Sabathia No-Hitter Watch... Latest: CC no hitter scoring decision is upheld (reply #153)

[TheCrew07]

I just read LaRoche's comment "I'm batting .160, I need all the hits I can get".... I was going to post my little conspiracy theory earlier, but I decided against it. However after reading that quote I think there might be something to this... The more I think about this play the more I wonder if it would have been a hit if say McLouth had hit that ball... my initial impression after the play was the kid is struggling and really needed that hit, and if I was thinking that, I wonder if the official scorer was as well?

[thablingster]

I'm guessing that played into it. LaRoche isn't exactly a speed burner, so if a guy like Morgan, McLouth, etc. hits that it is a more legitimate hit. I can see why it was called a hit because that is called a hit about 60-70% of the time anyway unless a guy like Johnny Estrada is running, it is just a shame it cost CC a no-no.

[adamb100]

http://digg.com/baseball/...abathia_What_do_you_think

 

Dig that up.

[dlk9s]

For those who are saying the scorer did not watch replays, he did watch them. Jim Powell said that Webb watched the replay several times and still ruled it a hit, saying it would have taken an "extraordinary effort" by CC to get LaRoche out. Powell called [expletive deleted by mod] on that (obviously) and said everyone else in the press box thought it was an error.

[bucks2281]

If anyone read the AP report, the reporter allegedly polled 8 reporters from Milwaukee and Pittsburgh who have covered MLB for 10+ years. 6/8 believed the scorer made the correct call.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap?gid=280831123

[ELCABALLO45]

I don't see why the Pirates are making a big deal out of this..

They went 7-21 in Aug. and are on a 10 game losing streak..

Im thinking a no hitter would really fire them up!

[holybannana]

The ESPN sports nation poll has about 66% of America believing the correct call was not made. That it indeed was an error and the hit should be replaced by an error with a no hitter being the byproduct of that scoring decision. Of course it's unscientific and irrelevant really. but it's one outlet that says a strong majority of people believe that the correct call wasn't made.

 

And it wasn't.

 

(For the record, every state believes the wrong call was made except Delaware). Even Pennsylvania believes an incorrect call was made.

[jeffh]

3100 people from Wisconsin have voted with a whopping 91% saying it was a bad call

[areacodes]

The biggest problem is going to be Bob Webb. He seems pretty certain that it was a hit and according to the yahoo article he is the one who needs to reverse the call.

However, according to baseball's rulebook, only the official scorer may change a judgment scoring call.

So if that is truly the case I can't see the decision being overturned. It seems like Mr. Webb has already gone into defensive mode and I can't see him changing his mind now even if everybody else in America disagrees with his call.

[holybannana]

From the official MLB rule book:

 

(a) The official scorer shall charge an error against any fielder:

(1) whose misplay (fumble, muff or wild throw) prolongs the time at bat of a batter, prolongs the presence on the bases of a runner or permits a runner to advance one or more bases, unless, in the judgment of the official scorer, such fielder deliberately permits a foul fly to fall safe with a runner on third base before two are out in order that the runner on third shall not score after the catch;

 

His fumble of the ball is an error by this definition. He fumbled the ball and that permitted a runner a base. The video clearly shows that if he picks that ball up it would be reasonable to believe he would make a throw to first with enough time. In the comments of the rule:

For example, the official scorer shall charge an infielder with an error when a ground ball passes to either side of such infielder if, in the official scorer's judgment, a fielder at that position making ordinary effort would have fielded such ground ball and retired a runner.

 

Considering that throw is easily made by MLB players it should be judged that it was an ordinary play he messed up. Mr Webb's argument was that it was an extraordinary play he was trying to make.

 

Would it have been extraordinary if CC picks that ball up and throws it to first in time? I think not as I've seen that play made countless times. It was an error because he fielded it wrong by trying to use his hand and not his glove thus creating a fumbling of the ball. If he fields that ball he would be expected to make the throw. If he uses his glove it would be expected that he routinely fields that ball.

[holybannana]

The biggest problem is going to be Bob Webb. He seems pretty certain that it was a hit and according to the yahoo article he is the one who needs to reverse the call.

This is untrue. After he submits the official score to the game (within 24 hours of its conclusion) a team may challenge the official score within 24 hours and the league president will determine if an error in judgment was made have the score card updated. So I believe this is in the Commish's hands...

[brewtank34]

So I believe this is in the Commish's hands...

Gotta love having Bud Selig calling that one for his old team... Come on Bud! Give it to us. Pretty Please?

 

 

(pared back nested quote, cut out excessive punctuation --1992)

[GB12]

This is untrue. After he submits the official score to the game (within 24 hours of its conclusion) a team may challenge the official score within 24 hours and the league president will determine if an error in judgment was made have the score card updated. So I believe this is in the Commish's hands...

I like our chances if that's the case.

[jason21nl]

SC guys said that they shouldn't change the call and said that he didn't have the weight of a no hitter on his shoulders.

 

I don't think that its going to be over turned.

[sbrylski]

I also predict it will not get overturned. I'm 50/50 on whether or not I think it should be.

[azcheesehead]

I don't think what SC guys think has any bearing. They're also the same hacks that predicted the Cardinals to win the Wild Card a few months back because the Brewers aren't consistent enough to win it. They're the epitome of genius.

[thablingster]

FWIW, John Kruk thinks it should be overturned.

 

I am fairly sure they won't overturn it, but you never know.

[T B0NE 10]

I watched it again and from the angle showing the runner...that is definitely not a hit

[stoutdude04]

I thought SC actually did a decent job showing where Laroche was when CC had a chance to first pick up the ball. He appeared to MAYBE be 50% down the line. Maybe even less. I think it was an error, I also think it will not be overturned.

[Mike2k33]

I don't care what MLB says in the end, what I saw today was a no-hitter. The pitcher did not give up, in my opinion, a hit through nine innings. The play in question was a check swing dribbler back to the mound which the pitcher clearly muffed while the runner was at most half way down the line. I amazingly agreed with Bill on the FSN broadcast today. That was a weak call by the official scorer.

[phxMILWfan]

(For the record, every state believes the wrong call was made except Delaware). Even Pennsylvania believes an incorrect call was made.

Anyone else catch that the states with the lowest percent believing it was an error were Illinois and Missouri along with Pennsylvania? Cubs and Cards fans voting that they believe it was a hit just to keep the Brewers from having a no hitter. My first reaction was that, that is really crappy. Then I realized if it was Zambrano I'd say it was a hit to just to get under the skin of Cubs fans.

 

 

(pared back quote --1992)

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

Call me a party pooper, but count me in the ranks of those who think that his pitching/Pittsburgh's offense would have played out differently if, in fact, a no-hitter was still on the table...

 

So I wouldn't overturn it - heck, the way he's pitching, he might go out and get a proper one next time...

 

Bill

[RyDogg66]

SC guys said that they shouldn't change the call and said that he didn't have the weight of a no hitter on his shoulders.

 

I don't think that its going to be over turned.

I agree. I dont think he should be awarded a no-hitter. It was a lousy call, but so what.

[RoseBowlMtg]

My problems with Webb is his explanation:

 

"It was coming off the bat; it was a spinning ball, to the right of a left-handed pitcher."

 

spinning ball? It was a jam job on a RH batter where the ball went to the left side. It bounced once on the dirt and 6 times on the grass with absolutely no deviation in direction. If CC uses the mitt it's an easy play

 

Left-handed pitcher? That is a plus since CC falls off to the 3rd base side.

 

"In my opinion, it's not an ordinary play to make. It was difficult both because of the spin and because he has to make the play and turn completely around."

 

His reasoning is because of the spin? No spin

 

He has to turn all the way around? What does that mean? CC's back is to 1st base and you see him do the quick footwork where he turns a quarter with his chest to SS to make the throw. Turn all the way around is a reason when his chest turned a quarter turn.

 

Very weak!

[buckeyesteve]

My one and only Brewers game I've had a chance to see in Pittsburgh(or anywhere for that matter) this year and I get robbed of seeing one of the greatest spectacles in all of sports. There is something quite odd(and very cool) when you have the opposing teams fans rooting for the other team - and you can bet a million bucks that the Bucoo's fans would have done just that.

 

I still can't believe it.

 

Now that said, I'm not so sure switching the outcome would do anything but make me even more sad to have (have not) witnessed the no-hitter. I'd rather they just keep it as is. I do have to say when I first saw it after hearing all the hubub I didn't see what it was all about. Looked like a fair call to me. eh.

 

If it does get changed, do they have a fake celebratory pre game rush of the field and re-enact the last out of the game?!?