Hardy for Matt Cain?; Latest -- Gammons reports Hardy AND Fielder for Cain? (reply #52)

[dhoffman19]

"The answer to your question why Fielder has a shift. That is an easy question to answer it is because he bats left handed. Nearly every single left handed hitter has an infield shift like that. Most of the balls hit by a left handed batter go to the right side of the infield when they hit a ground ball. If you want proof of this look at Berkman, Ortiz, and Howard. They all have the same pattern as Fielder has. Nearly all left handed batters have the same pattern for outs to the right side of the infield and that is why teams shift to the right when playing these hitters."

 

 

 

Wait, are you saying that teams put on that shift for nearly all left handed hitters?

[nate82]

Wait, are you saying that teams put on that shift for nearly all left handed hitters?

Yes nearly all meaning not everyone but almost everyone. Teams are not going to do it against a hitter who is a slap hitter batting left handed because as you can see with Counsell and Fukudome they don't follow the normal left handed hitter philosophy. To break it down even more this happens more with power hitting lefties more than your average lefty.

 

Adam Dunn gets the shift a lot also. Not all teams do the shift though I know a year ago a team refused to do the shift against Prince and it ended up hurting them a couple of times.

[ILuvDaBush]

Also when discussing Matt Cain, keep in mind that he gets to pitch all of his home games at AT&T and a third of his interdivision road games at Petco. Now you can argue that he also has to pitch at Coors for a third, but the entire division is subpar offensively (at least until the Baby Snakes mature). Again, I say the only pitcher that I would deal Fielder for is the King. Outside of Felix, I don't see how you could trade him when there is no suitable replacement in the cleanup spot.

[RyDogg66]

Dodger Stadium isnt exactly a hitters paradise either.

[kramnoj]

A stat like ERA+ takes park factors into account. Cain is a #2 pitcher who throws 190+ IP. His k/BB isn't dominating, but his results have been good.

[Blancofan1]

While I like the idea of trading one or the other of Prince or JJ, preferably Prince, for Cain, I really hope Gammons was way off base when he mentioned both guys going for Cain. Just way to much to give up for a #2/3 pitcher. Plus how much do we know about Cain's health? I know he has pitched over 190 innings the last 3 years, but from everything that I've read about Bochy, he doesn't treat pitchers very well. Lincecum and Cain are ranked first and fifth in PAP points per Baseball Prospectus.

Sidenote---I really can't believe how Bochy has been running Lincecum out the past month or so. Trying to win the Cy Young is one thing but his pitch counts lately have been ridiculos!!!

[smetana34]

Exactly. This all proves my point. What i was trying to say was, he doesnt use the opposite field as well as one poster tried to say by stating, fielder takes what the pitcher gives him

[paulmolitor4]

While I like the idea of trading one or the other of Prince or JJ, preferably Prince, for Cain, I really hope Gammons was way off base when he mentioned both guys going for Cain. Just way to much to give up for a #2/3 pitcher. Plus how much do we know about Cain's health? I know he has pitched over 190 innings the last 3 years, but from everything that I've read about Bochy, he doesn't treat pitchers very well. Lincecum and Cain are ranked first and fifth in PAP points per Baseball Prospectus.

Sidenote---I really can't believe how Bochy has been running Lincecum out the past month or so. Trying to win the Cy Young is one thing but his pitch counts lately have been ridiculos!!!

Lincecum's pitching style lends itself to him being able to have higher pitch counts. He's very mechanically sound (far more so than many veteran pitchers). He's uses his entire body to deliver the baseball, which greatly reduces stress on the arm. Many pitchers do not do this, and many pitching coaches do not even know how to teach this (or that they should be teaching this). I think it's sad how baseball clings to traditional thought in regards to pitch counts and pitching mechanics. There is far more to durability than innings pitched or pitch counts.

[GAME05]

i don't see why we can't move Escobar to 2B for the time being instead of trading Hardy just yet.

[Hate those Rodents]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi...2008/09/29/SPJ21385LL.DTL

 

I thought about giving this it's own thread, but decided not to. Article first mentions that the Giants first and foremost want to upgrade their HR and RBI production and then the bullpen. However, they are going to make a push for CC and see if he wants to return to the Bay Area. The biggest things concering us out of the article are:

 

1) It appears they are not going to be seeking a 1Bman

2) Sabean does not think they need to trade Cain to get a big time run producer (basically calls him untouchable.

 

It would appear to me that they'd be seeking Hardy + to move Cain. What plus is and what we'd agree to (if anything) I don't know.

[dadofandrew]

Doesn't untouchable usually mean "not going to be traded"?

 

I see no match with SF at all, they will be looking to trade Winn and the like. Check back next July.

[Hate those Rodents]

I am implying that untouchable means "give us a very good offer if you want him." What's he supposed to say, "we'll trade Cain if we get a good package"? I see it as posturing, but I could be wrong.

[ILuvDaBush]

With all the smoke surrounding Cain and their utter lack of power and run production, I think it's more likely than not Cain is moved, though they could also move Jon Sanchez. The Royals say thta Greinke is "untouchable" as well. What is meant is "I don't want to touch upon that subject until I have some fair, concrete offers," hence, THE QUESTION is untouchable. :-)

[southpaw121505]

i would think that them signing cc would make them even more likely and willing to trade cain for offense

[JohnBriggs12]

Doesn't untouchable usually mean "not going to be traded"?

 

I see no match with SF at all, they will be looking to trade Winn and the like. Check back next July.

Sorry, I don't buy that Giants wouldn't be interested in Hardy over Emmanuel Burriss. Isn't their goal to add power? Burriss has 2 HR in over 1,000 professional AB's. That they would be looking to trade Winn is great. Winn matches a need for the Brewers. What's not to like about a switch hitting OF that hits .300, gets on at a decent clip, can steal a base, and doesn't strike out 100 times.

 

I see lots of matches with the Giants myself.

[Hate those Rodents]

Yep, I'd be tempted to do Cain/Winn for Hardy/Hart based on the way Hart has been hitting. I'd probably need a sweetener though and this would be contingent on feeling Escobar is really ready and the organizational feeling that Gillespie is going to be an above average corner OF'er.

 

Might be too much to give up and selling too low on Hart, so I am retracting this hypothetical in my head.

[southpaw121505]

I don't its too much to give up HTR, I'd do that deal actually. I have a bad feeling Hart's best year was last year. And why would we need Gillespie to be ready if we have Winn? Although I wouldnt mind giving Gippespie a look in left with Braun swapping over. Winn would be an awesome 4th, can play anywhere and switch hitter.

[lodiness]

The Giants have the funds to extend Hardy's contract, should they want to. Dunno, Sabean's pretty unpredictable... Doesn't seem like a perfect match to me either, but SF marches to the beat of a different drummer.

If they have the money to do that, do you see them possibly making a run at CC if they trade Cain? The hometown boy, and they have the money.

[FVBrewerFan]

Hardy and Fielder for Cain is a joke- it would have to be.