Make your 09 team.

[8brewcrew]

I would decline that and let Tony Gwynn play in center.

 

welcome to the site, you will learn quickly to never say this again

Why is that? Tony Gwynn deserves a chance to play. He bats lefty, steals bases, and isn't a home-run or nothing hitter like most of the lineup this year. If they aren't going to give him a chance then he deserves to be traded.

[nate82]

Why is that? Tony Gwynn deserves a chance to play. He bats lefty, steals bases, and isn't a home-run or nothing hitter like most of the lineup this year. If they aren't going to give him a chance then he deserves to be traded.

Yes and Gwynn also doesn't take enough walks and is a slap hitter OBP wise he is worse than Weeks. Now where do you bat Gwynn? Lead off?

 

Weeks is a better lead off hitter than Gwynn is and that is not saying much. In order for Gwynn to become a starter for the Brewers he would have to either increase his average to a .300 hitter, increase his walks, or find some power. I don't see Gwynn being able to do any of those things.

 

Gwynn is a 4th OF at best I would say he is a 5th OF right now. I don't see a team taking a chance on Gwynn and I don't see the Brewers getting much in return for Gwynn.

[8brewcrew]

Gwynn can do something Weeks can't...bunt for a hit!

[nate82]

Gwynn can do something Weeks can't...bunt for a hit!

So you are going to substitute a better OBP for 10 bunt hits a year?

[jjfanec]

Gwynn isnt really a great OBP guy like people would think. He is a little under a 2:1 K to BB guy. Weeks strikes out a little more but not enough to really make a difference when you actually look at Gwynn's numbers.

[nate82]

This year in AAA Gwynn had a .327 OBP compared to Weeks .342 OBP in MLB.

[bucks2281]

A full year of Gwynn as a starter would be downright maddening. The combination of a pedestrian OBP and absolutely no SLG (maybe one HR all season?) would get old very quickly.

[endaround]

I'm seeing way too many posts where Hall is penciled in as a starter or platooned 3rd baseman. Even with his higher avg vs lefties his defense kills us. Also we saw many times this year that once the starter is pulled we're either stuck with Hall flailing against a righty or we're forced to use a pinch hitter earlier in the game than we would like. Let's take our lumps with Billy's remaining two years, eat whatever $$ we have to and get someone in that can at least play defense. If Escobar is ready then I'm confident JJ could play 3rd. It may be a more natural spot for him considering his range is limited but he does a good job coming in on balls in front of him.

 

Hall is a good defensive 3B. Hall had a RZR of .722 making him 5th among 3B and better than "defensive whiz" Pedro Feliz. You can complain about his bat but not his glove.

[Hammer]

endaround wrote:

Hall is a good defensive 3B. Hall had a RZR of .722 making him 5th among 3B and better than "defensive whiz" Pedro Feliz. You can complain about his bat but not his glove.

I usually agree with most of what you post end but not in this case. Hall has good lateral range but he cannot make the plays that a 3rd baseman needs to make. He is horrible at coming in on bunts/swinging bunts, he has a good but very erratic arm (not good with a stumpy load on 1st) and he does not seem to have the mental ability to understand where the ball needs to go when there are men on. Good SS? Yep. Good 3rd sacker? Not in my opinion...

[twobrewers]

2B-Weeks

SS-Hardy

LF-Braun

1B-Fielder

RF-Corey Hart

3B-Branyan/Hall

CF-Cameron

C-Kendall/Rivera

 

Bench: Counsell, Nelson, Kapler

 

Rotation:

Yo

Parra

McClung

Bush

Suppan

 

Bullpen:

Torres

Shouse

Stetter

Villy

Riske

Dillard

Free Agent.

 

I think it is important for the Brewers to "stay the course". After another year of development for Escobar, Gamel, Salome, Cain, Jeffress. Green etc - the Brewers will have a better idea of where they stand.

 

Trading Weeks, Hall, Hart, Fielder, or Suppan right now would be selling low. (And in some cases paying salary)

 

I see far too many unknowns to make any major changes. (Signing a big money free agent is the last thing I want!)

[piccione88]

Free agents: F.Lopez(2 years/9 million plus club option), J.Cruz(3 years/12 million)
re-signings/ options exercised: re-sign G.Kapler, and pick up Torres', and Cameron's options
Trades: trade B.Hall and cash to royals for M.Teahen.
J.J Hardy to san fran for J.Sanchez, and K.Pichardo

Batting Order
2B) Weeks
CF) Cameron
LF) Braun
1B) Fielder
RF) Hart
3B) Teahen
SS) Escobar
C) Kendall
Bench: F.Lopez, G.Kapler, J.Gibbons, B.Nelson, and M.Rivera

Rotation:
1- Gallardo, 2- J.Sanchez, 3- Parra, 4- Suppan, 5- Bush

Bullpen
Villanueva, Stetter, Coffey, Riske, Torres, McClung, and J.Cruz

[edod]

This year in AAA Gwynn had a .327 OBP compared to Weeks .342 OBP in MLB.

According to minorleague baseball's website it's .328 which is all of .03 lower than Cameron's at the MLB level and this is Sveum's leadoff hitter. That's $9.5 million more for .146 points of SLG. I think you get the same defense (minus the benefits of experience), more base-path speed, greater possibility of improvement and a whole lot more flexibility. Whereas Cameron is more likely to (continue to) regress due to age.

 

If I'm the GM trying to improve the team for the long-run, while still staying competitive each year on a budget Cameron is not my CF in 2009. I'd move that money elsewhere. If Gwynn is a bust even platooning and the team is in it come June, go get a CF from the minors or via trade. Gwynn's potential ability fits this team's ideal needs and he's still youngish at 26.

 

Coming off a 90 win, 1st post-seaon in an eon, 3 million attendance year, it sounds a lot worse that it really is.

[trwi7]

According to minorleague baseball's website it's .328 which is all of .03 lower than Cameron's at the MLB level and this is Sveum's leadoff hitter.

 

Why are you assuming that Gwynn would carry his .328 OBP to the majors when he's facing better competition?

[nate82]

From: http://www.minorleaguespl.../cgi-bin/pl.cgi?pl=448242 Tony Gwynn's Minor league stats and what it would translate into at the major league level.

 

Minor League Stats

AB	H	2B	3B	HR	W	IW	HP	K	SH	SF	GDP		AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS	BABIP		GB%	LD%	FB%	IF/F
376	104	9	3	2	29	1	2	54	3	2	9		0.277	0.330	0.332	0.662	0.319		62.1%	14.1%	23.2%	9.0%

Major League Equivalent stats

AB	H	2B	3B	HR	W	IW	HP	K	SH	SF	GDP		AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS	BABIP		GB%	LD%	FB%	IF/F
384	93	7	2	1	29	1	1	58	3	2	9		0.242	0.296	0.279	0.575	0.283		62.1%	14.1%	23.2%	9.0%

That OBP of 0.296 is horrible that is an equivalent of having Bill Hall leading off.

[edod]

Why are you assuming that Gwynn would carry his .328 OBP to the majors when he's facing better competition?

You're right, I over-looked this in my post, but I wanted to emphasize that I don't think Cameron is worth so much more money when the team has other options. If I were GM, which I think is the spirit of this thread, I would take a gamble on him for at least half of 2009. It seems most of the above posters who have put Cameron in their 2009 line-ups cite his defense, which Gwynn does provide. I should also add that I think 2009 will/should be a under-the-radar rebuild year where they may still get a shot at the wild-card. And because of this belief, I definitely don't like the idea of extending Cameron and then being left with either a hole or more expensive and risky extention of Cameron in 2010 when I expect the team to make an aggressive financial move to go for it again. But to reiterate, I prefer Gwynn's potential to the actuality of Cameron (which is more likely to decline). You can substitute any cheap young name for Gwynn, I just don't want to pay 10 mil for great D and 20+ dingers when the team badly needs .obp and contact hitting (and a lefty at that).

[And That]

According to minorleague baseball's website it's .328 which is all of .03 lower than Cameron's at the MLB level and this is Sveum's leadoff hitter. That's $9.5 million more for .146 points of SLG. I think you get the same defense (minus the benefits of experience), more base-path speed, greater possibility of improvement and a whole lot more flexibility. Whereas Cameron is more likely to (continue to) regress due to age.

It's already been mentioned, but Gwynn's mediocre AAA .328 OBP translates into something even worse at the MLB level. And while you're going to pay Cameron considerably more than Gwynn, that's the price the Brewers (might) have to pay to not have a black hole in the lineup wherever Gwynn is.

 

TGJ also regressed offensively in basically his second full season in AAA. In 2006, he had a .300/.360/.396 line over 447 ABs. In 2008, he had a .275/.328/.331 over 375 AB. The problem with Gwynn is that his OBP (and really his OPS) is batting average dependant. He has no power to speak of, so major league pitchers have no reason to throw him balls. Even if you think he'll hit .280 in the bigs, it'll be a pretty empty .280.

 

I would also take Cameron on the basepaths every time over Gwynn. Gwynn's speed has been overstated quite a bit IMO. He's faster than average, but not much faster, and I would give the baserunning edge to Cameron without a doubt.

 

Finally, as for Cameron regressing, he had a better OPS+ than last year, and better than his career average. He's not a world beater, but he did have the 7th best OPS among CF in baseball last year.

[nate82]

You're right, I over-looked this in my post, but I wanted to emphasize that I don't think Cameron is worth so much more money when the team has other options. If I were GM, which I think is the spirit of this thread, I would take a gamble on him for at least half of 2009. It seems most of the above posters who have put Cameron in their 2009 line-ups cite his defense, which Gwynn does provide. I should also add that I think 2009 will/should be a under-the-radar rebuild year where they may still get a shot at the wild-card. And because of this belief, I definitely don't like the idea of extending Cameron and then being left with either a hole or more expensive and risky extention of Cameron in 2010 when I expect the team to make an aggressive financial move to go for it again. But to reiterate, I prefer Gwynn's potential to the actuality of Cameron (which is more likely to decline). You can substitute any cheap young name for Gwynn, I just don't want to pay 10 mil for great D and 20+ dingers when the team badly needs .obp and contact hitting (and a lefty at that).

Gwynn is not going to give you that OBP that you want. Cameron is by far better than Gwynn with the OBP stat. A .330 is a lot higher than what you could expect Gwynn to do. Gwynn will put up Bill Hall type of numbers with the OBP stat without the slugging to go with it. I wouldn't even think about replacing Kapler with Gwynn let alone replacing Cameron with Gwynn. There are better options in the minors right now than Gwynn they are just not ready yet. By 2010 they should be and I doubt Cameron would be brought back for another year unless he takes a pay cut and is willing to be a 4th OF.

 

The amount of money given up to Cameron is not that much and the Brewers can afford it. The bottom line is that Gwynn shouldn't be starting ever in a Brewers uniform. If Gwynn is starting it is probably because someone is injured or the team is packing it in and trying for next year. Even if Cameron has a down year OBP wise next year it will still be better than what Gwynn will provide to the team.

[edod]

The amount of money given up to Cameron is not that much and the Brewers can afford it.

What makes you say this? Mark A said earlier this year, when the payroll hit 90 million that they might break even if the team won the WS. I don't think they will go into next season with the same or higher payroll, unless they pull off a deal for Sabbathia. I can't see a team run by an investment banker going into the season running at a deficit with a team will probably have less expectations (which they will be without Sheets or Sabbathia).

 

Gwynn is not going to give you that OBP that you want.

I emphasize that this is a gamble, but not one that is going to cost the team a lot. I don't know that Gwynn will improve, but likewise I'm not as sure as you seem to be that he won't. He's young, he has a decent swing, and he can learn to take more walks. And really, I don't need Gwynn, he's just present. I'd be happier with any younger, cheaper, and preferrably left-handed contact hitter than Cameron as long as the D is better than good.

[nate82]

What makes you say this? Mark A said earlier this year, when the payroll hit 90 million that they might break even if the team won the WS. I don't think they will go into next season with the same or higher payroll, unless they pull off a deal for Sabbathia. I can't see a team run by an investment banker going into the season running at a deficit with a team will probably have less expectations (which they will be without Sheets or Sabbathia).

Since the Brewers are going to go after Sabathia that $10 million option is not that expensive when you look at the deal Sabathia could get.

I emphasize that this is a gamble, but not one that is going to cost the team a lot. I don't know that Gwynn will improve, but likewise I'm not as sure as you seem to be that he won't. He's young, he has a decent swing, and he can learn to take more walks. And really, I don't need Gwynn, he's just present. I'd be happier with any younger, cheaper, and preferrably left-handed contact hitter than Cameron as long as the D is better than good.

Cameron has a decent swing also. Gwynn shouldn't even be considered as a starter ever unless there is an injury and the Brewers are going to full rebuild mode. Cameron should be the CF next year and Gwynn should be in AAA again for the third straight year. OBP and OPS Cameron gives you the more bang for the buck.

 

If you broke it down Cameron's contract is about right for a CF with his ability.

[HOF4canrake]

Alright, it's official...I want Matt Cain on the Brewers next season. I just threw a no-hitter with him in Wrigley Field on MLB The Show. I would have been a perfect game, but Randy Winn dropped a fly ball in the 6th. Clearly, the video game is a solid source of projected real-life performance. Make it happen, Doug!

[giffted1]

Under the assumption that JJ doesn't want to be moved to third and Sveum is brought back:

 

CF - Mike Cameron

2B - Mark Loretta (FA Contract, somewhat of a platoon with Counsell)

LF - Ryan Braun

1B - Prince Fielder

3B - Adrian Beltre (From Seattle for Rickie Weeks)

RF - Corey Hart (make this a platoon with Matt Gamel around the end of May)

SS - Alcides Escobar

C - Jason Kendall

 

Bench - Counsell, Hall, Nelson, Rivera

 

SP - Yovani Gallardo

SP - Matt Cain (From SF for JJ Hardy)

SP - Manny Parra

SP - Dave Bush

SP - Jeff Suppan

 

CL - Salomon Torres (for a month, then McClung)

RP - Seth McClung

RP - Carlos Villanueva

RP - Todd Coffey

RP - David Riske

RP - Brian Shouse

RP - Mitch Stetter

RP - Tim Dillard

[Weirdos19]

I'd like to run with this Hardy/ Peavy deal that may or may not happen.

 

1. Weeks, Hardy, and Gamel to San Diego for Peavy and Headley

2. Re-sign Durham to a one year deal

3. Re-sign Counsell to a one year deal

4. Do not sign Cameron, Gagne, or Shouse

5. Trade Parra and Gwynn to Colorado for Hawpe and Tavares

 

Hart CF

Durham/Hall 2B

Braun LF

Fielder 1B

Headley 3B

Hawpe RF

Escobar SS

Kendall C

 

Bench: Rivera, Counsell, Nelson, Durham/Hall, Tavares

 

Peavy, Yo, Bush, Suppan, FA starter or Cappy

 

McClung, Torres, Riske, Stetter, Villy, Dillard, Pena

[Bnowell4evr]

- Trade Corey Hart for Edwin Jackson

- Trade JJ Hardy to Minnesota for Nick Blackburn and Denard Span (Love that idea fleehaw)

- Sign Casey Blake

- Bring back Cameron, Counsell, and Kapler

 

RF Span

2B Weeks

LF Braun

1B Fielder

3B Blake

CF Cameron

SS Counsell / Hall

C Kendall

 

Gallardo

Blackburn

Bush

Parra

Suppan

 

CL Jackson

RP Torres

RP Riske

RP Villanueva

RP Stetter

RP McClung

RP Dillard

 

The team OBP rises and the lineup becomes more balanced. The bullpen is cheap and the rotation is deep albeit lacks a star at the front end to go along with Gallardo. That could be fixed with signing Randy Johnson if Arizona doesnt bring him back or if Ben Sheets cant get a decent offer on the open market and returns for a year to up his value. If any of those situations occured it would force Parra to the bullpen as a 2nd lefty unless we somehow manage to move Suppan for some other junk.

 

I believe that team could easily win 90 games especially with Randy Johnson or Ben Sheets.

[8brewcrew]

cc signs with the giants thus they will be more willing to deal Cain. Rockies announced today they want to trade matt holiday. 3 team deal with San Francisco and Colorado goes as follows...

 

Milwaukee gets Cain and Brian Wilson from SF as well as Atkins and Taveras from COL

SF gets Matt Holiday, Bill Hall, Todd Helton

Colorado gets Prince, Weeks, and top prospect from SF

 

Brewers decline Cameron's optio and lineup would be as follows...

 

Cf- taveras

2b- hardy

Lf- Braun

3b- atkins

Rf- hart

1b- gamel

Ss- escobar

C- Kendall

P- Cain, YoGa, parra, bush, soup

And we'd have a reputable closer as well as dumping hall's contract

 

I realize this would probably never happen but what do you think?

[trwi7]

Wilson is bad, Taveras is terrible, Atkins can't play defense or hit away from Coors. I don't like it.