Sabathia No-Hitter Watch... Latest: CC no hitter scoring decision is upheld (reply #153)

[RoseBowlMtg]

Too bad osuniu! I was watching it with my family and am still sad. My kids were asking me if they were going to change it where I didn't have that answer. Every out the anticipation got better because we knew they "should" change it.

 

I am still baffled by Webb saying CC had to turn "all the way around" Everyone try this. CC's back was to first base, he needed to get his chest to SS to throw. Stand with your back to first and turn all the way around. It's just wrong. His reasoning for toughness is inaccurate. It was a quarter turn and not all the way around.

 

Spinning ball after 7 bounces when it didn't move direction? Come on.

[Bruce Ciskie]

Webb is an absolute idiot, or he's realized his mistake and is playing the CYA game at this point. You make the call.

 

If this call isn't reversed, it's worse than Webb's decision. There's a mechanism in place to reverse a poor judgment by the official scorer and get it right. No reason this shouldn't be done.

[IslandsAC]

I'm scared that this is distracting from the series with the Mets or the fact that the brewers have won 8 of 9 during the highest winning month in Brewer history.

 

I wish Sabathia would have fielded it cleanly (and then who knows what would have happened for the remainder of the game) but short of that, I would have rather LaRoche have lined a double to left so the uncertainty wouldn't be there.

 

Regardless of whether the scoring is overturned or not, I expect this game to have a special niche in MLB folk-lore.

[bball123h]

The no-hitter would have been awesome, but the moment is lost now, and I'd be shocked if they reverse it. That said, perhaps we could focus on the fact that we swept Pittsburgh in Pittsburgh, and are now 5.5 games up in the wild card, and are closing in on the Cubs. Good day to be a Brewer fan.

[endaround]

I don't buy that there was no pressure on after the "hit". If you were to have polled players from both teams during the game I'd wager 75% or greater were expecting an announcement to come down anytime that there was a scoring change.

[RoseBowlMtg]

Exactly endaround! Sure the excitement is lost but after CC's career it will show a no no. That is worth it in itself to make it right.

 

As for the extreme nature of the call, that should not matter. They should look at this like they looked at the over turned play earlier this year. You can't say yeah it was a bad call then not change it because of the attention.

 

The reasons continue to bother me. It was spinning. Does Webb really think if CC used his mitt the spin would have bothered him. It seems like he is using the bare hand as an excuse like that is the only way to make the play but that is not correct. That is the reason it was an error. Completely backward thinking.

 

To say he needed to turn all the way around when it is a quarter turn should be brought up to him. That is just so inaccurate it's weird.

[Fatter than Joey]

I agree with most that I would have scored that an error. On the other hand, I am constantly baffled by what is called an error and what is called a hit and I know we have players that have benefited, *cough*Weeks*cough* and should have much different defensive stats. Please understand, I am not commenting on "defensive stats" rather "official scorer inconsistency/sobriety".

 

At the end of the day, I am more pissed that CC didn't make that play cleanly. It sucks that our D continues to be a thorn for us. CC shouldn't be dependent on a scorer calling an "error his way" -- that seems a lot more weak to me, than bending over and making the play and getting the no-no that way. If that play was a slam-dunk for CC, we shouldn't be talking about it right now.

 

All I know for certain, is that Greg Aquino makes that play, he fields his position much better.

[jhart05]

Put me in the "it was not a hit" camp.

 

And I do think they will overturn it.

[SeriesFinale]

Wow, interesting: I watched until the top of the 8th and had no idea there was a hullabaloo about this. I'd assumed 1) that the call would be reversed and 2) that CC would give up another hit later--a no-no wasn't even on my mind at that point.

[Pioneers3]

IF CC makes the play is that play even on the Top 10? It is an easy play that pitchers make 95 out of 100 times...it was an error!

[kmcasper23]

Definitely an error. Someone who has done this for 20 years should know better than to call that a hit. Then he says that LaRoche was 2/3 of the way down the line? What replay was he watching? He wasn't even half way there yet when CC dropped it. The moment is lost even if they overturn it now. It should have been changed by the end of the inning and it wasn't. Typical homer scoring. Too bad.

[JJHardy7]

At the end of the day, I am more pissed that CC didn't make that play cleanly. It sucks that our D continues to be a thorn for us. CC shouldn't be dependent on a scorer calling an "error his way" -- that seems a lot more weak to me, than bending over and making the play and getting the no-no that way. If that play was a slam-dunk for CC, we shouldn't be talking about it right now.

 

Sorry FTJ, but at the end of the day if we're complaining about a one-hit shutout I'd love to see this thread every day. To me, it's really a moot point. What's the big deal? CC is not going to be in the record books? So what IMO he's already in the Brewers books for his performance this year. Our D is much improved over last year, but I do agree FTJ that some of these scoring things are not fair across the board.

[SeriesFinale]

Oh man, I just watched Ned's press conference on ESPN...how embarrassing. He can't control his emotions whatsoever; he's like a drunk Dad making a scene in public.

[razzzorsharp]

Oh man, I just watched Ned's press conference on ESPN...how embarrassing. He can't control his emotions whatsoever; he's like a drunk Dad making a scene in public.

Yeah I am sure CC is really embarassed that his manager is passionate about sticking up for him.

[holybannana]

Oh man, I just watched Ned's press conference on ESPN...how embarrassing. He can't control his emotions whatsoever; he's like a drunk Dad making a scene in public.

Totally disagree. He did what he had to do and let the media know they're pissed about the call. It's OK to be emotional up there. I grow tired of all the canned robot press conferences because coaches and managers are scared to make a scene with all the media coverage today.

 

Sticking up for your team and your player and for a moment like that is OK. It was a huge miscall and it ruined what should have been something those guys and these fans should remember forever.

 

He's pissed and he should be.

[Point Beer Is Best]

The biggest problem is going to be Bob Webb. He seems pretty certain that it was a hit and according to the yahoo article he is the one who needs to reverse the call.

This is untrue. After he submits the official score to the game (within 24 hours of its conclusion) a team may challenge the official score within 24 hours and the league president will determine if an error in judgment was made have the score card updated. So I believe this is in the Commish's hands...

The article that I read said that the league will only overturn a ruling if they find it to be fundamentally erroneous, which isn't the case here. If they feel that a judgment call should have gone the other way, they can merely suggest that the official scorer change his ruling. So if the article on the Brewers website is right, Webb is the only one who can change his own call in this situation.

 

From the article:

Under MLB rules, the official scorer is the only person that may change a judgment call within 24 hours of a game's conclusion. The league, after considering the evidence submitted by the Brewers, may request that the official scorer change a judgment call, but cannot force the scorer to change his ruling.

Only if the call is deemed "erroneous" may the league order a change in a judgment call.

Again, the league can't make the guy change his mind.

[dlk9s]

I have come up with an idea for what the Brewers should do if MLB rules that the play was an error, thus giving CC the no-hitter.

 

1) Before the decision comes down the league office, ask Bud or whoever to only announce the decision to a handful of Brewers brass. Do not leak it to the media, do not let it out of the league office.

 

2a) If it's not overturned, MLB can go ahead and make an announcement if they want.

 

2b) If it IS overturned in the next couple days, the Brewers should keep it hush-hush. Then, at the end of one of our wins this week (and I'm going to assume we'll win this week), have Yost or Mark A. make a big announcement to the fans AND players at Miller Park. This way, everyone's already happy that we won the game and then everyone can go nuts for CC's no-hitter. The players can celebrate on the field with CC, the fans can jump around, everyone can have fun.

 

Obviously, there are complications with this plan. Would MLB keep it quiet? Will MLB make a decision soon enough? When does the PA announcer tell everyone to remain in their seats at the end of the game? You don't want to put the gears in motion in the top of the 9th in a 3-2 game, only to have the other team come back and beat us, putting a big damper on the festivities. If you wait until right after the final out, a bunch of people may have already left.

 

I think, if something like this could be worked out, it would be fantastic.

[Fatter than Joey]

Sorry FTJ, but at the end of the day if we're complaining about a one-hit shutout I'd love to see this thread every day.

 

I am not complaining about CC at all -- I am OK that he misplayed that ball. He certainly has done many many more good things for the Brewers. CC pitched a gem. All I am saying is that CC had the chance to take the call away from the scorer by making the play cleanly in the first place.

 

Oh man, I just watched Ned's press conference on ESPN...how embarrassing. He can't control his emotions whatsoever; he's like a drunk Dad making a scene in public.

 

Yeah, I agree -- The Brewers got the chance to get the no-no, CC messed up. Oh well. Better start focusing on the Mets. I don't think CC needs to be stood up for here.

[holybannana]

Yeah, I agree -- The Brewers got the chance to get the no-no, CC messed up.

That's usually called an error in baseball.

[ILuvDaBush]

I was at the Bush game ALMOST no-hitter. I remember the disappointment of watching Overbay leg out a triple in an 8-0 game...and then almost losing the game. Put me down as being happy with the W. Better 8-0 shutout than 8-7 nail-biter that burns out your bullpen.

[lcbj68c]

SC guys said that they shouldn't change the call and said that he didn't have the weight of a no hitter on his shoulders.

 

I disagree with this sentiment. You could tell from about the 7th inning on that the Brewers were treating it as a no-hitter and had planned to appeal long before the game was over.

[Fatter than Joey]

That's usually called an error in baseball.

 

Sometimes. It's a judgement call, don't even pretend that errors/hits are called consistently as they should be. I see plays in every game that are ruled hits, that I would call errors.

 

I would agree that CC should have been given an error, but I also think the main culprit is CC for not making the play -- not the scorer.

[Point Beer Is Best]

I suggest you read the rule book then. And also read what you just typed. It is correct that the official scorer is the only person who can change the score within 24 hours of the fact but what does that leave for after that time? Once he submits it and a team challenges the rules state the league president has final say. Read the rules, man.

 

From 10.01 of the Official MLB Rules:

The League President, after considering the evidence submitted and any other evidence he wishes to consider, may request that the official scorer change a judgment call or, if the League President concludes that the judgment of the official scorer had been clearly erroneous, may order a change in a judgment call. No judgment decision shall be changed thereafter.

First, I think you could do without the tone. I was in no way calling you out, but telling me to "read the rules" and "read what I wrote" is a little condescending. I'm not sure why you're getting all defensive.

 

Back on point, what you highlighted from the rulebook and what I summarized from the article are the same thing. They can only force the scorer to change the call if it is found to be clearly erroneous, which I take to mean as a call that was completely blown. A judgment call, like the one that Webb made yesterday, can only be changed if the scorer decides to, perhaps at the suggestion of the league office. It all depends on how the league decides to classify it - clearly erroneous, or a missed judgment call.

 

 

(minor code repair --1992)

[1992casey]

holy bannana's post quoted above was hidden due to the combination of condescension and the monster-sized quote of a previous message. For what it's worth, his message is still available in PBIB's post above.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Lost in all this hullabaloo was how classy CC was after the game. He says he should have made the play and it doesn't matter because they won. Not even a hint of a gripe, just a big smile and a W. It's those moments that make it so easy to root for CC and this team. The vibe from these guys is terrific.

 

For me, I thought it was a borderline call that should have gone the Brewers way, but I will admit it was not a clear cut call. My beef is that if there is any question, the first hit call should go to the pitcher. They can always change it back later. Even if Webb thought it was a 70% chance it was an error...you gotta give the pitcher the benefit of the doubt. At this point, I'd rather they don't change it...Webb ruined the experience, and it would be just as controversial on the other end if he got it. Follow CC's lead and move on...get the wins and get in the playoffs.