Gustav / Ike

[owbc]

To those who have suggested moving New Orleans:

 

I don't think you have actually been to New Orleans (but I recommend you go). I used to think the same thing, but then I went there and saw the history, culture, and especially the personality of the city that is unique to the United States. New Orleans isn't like the rest of America--it has resisted the homogeneous culture that many of us now live in. I know the crime was bad and there are a number of deep issues, but the spirit of the place stood out more than anything else.

 

Also, as pointed out, the Netherlands does just fine below sea level. New Orleans could as well--if there wasn't an incompetent federal government getting in the way of the city/state's plans to make levees that actually work. When I was down there in the spring, I saw that they basically just rebuilt the levees where they broke and added a few more pumps. I doubt Gustav will be as bad as Katrina, but if parts of the city flood it won't shock me. The good news is that the return rate in the lower 9th is less than 10% and most of the new homes that have been built have been raised up 5+ feet in order to prevent a repeat.

 

They have basically wasted the money rebuilding the levees--and the figure is in the billions. Why not just spend a little more now to save future generations the hassle of rebuilding?

 

As for the actual storm, it still hasn't made that predicted jog to the left--hopefully it will soon. Hanna won't be nearly as bad, it is being sheared by Gustav right now and will strengthen once Gustav goes away, but will never come close to the massive size/strength of Gustav.

[homer]

I"ve been to New Orleans over a dozen times and I'm sure that the 'culture' (along with the massive cost) is a big reason moving the city will never happen.

 

And the local government of New Orleans (and historically, the state government of Louisiana) has been about as corrupt as any in the history of the United States. While other gulf port cities thrived, New Orleans went in the tank in the late 60's. I feel bad for the citizens that are forced to live with such incompetant leadership.

[dadofandrew]

The feds should not build levees and dams for LA...that's city and state stuff, i would say. It was nice of them to rebuild what they did, but you could say that was important to security and such, I would say.

 

I don't drink, so I think NO's appeal would be lost on me...it'd be like driving 16 hours to go to the world's biggest salad bar.

[homer]

I don't drink, so I think NO's appeal would be lost on me...it'd be like driving 16 hours to go to the world's biggest salad bar.

You should maybe read a guide book on NOLA before pigeonholing it as a year round Mardi Gras.

[TheCrew07]

A case can be made that NO was the most poorly designed city in North America, and maybe the world. Even though Venice is still sinking at least the people of Venice had sense enough to build on stilts. I'm not sure how NO made it as long as it did, most of the other poorly designed gulf cities were wiped out over time. I'm a History Channel nerd and I've seen the documentaries on most of the world's greatest natural disasters more times than I care to mention. There is no stopping nature, we're all at her mercy, no matter what part of the world we live in, everyone should respect the power of nature. It doesn't matter if it's flood, fire, earthquake, hurricane, tornado, tsunami, volcano... most people live in denial, the "it won't happen to me" attitude. Tsunami's are a great example, just in the US Hawaii and Alaska have been repeatedly hit by Tsunami's, in fact the height of the wave that hit the Alaskan coast in 1958 was over 1700 feet. However because both states are sparsely populated, the death tolls were relatively low, and the locations remote most people in this country and around the world didn't really have enough respect for their power. It took loss of life on an unprecedented scale to get the global community to rethink how great the threat of a tsunami is. Even in the midwest where we think we're relatively shielded from the worst natural disasters, we think we mostly have to worry about flooding and tornados, we'll get ours eventually, it's only a matter of time.

Getting back to my example, Galvenston was already above see level before the hurricane leveled the town. After the Hurricane the entire island was raised up to 17 feet, a sea wall was added, and stil the city never fully recovered. Indianola was actually rebuilt once, but abandoned after being destoryed a second time. Both Galvenston and Indianola were the primary ports in Texas follwing the Civil War, but I doubt many people have heard of either now. I feel the same way about NO, it's value was mostly cultural, the city while it will survive, it will never be the same, and rightly so. There's sadness there to be sure, as in some respects it was the end of an era. Time will march on, but trying to save a city that exists below sea level from natural events seems like a fruitless endeavor to me.

Comparing NO to the Netherlands is apples to oranges. The Netherlands is relatively shielded from Atlantic storms at the south end of the North Sea, and their whole modern history and infastructure has evolved around keeping the see at bay. It's very interesting, or at least to me, how they manage to keep the country dry, it started by windmills pumping from one pool, to the next, to the next, and finally ending up dumping the water in a lake or river. I thought the windmills were neat as a kid but never understood the significance. The Netherlands gets bad storms to be sure, but the surges and sustained winds really don't compare with Category 3 and 4 Hurricanes, with notable exception of 1953 (a perfect storm at high tide raised sea level 5.6 meters over the mean). Even so the country has repeatedly flooded and cities have been destroyed, most recently in 1953 as I noted earlier. As a side note there was a fascinating story about a mayor or governor that ordered a freighter to beach itself against a hole in the dike.. the beaching actually worked saving coutnless lives, but a quick google search for a link came up emtpy, I'm unable to remember the names involved and it's late. At any rate, for the country to exist they've had to make flood control their #1 priority. The storm surge in 1953 at high tide was equivilent of a Category 5 hurricane, when Katrina made landfall on the continental US it was only a Category 3... there is no such need for the US to continually rebuild/reinforce NO, the citie's commercial and strategic value is minimal, and has been since the turn of the century. One could make a good case that the city has been on the decline since the Civil War... While the citie's history and culture is important and should be preserved within reason, what's reasonable is open to debate. I personally think the whole thing has been handled foolishly, and as the saying goes, "those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it".

I didn't read the post in question the same way Joe did, I read it as a matter of fact of statement regarding the reality of the aftermath of Katrina, not an indictment of an entire race(s). I'm unsure how the discussion can continue without crossing the line here at BF.net, that topic belongs on the political forum.

[Pedro]

We've got a condo in the French Quarter and are supposed to be there in two weeks. We were there last (except for a brief business trip) two weeks before Katrina hit. I am so looking forward to going back; while there has always been much of New Orleans that I don't care for (Bourbon Street for one), I've been drawn to the history, music, food and people since I first visited in 1990.

 

Sitting here at one in the morning tracking the storm is sadly reminiscent of 2005...I pray it doesn't have the same impact.

[M Skjellyfetti]

However, it is often portrayed that the area "still has not recovered"...well, it has, it's just lots of folks decided living in a high risk area was dumb, so they chose to go elsewhere.

 

I'm sorry, but that's an incredibly ignorant and incorrect statement. Many houses still are getting repaired as we speak (well, not so much right now, but before Gustav got in the way and work will resume in the near future, I'm sure). Particularly the poorer neighborhoods still have a long way to go, and that's not because people decided to go elsewhere.

 

As for Gustav, it looks like the damage was pretty bad throughout the entire state with the massive power outages and whatnot, but it's good to see that the massive evacuation plan seemed to work out well. We'll see how long it takes to get all the power back throughout the city. Original word from electric companies was 4-6 weeks before all power is restored, but they're working to get it taken care of much faster than that.

[owbc]

I'm glad that the levees held, but to say that the city is any safer than it was 3 years ago is terribly ignorant. There's a reason why they order the huge evacuations and why they will continue to do so in the future: the levees are incapable of withstanding a direct hit from a major hurricane. Gustav was a Category 2 and it made a glancing blow. Despite that, there was still water over topping the levees and there were still major concerns that some of them would fail, forcing the National Guard to reinforce them with sandbags. That's right--sandbags vs. a hurricane.

 

Unfortunately, this ignorance is going to eventually result in the city being flooded worse than Katrina--with the people of the city once again being the victims while the wealthy sit on higher ground and the politicians bicker about who blame while the true villains are long gone. From what I saw, most people who rebuilt had their homes raised high enough to avoid the water, but it doesn't change the fact that the entire city is extremely vulnerable to a direct hit from any type of tropical system--even TS Fay would have caused a disaster with all that rainfall.

 

Ray Nagin actually seems to have some common sense this time, but it doesn't change the fact that many politicians seem to consider this a success. The next time, they will be lucky to get a 75% evacuation rate due to the false sense of security that is being propagated through the media.

 

Meanwhile, Hanna shouldn't be too big of a deal, but Hurricane Ike is projected to be near Miami 5-6 days out.

[jaybird2001wi]

Well, the remnants of Gustav have made its way to the Midwest. We could be due for some heavy downpours tomorrow (Thursday) and the radar looks like most of it will hit us.

[lcbj68c]

Ike went to Cat 4 overnight

[TheCrew07]

In sort of an ironic twist it looks like Galveston is going to get smacked by Ike, I was just watching the footage on CNN, all I can say is "Wow". I jinxed them by bringing up the 1900 Hurricane...

[craigharmann]

Galveston is already having some pretty strong waves overtopping the seawall. The more I'm watching, the more I'm thinking this is going to be bad. As I told my wife earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if by Monday, gas is over $4.00 a gallon, because in the Houston/Beaumont/Port Arthur area there are a lot of refineries. 30% of the US gas is refined there, if I remember the stat I heard before correctly.

[lcbj68c]

Galveston is already having some pretty strong waves overtopping the seawall. The more I'm watching, the more I'm thinking this is going to be bad. As I told my wife earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if by Monday, gas is over $4.00 a gallon, because in the Houston/Beaumont/Port Arthur area there are a lot of refineries. 30% of the US gas is refined there, if I remember the stat I heard before correctly.

LOL, I paid $4.03 today. My family in Palestine is very worried, as they are going to be on the dirty side.

[craigharmann]

LOL, I paid $4.03 today. My family in Palestine is very worried, as they are going to be on the dirty side.

Sorry, I just paid $3.43 at Sam's Club, but a Valero not too far away was at $3.59.

[tristarscoop]

It's 3.99 all over Milwaukee today.

[PlayerHader]

Sitting at 3.79 at one stop in Wausau tonight, but I was told that it had jumped to 3.99 most places.

 

Did hurricanes have this kind of effect on prices 10 years ago? I'm kind of young, but before Katrina I don't really remember this being such an issue.

[craigharmann]

40% of the residents of Galveston didn't evacuate. There is already flooding and the worst hasn't hit yet. In the morning Galveston may not look like it did 24 hours ago. I hope that's not the case, but it doesn't look good. I just hope and pray that people are safe and that the death toll is minimal, if none at all.

[PeaveyFury]

Gas up to 3.75 from 3.61 in the Madison area today. Word is that half of the refineries in Texas are/will be shut down because of Ike at this point.

[craigharmann]

A reporter on Fox News said that he was told by the mayor that if the power goes out in Houston, it may be up to 2 weeks before power is back on. Also, they mentioned a gas station in Tennessee is selling gas for over $7 a gallon, Orlando area gas stations are over $5 per gallon, and wholesale gas prices along the gulf coast are over $5 per gallon. It's gonna get expensive for gas, no doubt about it.

[PeaveyFury]

Also, they mentioned a gas station in Tennessee is selling gas for over $7 a gallon

 

I remember a ton of that stuff around Katrina, and remember a ton of fines/closings after being reprimanded for gouging a few months later.

[PlayerHader]

Yeah, read on Drudge that they will be looking into gouging in FL where prices were up around 5.50 in places. An official said there is no shortages and that "millions of gallons" of gasoline are available.

[bullox]

With oil right around $100/barrel, these prices really suck. That lower price is not being passed on to the consumer.