What do we do with the outfield next year?

[Postseason2006]

For those still on the defensive of Cameron, proof again tonight why he is not what the Brewers need in the lineup. He continually leaves players on base especially late in the game.

[Postseason2006]

Please stop!

 

Just curious as to where I said Hamilton was better than Cameron. Hamilton put the ball in play something that Cameron can not consistently do.

[Postseason2006]

I just saw the 9th inning play again...Clemente could not have thrown out Rivas...and Hardy had no chance if the throw was right to him, Luis was well more than halfway to home.

 

As i said in the first place, Cameron's angle was all wrong, in addition to it being too deep...he was running straight across CF to cut it off. His momentum was going right to the foul line, not towards the plate. No chance to get the runner, the throw correctly came in to hold the go ahead run at 1B.

 

On a base hit right at Cameron, he could have charged the ball and both got his momentum going the right way and shortening his throw, like the short fly ball in the 12th. On a single in LCF, it's automatic that run scores.

 

Clemente is dead. If you also remember Kameron misplayed another ball into a triple. But I'm sure just like your statements about how LuCroy would be at best a backup catcher, you'll ignore.

[trwi7]

For those still on the defensive of Cameron, proof again tonight why he is not what the Brewers need in the lineup. He continually leaves players on base especially late in the game.

 

I don't know why you keep singling him out when you can say that about pretty much all of our hitters.

[piccione88]

To not pick up a center fielder who has an ops+ of 122, because he might not be clutch enough would be a very big mistake. I do not think that is true either, this year he has a .241 BA with RISP, which is about 15 points lower than his BA, but from 05 through 07 he did very well with RISP, hitting 275 with RISP in 07, and over 300 in 06 and 05. It is most likely just a fluke thing.

[kramnoj]

For those still on the defensive of Cameron, proof again tonight why he is not what the Brewers need in the lineup. He continually leaves players on base especially late in the game.

The population of players in Major League Baseball continually leaves players on base especially late in the game. Hitters fail more often than they succeed. Let's look at some facts here: Cameron with men on this season is hitting .270/.384/.553. So if you really think Cameron isn't doing well with men on, your bias is clouding your judgment. As far as late in game, that's kind of vague. He has hit well in the 6th, 7th and 9th innings this year. He has performed poorly in the 8th inning (in only 43 ABs) and has done awful in his 9 ABs in extra innings.

[JohnBriggs12]

Cameron has value as a player but he's not worth $10 million at age 36 even for just one season, especially for a team that is overly righthanded and strikes out a lot. Spend that money elsewhere. Move Hart to CF if you have to and find a LH bat that can hit close to .300 and not strike out 150 times.

 

He's striking out at a rate close to what Jose Hernandez did in 2002, and I don't think anyone here thought Jose was worth $10 million.

[kramnoj]

Cameron has value as a player but he's not worth $10 million at age 36 even for just one season, especially for a team that is overly righthanded and strikes out a lot.

 

It's easy to say this in a vacuum. It becomes much less clear when you look at the alternatives. Nobody in the system looks ready for 2009, there aren't any attractive FA and it's not clear that there are attractive options in the trade market. If you look at what Cameron provides for this team, and what they would put out there without him, the difference to the team is likely worth the $10 million. To put it another way, I don't think the Brewers could spend $10 million more efficiently in 2009 than to bring Cameron back.

 

Move Hart to CF if you have to and find a LH bat that can hit close to .300 and not strike out 150 times.

 

Hart has not been good defensively in RF this year, there's not much reason to think that he would be even average in CF this year. It used to be the case that his bat would clearly make up for whatever his defense in CF, but his bat has slipped as well. I know Hart to CF has been a popular theme here (one that I used to advocate to make room for LaPorta), but I don't think there's any reason to believe the front office is even considering it.

 

He's striking out at a rate close to what Jose Hernandez did in 2002, and I don't think anyone here thought Jose was worth $10 million.

 

Of course not. $10 million in 2002 is different than $10 million in 2009, especially for baseball and the Brewers.

[rluzinski]

Even if Cameron goes back to hitting at his career average, he's worth $10 mil on the open market. That doesn't necessarily mean he's worth $ 10 mil to The Brewers but considering the options, I think so.

 

And JB, do you bring up his strikeout rate because of what you think it suggests about his future offensive prospects or because you think it significantly devalues his offensive performance this year. The former would be understandable while the later is just plain wrong.

[Teatoe993]

The outfield is the absolute least of the Brewers problems. I would not change it at all for 2009. The bench players can be debated, but I would not change a thing with the starting outfield. It is the infield that needs the overhaul. They have been a liability at the plate and with the glove. I truly feel that the every position in the infield needs to be replaced either in house or with outside help.

[RyDogg66]

Cameron has value as a player but he's not worth $10 million at age 36 even for just one season, especially for a team that is overly righthanded and strikes out a lot. Spend that money elsewhere. Move Hart to CF if you have to and find a LH bat that can hit close to .300 and not strike out 150 times.

 

He's striking out at a rate close to what Jose Hernandez did in 2002, and I don't think anyone here thought Jose was worth $10 million.

I agree, we should let Cam go and replace him with someone who hits on the left side who gets on base les, hits for less power and plays inferior defense. That way, the team can be balanced and suck from both sides of the plate.

 

How about Juan Pierre? He is lefty and might put up a .300/.330/.360 line for us.

[logan82]

Teatoe993 wrote:

I truly feel that the every position in the infield needs to be replaced either in house or with outside help.

I think JJ at the very least is just fine out there both offensively and defensively.

[Teatoe993]

Teatoe993 wrote:

I truly feel that the

every position in the infield needs to be replaced either in house or with outside help.

I think JJ at the very least is just fine out there both offensively and defensively.

I do too. But I really think he's gonna have to be moved to make room for Escobar and to replace one of the black holes at 2B or 3B. Someone should start an infield thread if there isn't one already. Ideas would really fly there.

[Robideaux]

Cameron is terrible. He will never get a clutch hit. Yup.

[Postseason2006]

0-4 tonight with 3 K's and the first two were killers.

[BrewCrewForever]

Isn't Cameron second on the team in OPS behind Braun?

[BrewCrewForever]

0-4 tonight with 3 K's and the first two were killers.

Braun and Hart both killed us tonight to.

[Postseason2006]

Yeah and he's also got averaging 1.16 K's a game. I want someone to put the ball in play especially with runner's on.

[giffted1]

0-4 tonight with 3 K's and the first two were killers.

Which obviously cancels out his excellent numbers so far. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/eyes.gif

[BrewCrewForever]

Yeah and he's also got averaging 1.16 K's a game. I want someone to put the ball in play especially with runner's on.

Putting the ball in play is fine. But if it's a double play sometimes it's better to K.

[Postseason2006]

0-4 tonight with 3 K's and the first two were killers.

Which obviously cancels out his excellent numbers so far. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/eyes.gif

 

.247 and the amount of SO's are excellent? Pass me some of that Kool-Aid.

[giffted1]

.247 and the amount of SO's are excellent? Pass me some of that Kool-Aid.

I know this month has been hard on some people, but come on man. You can't just pick out a couple stats that you like, ignore other stats that discredit your claims, and accuse me of being the one that's drinking Kool-Aid. You've been on this site long enough to know that BA and K's by themselves aren't a good measure a player's performance.

[DonMoney4Mgr]

I agree with your ideas in regards to the OF. Cameron sure appears to be able to hit 30+ HRs if he played a full year, but what does concern me about his offense is he doesn't exactly 'fit' what the Brewers need. I don't see any harm in keeping him another year, but it's not a perfect match.

I do see harm in keeping him. 9M is a lot to play for a 36 yr old defensive player who is a streaky hitter. I think RBI's are more in important than home runs. He has trouble, as do most brewers, at moving runners along, getting the run in from 3rd with less than two out. Strikeouts. Also, I don't believe he's ever hit 30 HR in a year. Brantley's my choice, if he is still a brewer.

[reillymcshane]

Also, I don't believe he's ever hit 30 HR in a year. Brantley's my choice, if he is still a brewer.

Cameron hit 30 in 2004 while with the mets. Only time. He has, on the whole, played in pitchers parks (safeco, shea, petco). his power this year was not a surprise to many because this is probably the best park he's had to hit in for a long time.

[kramnoj]

He has trouble, as do most brewers, at moving runners along, getting the run in from 3rd with less than two out.

 

Why do you think this? His numbers this year, with a man on 3rd and less than 2 outs, are .400/.429./.667. Now, it's only 21 PA, but your memory of him isn't close to the truth. It is true that he has struck out 5 times in those situations. It sounds like you are focusing far too much on the k's and not remembering his success.