What do we do with the outfield next year?

[FVBrewerFan]

Where do the Nelson brothers fit in? Nelson Cruz and Brad Nelson? Two OF just raking in AAA during the prime of their careers, and you never hear a word about them. If they're not in the Brewers plans, why shouldn't they have been traded by now? Maybe I'm over-estimating their value, but you would think someone (if not the Brewers) would want to give one of these guys a shot. I know Cruz has had opportunities in the past, but Nelson has never been given a chance. Is he that pathetic defensively? Is their something about his swing or approach that doesn't translate to MLB?

 

Just seems odd you have two guys in AAA putting up huge numbers, and the Brewers are getting nothing out of it.

[Teatoe993]

I thought Nelson Cruz was still Rangers' property. Correct me if I am wrong.

[lukevan]

I used to be on the Hart to CF train but I think he remains in RF. Braun in LF and Cameron comes back to man CF.

 

Brewers won't move Gamel yet IMO; he should start in AAA at 3B to see if he can stick there, gotta take the chance he can become serviceable defensively.

[silversurferr]

Let Cameron go, move Weeks to center, Hardy to second, Escobar starts at short. Spend the savings on pitching.

[FVBrewerFan]

I thought Nelson Cruz was still Rangers' property. Correct me if I am wrong.

OMG, am I stupid. Forget Nelson Cruz, ammend my post to just Brad Nelson.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I do think Cam should and will be back next year, but one argument to the contrary is how do the Brewers get more OBP into the lineup. Certainly Weeks underperformance is a part of the problem, but CF is often a speed and OBP position. With all the mashers in the Brewers lineup, is there an ability to trade some of Cam's SLG for someone else's OBP, while keeping the defense and clubhouse presence at a similar dollar amount? Cam's OPS is very solid, I just wonder how it fits into maximizing overall run production for the team.

[kramnoj]

The issue is not whether or not Cameron is worth $10M; the issue is that is it better to have Cameron at $10M and one of Sheets/Sabathia, or is it better to have Kapler at $3M and both of Sheets/Sabathia. Oh, and Fielder, Hardy, and Hart (plus Bush and Weeks) are arby-eligible next year too. It may come down to Cameron vs. the raise due Fielder/Hardy/Hart/Bush.

 

If the team keeps all players that are on this team that are under contract for next year and due arby raises, there won't be room for both Cameron and a top FA pitcher. I ran some estimates in the FA thread in the proposals forum, and if my arby estimates correct, and assuming a payroll of about $90 million, I think the Brewers have about $20 million to spend in FA or in picking up options. That probably won't be enough for CC, it would be enough for Sheets but the Brewers won't pay him that much, or it might be enough to pick up Cameron's option and sign a mid level FA SP, or a couple of RP this offseason.

 

Obviously things could change. Hall could be traded to a team that needs a SS and is willing to take a chance that he can find his 35 HR swing. Plenty of people here want Suppan and his salary gone, but I don't think the Brewers have any interest in that, unless they get blown away by an offer. Even then, we'd need to spend close to his salary for another pitcher to replace him.

[Invader3K]

Let Cameron go, move Weeks to center, Hardy to second, Escobar starts at short. Spend the savings on pitching.

Move Weeks to CF? The guy can barely handle 2B as it is...CF is a much tougher position. Putting Rickie the Butcher in the outfield would make Brewers fans call for Hall to move back to CF.

[DougJones43]

Heck Hall could give that level of production out there...

Then why isn't he now?

 

.223 / .292 / . 404 / .696

IS NOT EQUAL (or even close) TO

.244 / .333 / .506 / .839

 

We've seen Hall's efforts defensively in CF, and he's certainly not in the same class as Cameron. Taking all of that into account, saying Hall could match Cameron's production seems pretty silly.

 

I agree that the Brewers should pick up his option, and I think they will.

[Invader3K]

I do like the power Cameron brings. 21 homers in less than four months playing time is pretty good for a CF.

[crewcrazy]

He has not been that great defensively. He misplayed a ball in Colorado to cost the Brewer a game. He also misplayed a ball hit by Berkman this year that turned into a triple. Sure he has a bunch of solo homeruns, he's also left a ton of base this year.

So because he's misplayed two or three balls this year that let in runs, he's not a good defender? He's still the Brewers' best defender, and the ground he's capable of covering has gone a long way in making Ryan Braun look like a decent outfielder. How is it his fault that there's nobody on base when he hits his home runs? It wouldn't happen so much if Hart had a decent OBP and Ned wasn't so fascinated with batting Counsell 6th.

[gregmag]

I agree 100% with my fellow statheads' defense of the year Cameron is having. By any reasonable objective analysis he has played very well.

 

IMHO, however, people are assuming too easily that Cameron will do at 36 what he's done at 35. He has been an odd combination of old and young players' skills, power and walks plus speed and defense, but his skill set seems to be trending old. As recently as 2005/06 he was a .270 hitter over almost 1000 PA; now I think we'd all agree he's a legit .245 hitter. That's fine; with his defense, .245/.330/.500 is great production. But the attrition rate for players in their 30s accelerates for every year of age. Cameron could easily hit .225 next year, with an OBP closer to .310, and at that point he starts to hurt you. He could also lose two steps on defense, or get hurt. 36-year olds do those kinds of things all the time.

 

The trick, of course, is projection. I'm not claiming to have a crystal ball; I'm just listing some of the negative factors, and I think they're significant. I won't be upset if Cameron is the Brewers' CF next year, but I think the FO would be fools not to take his contributions this year with a grain of salt and to look seriously at any other good options that might arise.

 

Greg.

[joepepsi]

But the attrition rate for players in their 30s accelerates for every year of age. Cameron could easily hit .225 next year, with an OBP closer to .310, and at that point he starts to hurt you. He could also lose two steps on defense, or get hurt. 36-year olds do those kinds of things all the time.

Good point. After all, 4 weeks ago on July 28th he was hitting .224/.314 and people were ready to bench him. Including me, who had defended him all year to that point.

[PrimeTime955]

I really don't think it's a question if they are going to pick up Cam's option but rather when. I do not see a better option then Mike Cameron in centerfield next season. And like many others have said, at 10 mil, it's pretty cheap for what your getting. If he didn't have the suspension, there wouldn't even be an opportunity to have an option year at 10 mil for him.

 

Brantley and Can will both get full season's in at AAA next year (assuming they aren't in the Sabathia trade) and hopefully one of them is ready to start in 2010.

 

I thought that Gamel might be ready for a full season in the majors next year but he's shown signs of being human over the last month. There is really no reason to try and push him into a corner OF spot just yet. Let him grow at third in AAA as well.

[fondybrewfan]

I am not sold on Cameron's option next year. I mean they could decline the option keep Braun & Hart out there, sign a lower priced CF in order to keep some salary for the arby guys and long term contract offers. Then in 2010 you can go with Gamel out there and one of Hart and Braun in CF. That is probably assuming that Hart is signed long term. If he isn't 2010 is probably around the time when he would get traded one would think.

[silversurferr]

He's been good in the field, but those three errors were biggies. He's also been as good as could be expected at the plate. I am fine with him returning - unless we can find a lefty, leadoff batting, contact-hitting speedster with a gold glove to replace him. (and 2B is more difficult than CF).

[DuWayne Steurer]

The problem with the perception of defense is that people will remember the 2 or 3 misplayed balls he's had all year, and won't remember the dozens of balls that he's easily caught up to that Bill Hall wouldn't have even sniffed. Even if Cam loses a step from this year to next, he's still light years better than Hall in the outfield, and Hall has struggled at the plate for going on 2 years now.

[Boy Jeenius]

Cameron's D has been borderline spectacular. You can go get a pitcher (like one of those is just laying around for free) or you can keep a guy who can run down all of those balls hit in the gap. Any offense we're getting is a bonus, and the pop in his bat is most welcome, if a bit streaky. I have no idea who people think we could just go out get to play CF with no problem (on the cheap and specifying a left handed bat to boot). Outfield stays as is.

[Darnell Junior]

I think it's surprising to most to find out that Cameron's offensive production is superior to Hart's at this point in the season. I think if you asked 100 people who was having a better season more than 95 would say Hart. That just goes to show you how misleading batting average can be. Heck, most of my friends still think Kapler should be playing over Cameron.

[jjfanec]

I think it's surprising to most to find out that Cameron's offensive production is superior to Hart's at this point in the season. I think if you asked 100 people who was having a better season more than 95 would say Hart. That just goes to show you how misleading batting average can be. Heck, most of my friends still think Kapler should be playing over Cameron.

This is a good point, but I would not say he has been superior. If you look at their stats they are pretty much identical. Cameron has a little higher OBP and OPS, but it is a very small number. Hart has the lead in SB and even though he has K'ed a fair amount he is way below what Cameron has done in K/PA. I thank that makes it about a wash in my mind.

[joepepsi]

I am fine with him returning - unless we can find a lefty, leadoff batting, contact-hitting speedster with a gold glove to replace him. (and 2B is more difficult than CF).

Ladies and Gentleman, batting leadoff for your 2009 Opening Day Milwaukee Brewers: Juan Pierre!

[BrewCrewBaseball]

You dont put guys in the outfield that hit .230 unless they hit 30 + HR's a season...

 

Guys that play the outfield are typically power hitting players unless your hitting over .300... which the Brewer dont have except for Braun.

 

If Weeks moved to center it would be a wasted postion...

[kramnoj]

Guys that play the outfield are typically power hitting players unless your hitting over .300... which the Brewer dont have except for Braun.

 

If Weeks moved to center it would be a wasted postion...

 

I don't think Weeks to CF is a good idea, but his bat, even this year, could play there. His 715 OPS would place him 17th among qualified CF.

[TooLiveBrew]

With great defense in center. I don't understand all the anti-Cameron talk I hear. What kind of production was everyone expecting? The guy strikes out 140 times a year, hits .250 with a lot of walks, and goes 20-20. I'll take that in center any day of the week.

 

There's just a lot of stubbornness & ignorance imho. Dangit, he struck out those times, and those 3 defensive plays... what a bum!

 

Cameron is the best defensive CF the Brewers have had since I can remember. On top of that, he's exceeded or met offensive expectations. To say anything else about his offense is just, well, untrue. As long as people keep beating the 'OMG LOW AVG' drum, we'll get mired in these strange debates. Did you hear that Adam Dunn sucks?

 

 

You dont put guys in the outfield that hit .230 unless they hit 30 + HR's a season...

 

Honestly, go do some homework on the CF position.

[Sundown Kid]

I still hear people ripping Cameron. Mike Heller from Madison's ESPN 1070 was recently complaining about what a disappointment Cameron has been (Of course he's an amateur psychiatrist who also blames Ben Sheets's poor run on Sabathia-envy). I think much of the problem stems from completely unreasonable expectations. His career batting average (yes I realize it's an overrated statistic) is .250, yet people seemed to expect more. He has struck out a lot--Well, he always has. He was dropped from the #2 spot in the order--He never should have been put there in the first place, as Yost was trying to pound a square peg into a round hole. These days an .800+ hitter with a gold-caliber glove in CF is a bargain at $10 million.