The Gagne Era Should End

[BrewCrewForever]

I have been one of the biggest Gagne supporters on this board. But after the first Mets game and now last night. I can't defend him anymore. This is September and we are on the verge of the playoffs. We can't afford to have a pitcher with an ERA of almost 7 pitching for us in the 8th inning if close games. If Gagne pitches in another high leverage situation I might lose it. CC pitched masterful for 7 innings with very little run support and Gagne flushed it down the toilet with one batter. Sorry Eric, your dead to me.

 

My only hope is that Gallardo is healthy enough to pitch in the pen and can be our 8th inning guy to get to Torres. Then you have Mota/Riske/Shouse for the 6-7.

[jeffy]

I have been one of the biggest Gagne supporters on this board. But after the first Mets game and now last night. I can't defend him anymore. We can't afford to have a pitcher with an ERA of almost 7 pitching for us in the 8th inning if close games.

 

Since it is not Gagne deciding that he should pitch in those situations, is it not actually someone else that you can not defend?

[BrewCrewForever]

Since it is not Gagne deciding that he should pitch in those situations, is it not actually someone else that you can not defend?

I'm not a Yost defender if that is what you mean. He should never have Gagne pitching in those situations. But he does and Gagne just has not gotten the job done and every game is so important now that I can't defend his poor performances anymore.

[kalle8]

in the comments on the JS article a couple of days ago, there was this great quote:

"what's the french for turnbow?"

"gagnè"

[RockCoCougars]

If booing Gagne when he comes in from the bullpen has the same end result as booing Helms did on opening day.....gone at the end of the year - I'm all for it.

[JJHardy7]

AS ILuv pointed out, he deserves a lot of credit for not giving up the lead. Really gotta give Giles credit, the pitch he hit out was low and in...lefties often like it there, but it was not even a strike.

 

So we are still giving Gagne credit for sucking? I just don't get it. He deserves a lot of credit for convincing the Brewers to give him a $10 million contract. I'd be interested to know based on ERA (I know there are more stats than that, but this might make it simple) to see if Gagne is one of the most overpaid pitchers in baseball history. I'm going to guess he is, but maybe not on the top. Gagne is getting booed because Milwaukee fans feel he's had a crappy season and is way overpaid and it's something management flat out doesn't see. Does he deserve to be booed coming into the game? No, but at this point Brewers fans will boo and it should be expected -- even though that's sad.

[rotoherb]

I wouldn't have been booing Gagne if I was at the game, I would have been booing Ned for putting him in the game. Gagne can't help it if he's washed up and done. At some point Ned needs to think about using Torres for some two inning saves. If Torres is available to pitch two innings when the game goes extras then just put him in for the eighth. Don't do it every game, but for the next 21 games they need to have their best pitchers on the mound for as many innings as possible. It's to the point of the season where stuff like this needs to be considered.

[naivin]

When the alternatives for the innings he pitches are basically Mota or Riske, I think I might just have to continue to grit my teeth and hope for the best. Mota, Riske, an Shouse all have more IP then Gagne. Not sure simply letting Gagne rot for the rest of the year is a realistic option. You still have to get 27 outs, and to suggest that just giving those Gagne outs to those other guys is some sort of no-brainer tends to ignore the facts. How many times has the call gone up to DFA Mota? How many times has Melvin been criticized for signing Riske? How often are we reminded that Shouse should not face right handed hitters? Now we are asking to use those guys more?

 

Gallardo could provide an option - potentially to remove Villanueva from the long relief role (until then he is more valuable there) , but you aren't going to bring him in with men on base, nor do we have any idea how he will perform in a relief role. Gagne will continue to pitch because he has to. There simply doesn't appear to be many alternatives.

[BrewCrewForever]

If Gallardo is ready to go and is cleared I would LOVE to see him take over the 8th inning. Right now, that is my hope and dream.

[endaround]

No there are plenty of alternatives. Stetter is back with the team, Shouse can face lefties. Villaneuva has no need in long relief with McClung and DiFelice in the pen. Dillard deserves more of a chance.

[BrewCrewForever]

No there are plenty of alternatives. Stetter is back with the team, Shouse can face lefties. Villaneuva has no need in long relief with McClung and DiFelice in the pen. Dillard deserves more of a chance.

Yeah with DiFelice and McClung out there Villanueva should pitch in the 7th and 8th probably. No need for him to pitch more then 1 or 2 innings at a time anymore.

[LennyBrisco]

I wouldn't have been booing Gagne if I was at the game, I would have been booing Ned for putting him in the game. Gagne can't help it if he's washed up and done. At some point Ned needs to think about using Torres for some two inning saves. If Torres is available to pitch two innings when the game goes extras then just put him in for the eighth. Don't do it every game, but for the next 21 games they need to have their best pitchers on the mound for as many innings as possible. It's to the point of the season where stuff like this needs to be considered.

The reason Torres was able/available to pitch 2 innings was he had a very low pitch count after the first inning of work.

[JJHardy7]

When the alternatives for the innings he pitches are basically Mota or Riske, I think I might just have to continue to grit my teeth and hope for the best. Mota, Riske, an Shouse all have more IP then Gagne. Not sure simply letting Gagne rot for the rest of the year is a realistic option. You still have to get 27 outs, and to suggest that just giving those Gagne outs to those other guys is some sort of no-brainer tends to ignore the facts.

 

I think you may be tending to ignore the facts that the Brewers have more options than you listed. They've called up some pitchers that have all had the same amount of success as Gagne has had to a certain degree. I would much rather see a guy like Dillard than Gagne. Dillard's nasty sinker beats the garbage that Gagne throws. I think ignoring the pitchers called up who all have major league experience is what you and Yost seems to be doing. These guys aren't AA prospects who've never played. They've all played a bit in the majors and have played at a higher level of competition in AAA. Pitching Gagne right now is just because he's a $10 million man...plain and simple. If the Brewers are going for it, Gagne should be pitching in blowouts.

 

Gallardo would be nice, but there are already better pitchers on the staff than Gagne that aren't getting time. I know it's a risky thing to put in a younger guy in these situations, but who knows you may just find that Dillard steps up and does well. Dillard has the makeup to do it from my experience with him in Nashville.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Booing Gagne before he threw his first pitch...just brutal. Show some class. I always appreciated that our fans didn't act like east coast fans...plenty of passion minus the edge. Now it seems like people are just bitter. It's pathetic and embarrassing.

 

As for Gagne...the guy doesn't have the stuff he used to so it's all about location. If he's going to throw meatballs down the shoot...he's going to get pounded. It's tough to say he deserves the 8th inning role.

 

But who should be there? Outside of Torres, no one in the pen has shown the consistency one would like. Mota? He's been much better lately, but one month ago he was the one getting booed on his way to the mound. I'm not sure I trust him with that fragile psyche. Riske? He's been kind of disappointing and shaky himself. Shouse? Very valuable, but his skill is primarily as a LOOGY. Villy? Perhaps, but he threw the day before and wasn't available. His ability to go multiple innings makes it tough to pin him into the 8th role, but he's probably the best alternative option. Dillard, Stetter, etc...it's an awfully big step for these AAAA guys to the 8th inning role during a pennant chase.

 

I was ready to really rip Ned last night out of frustration, but considering the hand he's been dealt...it's not like he's got an obvious option. My guess is he moves Gagne out of the role after last night, but that may not be the end of our bullpen problems. If we were hitting the way we should...maybe this wouldn't be an issue.

[JJHardy7]

Dillard, Stetter, etc...it's an awfully big step for these AAAA guys to the 8th inning role during a pennant chase.

 

I hope you mean AAA and not AAAA. These guys aren't AAAA and they will most likely be on the Crew next year. I guess I don't agree with who else should we go with idea. Gagne is awful so because there aren't 'clear' options we go with the awful guy. That doesn't make any sense. Do you trust Gagne more than anyone else? I sure as hell don't and that's why there shouldn't be an 8th inning guy. Put in the best pitcher available and IMO Gagne is the worst pitcher on the team. He should never be in when the game is still somewhat up in the air.

 

I find it hard to believe that Gagne can face the 'pressure' of playing the worst team in the league better than any of the guys we called up. Why does Gagne continue to get support? He's the worst pitcher on the team and will go down on a nice list in the media of worst off-season signings. He won't be on the top of the list because of the one-year deal, but he will be on the list.

[pebadger]

I'm thinking the best alternative, given the Brewers roster, is to limit the high leverage situations as much as possible by scoring more runs when they are there to be scored.

[Postseason2006]

For those questioning Gagne hasn't done anything wrong? Let's see 10 million dollars with an ERA around 7 blowing the first game to start this losing streak and being a trainwreck of a signing? I liked him better on the DL, didn't that start our winning ways? You are dang right people should boo. We are on the verge of our first playoff appearance in 26 years and Gagne is the one of the main reasons we aren't in first place right now with the horrific attempts at closing and being te 8th inning guy. Did I mention he earns 10 million dollars? HE IS STEALING! If you did not do your job at work, would you get paid like that?

 

BTW, I suppose all of your were clapping when the inning was over, after he blew another lead? Why cos the inning was over.

[homer]

I was at the game last night and that's the loudest I've heard a Brewer booed at home in my 30+ years of watching baseball in Milwaukee. Why boo a guy before he even throws a pitch? That I will never understand. Booing after the homer was understandable. I thought the moron behind me was going to have a coronary - I sort of hoped he would because he was the most obnoxious person on earth. I've said it before - if a relief pitcher is going to get you so upset that you feel the need to cuss and swear in front of your family, find another hobby.

[owbc]

For those questioning Gagne hasn't done anything wrong? Let's see 10 million dollars with an ERA around 7 blowing the first game to start this losing streak and being a trainwreck of a signing? I liked him better on the DL, didn't that start our winning ways? You are dang right people should boo. We are on the verge of our first playoff appearance in 26 years and Gagne is the one of the main reasons we aren't in first place right now with the horrific attempts at closing and being te 8th inning guy. Did I mention he earns 10 million dollars? HE IS STEALING! If you did not do your job at work, would you get paid like that?

He is NOT stealing. The Brewers and him mutually agreed to a contract that pays him 10 million dollars. In fact, Gagne didn't come to the Brewers and demand 10 million dollars, the Brewers approached him as a free agent and offered him a contract, knowing fully that Gagne didn't perform in Boston last year. He's clearly not going to regain his old form, but that's not his fault.

[FidoMcCokefiend]

For those questioning Gagne hasn't done anything wrong? Let's see 10 million dollars with an ERA around 7 blowing the first game to start this losing streak and being a trainwreck of a signing? I liked him better on the DL, didn't that start our winning ways? You are dang right people should boo. We are on the verge of our first playoff appearance in 26 years and Gagne is the one of the main reasons we aren't in first place right now with the horrific attempts at closing and being te 8th inning guy. Did I mention he earns 10 million dollars? HE IS STEALING! If you did not do your job at work, would you get paid like that?

First of all, he's not stealing, that's silly. Second of all, Gagne has been relatively the same all year and Yost keeps going to him. If anyone deserves boos and scorn, it's the manager that keeps throwing him out there when games are still in the balance. I understand the frustration with Gagne, but he isn't holding a gun to Yost's head demanding to be pitched in 1 run games in September, just as he didn't hold a gun to Melvin's head and demand $10M.

 

Yost is the problem.

[datrain711]

For those questioning Gagne hasn't done anything wrong? Let's see 10 million dollars with an ERA around 7 blowing the first game to start this losing streak and being a trainwreck of a signing? I liked him better on the DL, didn't that start our winning ways? You are dang right people should boo.

BTW, I suppose all of your were clapping when the inning was over, after he blew another lead? Why cos the inning was over.

So are you there to hope the Brewers win or to boo the players you don't like. If you want the Brewers to win, I don't see how 30,000 people booing Gagne before he even throws a pitch is going to help the team. Gagne has been miserable, but it serves no purpose to boo him out of the park when he comes in to pitch during a critical situation. It was such a negatively tense moment in the park.

[BrewCityUnit]

I give Gagne a TON of credit for getting out of the 8th inning with the game still tied. Guys are going to give up home runs. I would rather have him serve up a solo shot then to come in and walk people. I just don't get why people get so worked up that he is making 10 million dollars this year. It is not your money paying him and its not like having Gagne on this team prevented us from signing any other free agent. We took a chance with him, he has had his moments.

 

Maybe if we can score more than 2 runs a game against the Padres we wouldn't even be talking about this.

[JJHardy7]

I give Gagne a TON of credit for getting out of the 8th inning with the game still tied. Guys are going to give up home runs.

 

Do you give him credit letting the game get tied up? It's comments like these I don't understand. Guys do give up home runs and give up runs, but not usually at the rate that Gagne has this year. His $10 million figure is HUGE because if he was making the minimum he would've been released a long, long time ago. I don't think he's stealing since he signed for the most money he could get, but that also ensured his roster spot for the year IMO.

[brewjihad]

Rotoworld's take on the situation:

"Sabathia was taken out of a 2-1 game after seven, and Eric Gagne immediately allowed a game-tying homer to Brian Giles to start the eighth. We can only figure that it slipped Ned Yost's mind that he now has two left-handed relievers in his pen. And that Gagne is terrible."

[BrewCrewForever]

Rotoworld's take seems right on actually.