Third Base options for the rest of 2008

[DougJones43]

Okay, the last thread about this topic was locked - but this is still something that I think is a big deal and needs to be talked about. Therefore, I think it's time to start a new discussion.

 

First issue. What is the deal with Russell Branyan? I haven't heard much about him lately. The whole thing has been a bit peculiar, to say the least. The guy rakes at Triple-A, rakes for the Brewers (not to mention his call-up coincided with the turn-a-round of the Brewers offensive, and overall, fortunes). With an OPS of .928, he suddenly stops playing. Nothing is said about it. No real inquiries from the media. Then he gets hurt, and most people just act as though his batting practice injury somehow retroactively explains his benching that came way before. What the heck is going on? What's his status now? Is he done for the year? Is he somehow in the doghouse with Brewer management? Maybe I just missed the updates, but I'm curious.

 

Second, is the club really okay playing out the rest of the pennant race with Counsell as the primary 3B? There has to be other options. Hall has been terrible. Why wasn't a waiver type deal attempted? It seems like it shouldn't have been that difficult to get somebody on the team that can beat Counsell's .649 OPS. Hell, I can't believe I'm gonna say this, but David Bell circa 2006 might look pretty good right now...

 

Counsell has been a regular in the lineup since late July, so it sure appears as though there was plenty of time to do something about it. I find the idea of Counsell getting this much playing time pretty unsettling with a slim wildcard lead.

[ILuvDaBush]

After tonight's 3-5 (both the score for the Brewz tonight and tonight's line for Mat Gamel), you would hope Mat will be a Sep. 1 call-up. They can always play the "late-inning sub" game and his bat would probably invigorate this lineup as much as the Shaded One's presence did.

[trwi7]

I would love to see Gamel in to start the games and then taken out for defense in close games if they aren't comfortable with it. Of course I don't think Ned would do that. He's in love with Counsell and all of his "intangibles and "the little things that don't show up in the box score" to not play him. Which is sad.

[endaround]

I'm afraid Branyan is stuck on the DL until the 1st because they are afraid to send Nix down because they might lose him. Lets be honest as soon as Braun returned, Dillon should have been up otherwise.

[BrewCrewForever]

I'm concerned about 3B, but not as much as I am about 2B if Durham doesn't get some more starts.

 

It would be sweet to see Gamel get the call up and actually get some starts against RHP. And I totally agree with pulling him late for Counsell.

[dlk9s]

Keep in mind that Branyan had been hitting pretty poorly for a while since his blazing start. (Arbitrary date range coming up...) Since the start of July, he was hitting .209/.286/.341/.627. Yes, I know Counsell has been as bad or worse.

 

The best option is probably a simple Hall/Counsell platoon and honestly, I'd lean towards playing Counsell more because of his defense. While I'm excited to see Gamel some day, I just don't think giving him significant time in a playoff chase, especially with his Roger Dorn defensive ability, is that good of an idea.

[jason21nl]

I was listening to the game on the radio a week or so ago and Ueck and Jim were talking about Branyan saying how he tore his oblique muscle from the bone and he was told not do do any sort of activities.

[Fatter than Joey]

First issue. What is the deal with Russell Branyan?

 

Honestly, I think Ned hates Branyan, or what he brings to the table. I am sure he blew out his oblique and is probably done for the year, Ned will justify playing Counsell with defense and "hitting for contact".

 

Second, is the club really okay playing out the rest of the pennant race with Counsell as the primary 3B?

 

I think there is some sort of ironic twist in the idea that once Braun hit the bigs last year, we would never ever ever ever see Counsell starting at 3b again. Oops.

 

Lets be honest as soon as Braun returned, Dillon should have been up otherwise.

 

That's what I said. I thought Dillon over Counsell was a better upgrade compared to any upgrade Nix would have added to Kapler.

 

I'd just as soon see Hall get all the starts at 3b here on out.

[joepepsi]

Keep in mind that Branyan had been hitting pretty poorly for a while since his blazing start. (Arbitrary date range coming up...) Since the start of July, he was hitting .209/.286/.341/.627. Yes, I know Counsell has been as bad or worse.

Actually, since the All Star break he was hitting like this:.280/.379/.520 .899 OPS. Of course that's only covering 29 plate appearances because Nedly hates him. Basically he had a horrible stretch the first 12 days of July, then went right back to being the stud he had been all year. Had his name been Hall, Counsell, Hardy, or Cameron, Nedly would have let Branyan "play through" the slump. But since it was Russell the Muscle, the kind of player who cheats by only hitting home runs and doesn't but or hit behind the runner like the way the game is supposed to be played, he was banished.

 

He should be on the team next year but he won't be. Hall and Counsell should be off the team next year, but they will be.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

If somebody can prove that Ned Yost hates Russell Branyan, I'd like to see it. Sure, he's not playing him, but he might actually have been hurt! Branyan was consitantly used as our LH power bat off the bench so if Yost hated him that much he wouldn't have played him at all.

 

I wouldn't mind going with Gamel to see what he's got, but I'd defninitely get Counsell in there after the 7th inning with a marginal lead.

[rluzinski]

O, it will be the current arrangement until the end. I'm sure Yost has been tickled pink with Counsell's play over the last month, plus. Take last night for example. Did you see how fast counsell ran to 1B, while losing a foot race to the bag? That kind of stuff doesn't show up in the boxscore.

 

If the Brewers do make the playoffs, I simply can't WAIT for the articles and network attention Counsell is going to get. Leading yet another team to the playoffs!

[Fatter than Joey]

If somebody can prove that Ned Yost hates Russell Branyan, I'd like to see it.

 

Craig Counsell getting your job is proof your boss doesn't like you.

 

Sure, he's not playing him, but he might actually have been hurt!

 

He wasn't hurt until he went on the DL.

[dadofandrew]

I would say we're likely to see either the hot hand or a continued platoon, based on whether or not anyone gets a hot hand.

[Tbadder]

I just wish they'd be forthcoming with Branyan's status. Why are the Brewers so tight-lipped about injuries? They're almost paranoid about giving fans information.

 

I'd stick Weeks at third and call up our 7' 4" 1st baseman.

 

Seriously though, whatta ya goin' do when the boss likes bad players? Counsell it is.

[DonMoney4Mgr]

I would love to see Gamel in to start the games and then taken out for defense in close games if they aren't comfortable with it. Of course I don't think Ned would do that. He's in love with Counsell and all of his "intangibles and "the little things that don't show up in the box score" to not play him. Which is sad.

I would of wrote my own post, but this is exactly what I would of said. I agree 100%.

[wibadgers23]

I would love to see Gamel in to start the games and then taken out for defense in close games if they aren't comfortable with it. Of course I don't think Ned would do that. He's in love with Counsell and all of his "intangibles and "the little things that don't show up in the box score" to not play him. Which is sad.

I'm completely with you. And I agree, there's no way Yost and company is gonna start Gamel on a regular basis. It's gonna be Counsell until the end.

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

Our only hope for a Counsell start-free playoff run is probably a Sept. call-up for Gamel (fairly likely), coupled with an insanely hot run of hitting in whatever limited action he sees (less so) and no defensive miscues if he gets any early action at all at 3B (now I'm feeling like a bit of a dreamer), resulting in a "he forced his way into the lineup" type scenario for the last week and a half or so (Yost bench Counsell? Is that a flying pig?), followed by even more insanely hot hitting and mistake-free defense (might as well buy a lotto ticket).

 

My gut says that Branyan's pre-injury benching is a strong clue he won't be back, even if healthy.

 

Hall's not going to suddenly earn his way out of the platoon and into the regular lineup, because single season splits are all Yost has ever cared about, and there is just no way Hall will get enough PA against RHP to raise his .166 AVG against them far enough for Yost to believe that he can hit them again.

[lukevan]

I wouldn't mind seeing what Hall can do for the rest of the season, honestly. At least Billy has some upside if he gets hot, Counsell just can't hit.

[sargennm]

He was never benched. Go back and look at the box scores and who the Brewers were facing at the end and early August. A ton of left-handed pitchers. Also, Hall got occasional starts against righty's up until Branyan's injury, probably because he was hitting decent for a week or so following the St. Louis series. Then as it got closer to Branyan's DL stint, Counsell and Russell were splitting time a little more, probably because Yost likes having Counsell on the field or in the lineup. I get that everyone in here HATES the idea of Counsell as the regular 3B, so do I. But the bench guys do need occasional starts, and that's what he was getting before Branyan's injury. There's zero evidence Russell was in Yost's doghouse. I have a good feeling that if he's healthy 3TO will get the majority of starts against RHP when he returns. But like Durham at 2B, let's remember Russell isn't exactly a HOF player. He's very good against righties and has a good on base. He should start more against them, but it's not like we're adding another Braun or Fielder to the lineup or a golden glove in the infield.

[1992casey]

The last I heard was Branyan's injury was significant enough that he wasn't able to do anything baseball-related at all. I think this came from a Trenni report.

[TooLiveBrew]

Crap -- I'd heard that Russ's injury was quite serious too. I was just hoping I was remebering incorrectly.

[Fatter than Joey]

But the bench guys do need occasional starts, and that's what he was getting before Branyan's injury.

 

Counsell got 15 starts in August and only missed 4 of the Brewers games.

 

Branyan went on the DL on Aug. 14th, up until that time, he had 2 starts in August, Counsell had 9.

 

I have a good feeling that if he's healthy 3TO will get the majority of starts against RHP when he returns.

 

I think you are 100% wrong -- I hope you are right though.

 

But like Durham at 2B, let's remember Russell isn't exactly a HOF player. He's very good against righties and has a good on base. He should start more against them, but it's not like we're adding another Braun or Fielder to the lineup or a golden glove in the infield.

 

As said many times before Counsell's glove at 3b does not make up for the huge OPS difference.

[joepepsi]

O, it will be the current arrangement until the end. I'm sure Yost has been tickled pink with Counsell's play over the last month, plus. Take last night for example. Did you see how fast counsell ran to 1B, while losing a foot race to the bag? That kind of stuff doesn't show up in the boxscore.

 

If the Brewers do make the playoffs, I simply can't WAIT for the articles and network attention Counsell is going to get. Leading yet another team to the playoffs!

He will be our own little David Eckstein. If they make the playoffs, at some point one Tim McCarver is going to say the team winning pct is better since Counsell started playing 3B regularly. They'll show highlights of his previous World Series play every night.

 

But like Durham at 2B, let's remember Russell isn't exactly a HOF player.

 

Not to hijack the topic but Durham is a borderline HOF player: 2000+ hits, 400+ doubles, nearly 200 home runs. Compared to the 2 baggers in the HOF, that's not too shabby at all.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Craig Counsell getting your job is proof your boss doesn't like you.

 

Actually it isn't. Branyan might actually be injured.

[sargennm]

But like Durham at 2B, let's remember Russell isn't exactly a HOF player. He's very good against righties and has a good on base. He should start more against them, but it's not like we're adding another Braun or Fielder to the lineup or a golden glove in the infield.

 

As said many times before Counsell's glove at 3b does not make up for the huge OPS difference.

Apparently I did a bad job crafting that last sentence. I realize that Durham has been quite good in his career, but he's on the downside now, I think we could all agree on that. And I wasn't trying to imply that Counsell is a better option than Branyan - even defenisvely. He's not. What I was trying to say is that it's not like we're getting an MVP calibar player with Branyan in the lineup. Sometimes I think the Russell man love goes a little overboard here.