Hardy for Matt Cain?; Latest -- Gammons reports Hardy AND Fielder for Cain? (reply #52)

[StearnsFTW]

I was just over at MLBTR and there was some discussion of a deal like this. Most seemed to think this was fair for both teams, while some Giants posters suggested Sanchez +. What do you guys think? Personally I would love to get Cain. I'd hate to see JJ go, but Escobar is ready. Not sure if the Giants would bite, but JJ is a top 10 ss.

[trwi7]

I would do it if it was Cain. If it was Sanchez + that + better be Madison Bumgarner because there is nothing else on that team that I would want. And yes I'm fully aware that the Giants would never trade Sanchez and Bumgarner for Hardy.

[StearnsFTW]

I agree. I would not have guessed a year ago that a Cain/Hardy discussion would be even remotely realistic, but JJ's value is really quite high. I think if the FO is really committed to Escobar, very good value could be had for JJ. Gallardo/Cain/Parra/Bush/Soup really isn't bad at all, and payroll would be down. Obviously Gallardo/Cain don't replace CC/Sheets, but with improvement from Parra, the staff would still be quite good. Plus 4 comp picks.

[Bankjob]

I would rather trade Escobar for Cain than Hardy for Cain. JJ is a big part of the heart and soul of this team.

[Brian the Automator]

I would rather trade Escobar for Cain than Hardy for Cain. JJ is a big part of the heart and soul of this team.

How many millions of dollars is "heart and soul" worth, though?

 

I'm torn... I like JJ a ton, but the idea of watching Escobar play defense for years to come is really exciting.

[endaround]

Why do the Giants do that deal? They need more than one piece. They'll should make a Haren type deal,not one for a player with only two years before free agency.

[Gobias Industries]

This trade makes a ton of sense for both teams.

 

If Sabathia winds up on the Giants, which there are rumours of, I'd say there's a good chance something like this happens.

[Brian the Automator]

Why do the Giants do that deal? They need more than one piece. They'll should make a Haren type deal,not one for a player with only two years before free agency.

The Giants have the funds to extend Hardy's contract, should they want to. Dunno, Sabean's pretty unpredictable... Doesn't seem like a perfect match to me either, but SF marches to the beat of a different drummer.

[StearnsFTW]

Yeah, the reasoning hinged on them signing Sabathia and trying to contend next year (both stretches, admittedly). Apparently there is speculation that SF is CC's first choice since he's from there.

 

A lot of dominoes would have to fall for this to make sense for the Giants. As has been pointed out, however, Sabean is a little goofy. I mean, how much sense did the Rowand signing make knowing that the team would be pretty terrible for a minimum of two years (likely Rowand's last 2 effective seasons), not to mention the Zito abomination.

[brewcrewkid14]

I'd rather trade Fielder than Hardy.

 

Gamel could step in a play first with Branyan holding down the spot until he arrives.

 

Hardy is too much of a unique talent.

[sbrylski]

Hardy is too much of a unique talent.

 

Not saying I don't love Hardy too, but a 50 home run season by our only good LH bat is pretty unique too.

[Hate those Rodents]

I'd be down for trading Hardy for the best young ML starter we can get for him. And yes, Doug should call SF about Cain, but there are other good young starter's that can help us as a #2 type on other teams that might need Hardy more.

[giffted1]

I'd do that trade without thinking twice about it, but JJ is probably on the wrong side of 30 to interest Sabean and the Giants.

[ILuvDaBush]

I have been mulling over such a deal for the last week. With Escobar becoming one of the most complete minor league players, and Hardy's impending arbitration, it would seem obvious, especially with the Giants marching out Emmanuel Burris, as of late. Hardy would seem to be the ideal piece to trade, and Cain would seem to be the ideal target. I would even be willing to toss them Errecart and some shwag if need be. But Cain has long been the man on many a Brewerfan.netters' minds. I would be all for it.

[mothershipconnection]

Apparently there is speculation that SF is CC's first choice since he's from there.

 

I just hope wherever he lands he won't go to someone who competes with us, and that should be SF. However, I'd really like him to sign with a team with the 16th pick.

[StearnsFTW]

That was my thought as well. I wouldn't mind seeing him with the Dodgers or the Giants. We don't see them much, plus LA's pick will likely be 17-20ish. From everything I've read, it would seem that he prefers the west coast, and those are the only two west coast teams that make any sense.

[bbrauch2000]

Matt Cain is an absolute dream and if Hardy would be even close to getting him, they need to jump on it. Looking at Cain's birthday being 10-1-1984 makes me feel old but crazy excited at the chance to possibly attain him.

[JohnBriggs12]

Cain has a contract that makes him very attractive to the Brewers. The Giants have a huge need at SS and to improve their offense and the ability to be players in the FA market for starting pitching to replace Cain who is just one of 3 young stud starters they have and thus more expendable than one might think.

 

This would be a win/win deal. Yes people are attached to JJ, but Escobar is just about ready and he's got a huge upside.

 

A Cain/Gallardo/Parra/Bush/Suppan rotation can contend in 09.

[yoshii8]

Not that I don't love Cain, but I'm not sure how good of an idea it is to be trading JJ, he has shown the ability to carry our offense for weeks at a time. Also from what I've heard throughout his major and minor league career, he is a great team leader, and someone who is a very valuable piece of a ballclub, kind of like Jeter. I really think that the Brewers are going to keep Fielder, Braun, Hart, and Hardy together as long as possible, and build around them.

 

However if we did do the deal wouldn't we be saving money by trading Hardy for Cain? It would probably allow us to resign Sheets, or sign somebody like Lowe or Oliver Perez to be the #3 starter to make our rotation even better than this year.

[MNBrew]

The SS I'd much rather see the Brewers peddle in the offseason is Bill Hall. Due to his contract & performance, you'd probably have to add some other attractive pieces to the deal to net a return that would improve the Crew considerably. However, there are many teams out there for whom Hall's ability and even his track record would represent a solid upgrade.

 

Not that they'd necessarily spend the cash without some incentive in the deal, but the Twins are the team I see the most and they get pummeled by LH pitching. Brian Buscher is hitting over .300 for them, which is no small feat. But Hall has positive offensive credentials -- not that they're guaranteed to recur, of course -- that no current Twins IF not named Morneau can match. The Twins have 5 solid OFs and a glaring need for relief pitching. Maybe there'd be potential here for a 3-way deal.

 

I'd love to get Matt Cain. But giving up Hardy would be a steep price and I'm not so sure I'd want to do that. I still think eventually you move Hardy to 3B and Escobar becomes the SS, maybe even as soon as next year.

[Brian the Automator]

I'd love to get Matt Cain. But giving up Hardy would be a steep price and I'm not so sure I'd want to do that. I still think eventually you move Hardy to 3B and Escobar becomes the SS, maybe even as soon as next year.

Given that Hardy's so close to a big payday as a SS, I don't think he would be willing to suck it up and do that.

[JohnBriggs12]

Guys, Matt Cain has yet to turn 24. He's been better up to this point than Sheets was. He's owed $13 million over the next 3 seasons which is less than what Sheets will get per year for 5 years on his next contract. He hasn't missed a start for 3 years. I'd say there is at least a 50-50 chance that Cain will be superior to Sheets over the next 3 years.

 

Hardy is a fine, fine player. But, hello, the Brewers have 2 pretty big spots to fill in their rotatation. Gallardo is being counted on for one spot. They could gamble on a lesser FA for the other but they'd pay for it.

 

Escobar is a top flight talent. Maybe he won't quite be ready to perform to Hardy's level in 09. But even if Escobar needs a full year in AAA, Hall can still play the position and at least provide power from SS.

[ILuvDaBush]

Also, today on the Fan in Green Bay, Dougie talked about how JJ wouldn't be amenable to such a move, and I can't blame him. He's been an All-Star at short and plays a very good SS, though not Escobar-quality. I would think JJ will probably be offered this offseason, for a pitcher, either Greinke or Cain, as the service times match up well either way. Even if it takes a bit of Splenda to sweeten the pot (perhaps, McClung), I would still be ecstatic, as a Gallardo/Cain/Parra triumvirate is exactly the type of triple threat that the Brewz are in need of, especially when complemented by Bush and the Soup Nazi.

[MNBrew]

While the Giants are always in the hunt on big free agents when they have money to spend, I still wonder if they'd really be in on Sabathia when they're already paying Zito about $17M/yr. Then again, that's probably exactly when they'd be in it on CC.

 

If they'd take Suppan with Hardy (pipe dream), then we'd have the jing to keep up with any offer to CC.

 

Sabathia/Gallardo/Cain/Parra/Bush-Villanueva-McClung..... maybe not likely, but sure fun to dream!

[StearnsFTW]

That would be pretty sweet, if unlikely. I do think the Brewers have a shot at Sheets, however. They could then deal Bush for other assets. Sheets/Gallardo/Cain/Parra/Suppan would also be the rotation of a contender.