What do we do with the outfield next year?

[phxMILWfan]

With great defense in center. I don't understand all the anti-Cameron talk I hear. What kind of production was everyone expecting? The guy strikes out 140 times a year, hits .250 with a lot of walks, and goes 20-20. I'll take that in center any day of the week.

 

There's just a lot of stubbornness & ignorance imho. Dangit, he struck out those times, and those 3 defensive plays... what a bum!

 

Cameron is the best defensive CF the Brewers have had since I can remember. On top of that, he's exceeded or met offensive expectations. To say anything else about his offense is just, well, untrue. As long as people keep beating the 'OMG LOW AVG' drum, we'll get mired in these strange debates. Did you hear that Adam Dunn sucks?

 

 

You dont put guys in the outfield that hit .230 unless they hit 30 + HR's a season...

 

Honestly, go do some homework on the CF position.

Isn't that exactly what Cameron is? If he plays the additional 25 games in the beginning of the season, by the end of the year you're looking at a gold glove caliber CFer who hit 30+ HR's. If his avg ends up at .230 oh well. His OBP is good enough. 10 Million next year for Cameron is a great deal. Keep the outfield exactly the same.

[bcf5575]

starters: Braun Hart Weeks (Weeks in RF - Braun and Hart can fight over CF)

BU Kapler

 

Save the money from Cameron to get a 2b that can leadoff. I think that Weeks is over working and over thinking trying to leadoff and play 2b. bat him 6th and let him play rf - 2 low stress jobs for him. he has the tools to be a hof type of guy - but he is a head case. if they do this, he might finally relax and i think this would put him in a position to excel...

[Invader3K]

I don't get where this idea of moving Weeks to the outfield is suddenly coming from. He's not Bill Hall.

[Never Outhustled]

Keep starters intact, sign Eric Hinske as the 4th OF. He gives us the lefty bat that pounds righthanders that we're looking for, and use Hart as the back-up CF. He'd likely jump at the chance to play for his home state team, and 4th OFs get alot of ABs.

[dadofandrew]

I like Hinske's ability to play 1B/3B/LF/RF, and his OBP. However, his SLG bounces all over the place, and his career OPS is under 800. Offhand, I'd say it's really close to Weeks' career.

 

Kapler seems certain to be back, if he wishes. Hinske would fit right in along with Gabe, so I'd be fine with him as depth. That said, I'd just as soon have Branyan.

[kramnoj]

I was noticing that Hinske had played 3B for a couple of years and was wondering if he would be a good pickup to be a super corner sub. Then I checked his ZR and saw that he was at .722. Not good, there is a reason he's not playng there anymore. I agree that Branyan would be better, but it just seems that Yost doesn't like his approach.

[Postseason2006]

I'd take a guy like Darryl Hamilton over Mike Cameron any day of the week. Good leadoff hitter and a solid defender light years better than Juan Pierre.

What drives me nuts about Cameron's bat at the plate is his inability to get hits with runner's on and his solo homers. It would be nice if he would do that with runners on. He is a decent defender but no matter how you add up those plays, they are ones that cost us games.

[dadofandrew]

Cameron's numbers with runners on base is far better than his overall ones, though they are meaningless because they are a pretty small sample.

 

.396/.562 is pretty darn good if you ask me.

[kramnoj]

What drives me nuts about Cameron's bat at the plate is his inability to get hits with runner's on and his solo homers. It would be nice if he would do that with runners on.

 

Cameron has 22 HR, 9 of which have come with runners on scoring position. Hi 13 solo HR have come in 210 AB or 1 in 16 AB. His 9 HR with men on have come in 121 AB, or one in 13 AB. If you look at numbers without context, you won't be likely to have complete understanding of what is going on.

 

As far as getting hits with runners on, his OPS with runners on is 958, with bases empty is 790.

 

He is a decent defender but no matter how you add up those plays, they are ones that cost us games.

 

Cameron's ZR has him tied for 10th in the majors among CF. Nobody is disputing that he has had bad plays that have contributed to Brewers losses, but he has made more good plays than bad.

[sveumrules]

dadofandy/kramnoj, what do all these numbers mean? they must be wrong because i can remember at least five or six times where men were on base and cameron not only didn't get a hit, but struck out to boot. i think the elias sports bureau is surely just playing a trick on you with all these "statistics" that dispute my selective memory

[PrimeTime955]

dadofandy/kramnoj, what do all these numbers mean? they must be wrong because i can remember at least five or six times where men were on base and cameron not only didn't get a hit, but struck out to boot. i think the elias sports bureau is surely just playing a trick on you with all these "statistics" that dispute my selective memory

Was that supposed to be in blue?

[PeaveyFury]

Was that supposed to be in blue?

 

Yeah, I think it was definitely sarcasm.

[JumpinMacFlash]

I really like Cameron, and think he's done a good job this season. Do I wish we could spend his $10 million option elsewhere? Sure, but what better option is there? As others have previously stated, his offensive production has been very solid even though he missed the first month of the season. You're probably going to have to overpay for someone to take his place, whether in a trade or free agency. Does anyone else really want to give up more prospects for a better CF? What would it cost in prospects to get someone that has better defense and offensive production in center than Cameron? The same question with free agency. You either pay a high cost one way or throw in a young player that doesn't have the same offensive potential (Gwynn), isn't ready (Brantley or Cain), or shift around your current defenders once again. How many times do we really want to shift players to different positions?

[nate82]

I love Cameron a lot but I think trading for Taveras would be a better idea. 60 SB this year so far is awesome. This would also move Weeks from the lead off spot which I don't is a good fit for him. If Weeks stinks it up next year out of the lead off spot then I say it is time to give up on him and let him go.

[JumpinMacFlash]

Career Totals:

Taveras - 1902 AB, .287/.333/.342/.675

Weeks - 1533 AB, .244/.351/.403/.754

 

I'd like Rickie to be lower in the order too because I think it would take some pressure off of him, but if you're going to replace him at leadoff, Tarveras isn't the best choice. Also, Cameron's career numbers are better than Taveras's with a much larger sample, and going off of his last couple of years, he doesn't seem to be slowing down.

[JumpinMacFlash]

I was looking at JSOnline and this Haudricourt article basically echoes what's already been said here.

[endaround]

The funny thing is that Haudricort assumes a .230/.320/.481 line for a CFer is bad.

[logan82]

The batting AVG and OBP are a little low, but the average CF doesn't SLG .481. More like .420, this year anyway.

[Never Outhustled]

I love Cameron a lot but I think trading for Taveras would be a better idea.

The only way a team can improve there expected runs scored is to improve its team OPS. Tarvares is a significant downgrade from Cameron in OPS, so he would cause us to score fewer runs. Also, his OPS would have a greater impact on the team OPS, as he'd get more plate appearences than Cameron does because the leadoff spot gets more ABs. That increases the negative impact Tavares would have.

[trwi7]

I love Cameron a lot but I think trading for Taveras would be a better idea.

In all honesty, I'd rather have Gwynn start.

[Brian the Automator]

Tavares has a career .676 OPS, and a career .334. Why would we want him batting leadoff?

[Foofty]

I know Kapps has played all 3 OF positions this year, and has average D, he almost always delivers with clutch hits when needed, and has 150% better plate discipline than Cameron.

 

And is Cheap!

 

save money, cut crap contracts i.e. cameron/gagme and sign CC http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

I like Kapps in 09 CF

[trwi7]

and has 150% better plate discipline than Cameron.

That is so far from the truth. I think people confuse "plate discipline" with "making contact."

[kramnoj]

I know Kapps has played all 3 OF positions this year, and has average D, he almost always delivers with clutch hits when needed, and has 150% better plate discipline than Cameron.

 

Why do you think Gabe has better discipline than Cameron, because he strikes out less? Kapler has 10 walks compared to 210 ABs. One standard that I've seen is 1 walk per 10 ABs, so Kapler has about half as many as he should have. Cameron meanwhile has 44 BB compared to 334 AB. So he is doing better than the standard. Just in terms of OBP, Cameron is doing better than Kapler, .337 to .332. Cameron Ks a lot, no question, but for the most part a K isn't more damaging than a regular out.

 

I like Kapler alot, but he has never been this good. I read a comment from a Red Sox fan elsewhere that Kapler's bat is faster this year, and it may be because he has actually slimmed down a little, gained a little flexibilty. I hope he does come back next year as the super OF sub, but he is not starting material. Even if he has found a perfect form this season, it will be difficult to regain that next season.

[homer]

After today's game, Cameron has an .873 OPS (.257/.345/.528) - best OPS by a centerfielder in the national league.