Time to give Villanueva the 8th inning?

[JoeHova]

I know the timing of this could be a little better because CV has not looked great his last few outings, but I think the question can be asked. Here are the stats for all Brewer relievers who have thrown 20 or more innings of relief this year (stats through 9/1):

 

Salomon Torres 67.3 IP, 44 K, 26 BB, 2.54 ERA

Brian Shouse 47.3 IP, 32 K, 13 BB, 2.47 ERA

Guillermo Mota 47.7 IP, 43 K, 23 BB, 4.34 ERA

David Riske 41 IP, 26 K, 23 BB, 4.61 ERA

Eric Gagne 35.7 IP, 29 K, 19 BB, 6.81 ERA

Mitch Stetter 23 IP, 29 K, 16 BB, 2.74 ERA

Seth McClung 28.7 IP, 21 K, 21 BB, 5.02 ERA

Carlos Villanueva 44.7 IP, 48 K, 10 BB, 2.01 ERA

 

As you can see from the numbers, Carlos not only has the lowest relief ERA, he also has by far the best K/BB ratio and the 2nd best K rate. He's also pitched the 4th most innings and is only 3 innings away from being 2nd. Unfortunately, that month and a half of poor starting has dragged his numbers way down so it's not obvious he has been very good in relief. I realize the sample size is small, as it is for all relievers, and you can't just toss out the first month and a half, but I think it's clear that Carlos has earned a larger bullpen role down the stretch. I think he should pitch the 8th (not that I'm in favor of set roles, but Ned is). What do other people think?

[JohnBriggs12]

Well yesterday Yost pulled Villanueva out of the 6th even after he fanned Wright and brought in Shouse to face Delgado even though Villanueva has had success against lefties.

 

Between Riske, Gagne and Mota, generally at least one of them is in a good groove and that's the guy who should be getting the 8th. Mota has allowed 1 run since the All Star game. That's right, Mota has a post ASG ERA of 0.68. Why isn't he pitching the 8th?

[Brian the Automator]

Why Ned and Doug seem so anti-Dillard is beyond me. He got shelled in two games in a row back in JUNE, but has been really, really good in AAA ever since. Seems to me that he couldn't be worse or more inconsistent than Gagne.

[JoeHova]

I don't get why we or the Brewers still talk about Gagne. His ERA is 7 and there are a bunch of better options than him. He should be a mop up man. Do we really want to see him pitching to David Wright or Carlos Beltran in a close playoff game? I don't want to see that, at least.

 

Also, somewhat related to this, I see SI's John Donovan is in favor of CV being beaten up by Albert Pujols in order to show CV how to "respect the game". What a classless douche.

[dlk9s]

The only thing I don't like about putting CV in the setup role is that he is valuable as a long reliever.

[joepepsi]

CV has been their 2nd best relief pitcher all year. for some reason though, he seems to disappear for weeks at a time. I would only use him, Mota, or Shouse in the 8th. Riske has been really disappointing, imho. Seems like he is always one pitch away from giving up the game.

 

I pray each night Gagne will be left off the playoff roster.....

[dannyjnoonan]

Here is the ERA+ for our relievers:

1. Solomon Torres - 171

2. Brian Shouse (Lefties Only!) - 186

3. Mitch Stetter - 156

4. Mark Difelice - 110

5. Carlos Villanueva - 99

6.McLung - 95

7. Mota - 98

8. Riske - 94

9. Dillard - 80

10. Gagne - 70

 

I'd say Villanueva is a good call for the 8th. Gagne and Dillard should never be allowed to touch a baseball ever again. Ever.

[Brian the Automator]

Gagne and Dillard should never be allowed to touch a baseball ever again. Ever.

So Dillard has two bad outings and he "shouldn't be allowed to touch a baseball ever again"?

[2008 world champs]

I hate to say it but the 8th inning is going to be the roughest ride as Brewer fans. Most of our starters can give us 7 solid innings and Torres has been good in the 9th. I agree it should be a whose hot thing for the 8th. CV might not be much better of an option when the pressure cooker heats up.

[brewmann04]

I don't see any problem using Carlos their are long men now are McClung and Defelice .

I don't want to see Riske or Eric in the 8th inning role.

[biedergb]

Between Riske, Gagne and Mota, generally at least one of them is in a good groove and that's the guy who should be getting the 8th. Mota has allowed 1 run since the All Star game. That's right, Mota has a post ASG ERA of 0.68. Why isn't he pitching the 8th?

I've been wondering why Mota isn't pitching the 8th. He has been good recently, why not go with the hot hand. This is what Ned did with Gange, who was doing well in July/August with the exception of the bad outings in Cincy and vs the Nats. But since that outing vs the Nats he's seemed to lost his mojo. Maybe move him back to 6th/7th inning situations. Move Mota up. Keep Carlos in the mix, and Shouse for lefties. Avoid Riske for now, and try to rehab him a la Mota.

 

Ned will need to use Stetter, Dillard, McClung these last few weeks so that we can see if any is worthy of a playoff spot should an injury occur.

[davego]

I think Seth could take CV's current role. Mota for the 7th (I guess) and CV for the 8th. Stetter and Shouse as needed. Cross the fingers and away we go...

 

If/when the 'crew locks up the Wild Card, it will be interesting to see what starter is dispatched to the pen. Hope this will provide a 'playoff upgrade.'

[Chio151]

Easy answer: If Gagne blows the game, the press and fans blame Gagne. If Dillary blows the game, the press and fans blame Yost.

[Brian the Automator]

Let's not turn this into a pro/anti Ned thread, please.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

If CV could throw strikes on a consistant basis, that would be nice. It seems like he's always playing with fire, but his ability to strike batters out bails him out a lot. I also want to see what Dillard has in middle relief and if he does well, then I'd get him in that 8th inning spot. That's probably unlikely though.

[trwi7]

I don't get why we or the Brewers still talk about Gagne. His ERA is 7 and there are a bunch of better options than him. He should be a mop up man. Do we really want to see him pitching to David Wright or Carlos Beltran in a close playoff game? I don't want to see that, at least.

That's what I don't get. Yeah, he signed a $10 million contract, so what? He should pitch in big situations because of that? They're just compounding the problem at the expense of the team.

[TooLiveBrew]

So Dillard has two bad outings and he "shouldn't be allowed to touch a baseball ever again"?

 

Book it, bottom line. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/eyes.gif

 

 

Imo the problem is less that we need any one set RP for the 8th inning, and more that Eric Gagne needs to be used in lower-leverage situations. Ned had the ability to separate Mota from the high-leverage work earlier this season, so I am optimistic he can do so again with Gagne. Dillard not being used is insane at this point.

[JoeHova]

If CV could throw strikes on a consistant basis, that would be nice.

Carlos has walked 2 guys per 9 innings as a reliever this year. That is the best BB/9 of anybody in the pen. Even counting his time as a starter, he's walking 2.5 guys per 9, well below the league average of 3.4 per 9.

[Greg Vaughn]

JohnBriggs12[/b]]Well yesterday Yost pulled Villanueva out of the 6th even after he fanned Wright and brought in Shouse to face Delgado even though Villanueva has had success against lefties.

 

Between Riske, Gagne and Mota, generally at least one of them is in a good groove and that's the guy who should be getting the 8th. Mota has allowed 1 run since the All Star game. That's right, Mota has a post ASG ERA of 0.68. Why isn't he pitching the 8th?

Good god....when has Gagne been in a good groove? He has the 2nd worst ERA for relief pitchers in the majors with at least 30 innings pitched. He better not see a meaningful inning the rest of the year.

[Ennder]

Before last nights game Gagne had a .712 OPS against and a 3.97 ERA in his last 14 games so I can see where Ned thought he was in a groove. I still don't want to see him in the 8th or anything, but I at least 'get' why he earned that spot for a few games.

[trwi7]

Before last nights game Gagne had a .712 OPS against and a 3.97 ERA in his last 14 games so I can see where Ned thought he was in a groove. I still don't want to see him in the 8th or anything, but I at least 'get' why he earned that spot for a few games.

It hasn't just been for a few games though. Mota started to suck so Ned just put Gagne in the 8th inning role after he came off the DL. He hadn't really earned anything.

[logan82]

The only thing I don't like about putting CV in the setup role is that he is valuable as a long reliever.

That's what I think. Putting a guy who can go multiple innings in a setup or closer role seems wrong to me. Part of why I don't like Torres in the closer role.

[JoeHova]

That's what I think. Putting a guy who can go multiple innings in a setup or closer role seems wrong to me. Part of why I don't like Torres in the closer role.

But aren't we kind of past worrying about that? McClung or DiFelice can be the long guy if needed. If you are arguing that a good reliever who is pitching well should be left in for more than one inning, I couldn't agree more, but that's not how Ned rolls (or roles http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif ).

[logan82]

JoeHova wrote:

If you are arguing that a good reliever who is pitching well should be left in for more than one inning, I couldn't agree more, but that's not how Ned rolls (or roles http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif ).

I think you are wrong. Ned has left relievers who are pitching well out there for multiple innings.

[JoeHova]

I think you are wrong. Ned has left relievers who are pitching well out there for multiple innings.

I'm talking about the 8th and 9th though, not the 5th and 6th. How many times has he left the guy who pitched the 8th in for the 9th if it's a save situation? Not many, at least that I recall.