What do we do next season? Durham or Weeks?

[moofnelson]

...he still has a chance to be a well above avg second baseman offensively at a relatively low contract.

I think that may the most important factor in the Brewers decision for second base next year. Weeks will make somewhere between 1 and 2 million next year. The Brewers will probably just keep him and cross their fingers.

[JohnBriggs12]

Considering Weeks has scored 75 runs in 103 games (which correlates to 117 in 162), I don't think this season is such a horrible failure for Weeks. And his post All-Star numbers: .270/.383/.427 are quite acceptable. Of course that is with him being replaced with Durham against some right handers and we've fallen into the trap at looking at a portion of his season before and he's yet to really have a good full season.

 

The key in this whole discussion is Michael Brantley. Assuming he's not the PTBNL in the CC deal, he's got leadoff hitter skills. He might not be ready until mid 2009 at the earliest so it might behoove them to hold onto Weeks a big longer. But if Brantley shows he can jump to AAA and put up numbers, then you can deal Weeks.

 

I like Ellis a lot as a guy who could fill in for a year or two at a fairly reasonable price. He's had some good offensive seasons and he's very, very dependable defensively. He'd make the Brewers a lot better defensively. But he's not an ideal leadoff guy, but he's done it and his OBP in the leadoff spot (.348), is 11 points higher than his career OBP of .337.

 

I think Hardy is a lot more likely to end up either at 3rd base or be traded down the line than ever play 2nd.

[BrewCrewBaseball]

The key in this whole discussion is Michael Brantley. Assuming he's not the PTBNL in the CC deal, he's got leadoff hitter skills. He might not be ready until mid 2009 at the earliest so it might behoove them to hold onto Weeks a big longer. But if Brantley shows he can jump to AAA and put up numbers, then you can deal Weeks.

I agree with you.. but I hardly think Brantly will be that guy.. They gave up enough.. it should be someone else...

 

 

(pared back long quote --1992)

[Gobias Industries]

False. BA is NOT meaningless, after all it is a huge component of OBP and therefore OPS. It is overemphasized for certain, but it essentially necessary to judge how a player performed.

Certainly not saying hits are meaningless. When you can look at SLG and OBP, I don't need to see the stat.

[dadofandrew]

I realize he'll only play maybe 100 games this season, but he is still hitting .299/.345/.400

 

Weeks is hitting .335/.380...why bring in a old guy when you have that now.

 

Gobias, BA is meaningless to me too. It does make up much of OBP...that's why I don't care about it. It's included, and OBP counts other ways of not getting out, while BA does not. That's why I don't use it.

[joepepsi]

I don't think Rickie is the one to replace. Seems I have to post this everyday and it seems the Rickie haters ignore it everyday:

 

Since June 1: .261/.346/.411 .757 OPS

Hall same period: .218/.287/.385 .672 OPS

Counsell: .228/.329/.307 .636 OPS

 

I too want more out of Rickie, but so far, at 25 years old he is hitting like a league average 2B. Brian Roberts wasn't any better at 25.

 

But Bill Hall is just terrible. I know casual Brewer fans have a soft spot for Hall, but it's time to let that go. And there are many better options for a backup infielder than Counsell. He's done, folks.

 

Keep Weeks. Trade Hall to someone like the Orioles who could use him at ss; offer Counsell a job in the organization. FIND A GOOD 3B! Oh, and a quality veteran starting pitcher. And keep Branyan and Kapler.

[lcbj68c]

The reason it is ignored so much as it only tells the story about his offense. And if you only want "average hitting" for half a season, then I guess keep pimping those "since June" stats.

[jeffh]

I would rather have Durham. I heard him talk a few days ago and he seems very smart man. Weeks needs to go.

[lcbj68c]

I would rather have Durham. I heard him talk a few days ago and he seems very smart man. Weeks needs to go.

I'm guessing it didn't sound something like, "you know, i just got to you know start hitting better you know and fielding you know the ball, you know?

[joepepsi]

The reason it is ignored so much as it only tells the story about his offense. And if you only want "average hitting" for half a season, then I guess keep pimping those "since June" stats.

Actually it's been 74% of his plate appearances, not just half a season, but don't the let the truth spoil a good rant.

 

I'm not going to argue Rickie is a great defensive player, and taking into consideration defense stats are a suspect study, but here's his numbers compared to Orlando Hudson.

RiWeeks: 860 innings, 212PO, 263 assists, 68 DP, 9 errors, .981 fldg pct, 4.90 Range Factor vs. 4.06 league RF.

Hudson: 904.7 innings; 200 PO, 284 assists, 60 DP, 9 errors, .982 fldg pct, 4.61 Range Factor vs. 4.06 league RF.

[BrewCrewBaseball]

The reason it is ignored so much as it only tells the story about his offense. And if you only want "average hitting" for half a season, then I guess keep pimping those "since June" stats.

Actually it's been 74% of his plate appearances, not just half a season, but don't the let the truth spoil a good rant.

What numbers are you talking about with Weeks? 74% of the season he has hit .260/.360+OBP? That cant be right? There are 34 games left which is roughly 78% of the season has passed.. maybe a little more? He's batting nowhere close to that? he's at .229/ .335 now?

 

I must be reading that wrong? Are you talking about his career? Casue the thats .244/.351?

 

 

(pared back long quote --1992)

[BrewCrewBaseball]

The reason it is ignored so much as it only tells the story about his offense. And if you only want "average hitting" for half a season, then I guess keep pimping those "since June" stats.

AMEN Brother! I hate those "since then" stats....

[sheethead]

Actually it's been 74% of his plate appearances, not just half a season, but don't the let the truth spoil a good rant.

 

If you are allowed to cherry pick certain PA's, you can make Rickie's numbers look downright scary. If you take out his 95 K's and 24 other non-producing AB's, for a total of 119 (26% of total PA's), Rickie is batting an astoundng .330/.519/.548!! I can see why some are so high on his upside, he has been simply amazing in 74% of his PA's.

[bcf5575]

i dont see durham playing a big role next year - definitely not as a starter.

 

i think the biggest problem with weeks is that he cant mentally handle hitting lead off or playing 2b. i would like to see him playing cf or rf and hitting 6th next year and then lets see what he can do. I still think (i have been saying this all year) that he looks like he is trying so hard to be a "lead off hitter" that he has turned into a headcase at the plate. he takes too many good pitches early in the count and swings at crap when he is down in the count.

 

he is so tremendously athletic - lets put him in lower pressure spots and see what he can do. i think he will thrive...

[lcbj68c]

AMEN Brother! I hate those "since then" stats....

I don't get it either. Would you rather have a guy hit .299/.360/.400 over an entire season or a guy that hits .261/.350/.430 from June to August?

[monty57]

Sure his AVG was low, but the BA stat is 100% meaningless.

 

False. BA is NOT meaningless, after all it is a huge component of OBP and therefore OPS. It is overemphasized for certain, but it essentially necessary to judge how a player performed.

 

If you look at Weeks's stats, he is K'ing a little less this year, but walking considerably less (2007 -- 16%, 2008 11%). I don't think he is going to walk at a 16% rate again, so the

answer for Weeks to get his OPS above guys like Aaron Miles is to hit the ball better -- which he should have the talent to do.

 

As far as his D, he still has weak footwork, and that sidearm throw he makes turning DPs is pretty sad. I really think if he was to become a good defender it would have happened

by now.

Well put, FtJ.

 

That said, I think Weeks will be back next year, as he will be relatively inexpensive. A season like he's having shouldn't merit a huge pay raise, and there aren't a lot of other 2B options that would get better "bang for the buck," although I would love to see them trade for Brian Roberts if they could sign him to an extension. Otherwise, the price tag may be too high for one year.

 

I don't see any way Durham will be a Brewer in 2009... they'll need a more versatile player as a backup infielder with Counsell gone. So, to answer the thread's title, Weeks is probably a better answer than Durham. Even though he's having a decent year, Cameron will be gone next year, as he's not worth $10MM. Our best bet is probably to add an OBP machine at CF next year that could be our leadoff guy, allowing Rickie to bat 6 or 7 in the lineup. Of course, we tried that this past offseason, and got Cameron after Melvin couldn't find the OBP guy he was looking for.

 

I also agree with the group that says that Hardy would make a better 3B than 2B. One of his best defensive assets is his strong arm, which you don't need at 2B. His only deficiency (which isn't as bad as some seem to make it) is a slight lack of range, which you don't need as much at 3B as at 2B. He seems to have good reflexes which is very important at 3B. Also, staying on the same side of the infield should be easier than moving to the other side. Of course, all of this is moot if Gamel is kept at 3B. It would seem that if the Brewers didn't really think he could play there, they would have moved him already, but who knows. If he can play 3B, they might keep Hall / Branyan around until Gamel has enough AAA experience (and is past Super 2) to take over, and we'd see Hall dealt or moved to "super sub" status at that point.

[joepepsi]

AMEN Brother! I hate those "since then" stats....

I don't get it either. Would you rather have a guy hit .299/.360/.400 over an entire season or a guy that hits .261/.350/.430 from June to August?

Pretty much the entire team hit like crap for the first two months of the season. Few players hit the exact same average every week. (See Hardy, JJ). I wasn't cherry picking Rickie's stats as Mr. Snarky Poster suggested. I was pointing out that Rickie hasn't been hitting that bad for the last 13 weeks. That's a significant amount of time.

 

I agree he has lots of room for improvement. And he hasn't gone on a big tear like Hardy that would make us forget his terrible Spring. But since June 1, he's been hitting like a historically average 2B:.261/.346/.411 . 757OPS. And while observation tells us he's a poor defender, defense statistics don't really show that.

 

Bill Hall is the real problem, but that's for another day and another topic.

[lcbj68c]

If I am a GM, I'm looking for above average ballplayers, both in the field and offensively. I don't see the need to settle for mediocre in 2009. For me, the hourglass has run dry for Mr. Weeks. They've given it more than a fair shake and it's time to go in a different direction. It can be sugar-coated however you want, cherry pick the stats that best suit the pro arguments, that's fine. I prefer to look at the overall picture and as Pro-Weeks guys point out, it's .244/.351/.402 without even touching on defense. Again, that's great that we can find some nice stats somewhere, perhaps he's .608/.692/1.085 on day games, in the month of July, South of North Carolina, but West of Mississippi. It's going on 4 plus years and the overall picture isn't impressive. I don't know what else I can say about this topic that hasn't already been said. I hope he comes up with some big hits down the stretch and personally for him, I hope he realizes all of his potentials some place else very soon. On the better chance that he doesn't, I'm hoping it's not in Milwaukee, WI.

[Fatter than Joey]

Weeks is hitting .335/.380... Gobias, BA is meaningless to me too.

 

Then you guys need to take care to not make sloppy statements like the above -- Weeks is NOT hitting .335

 

Certainly not saying hits are meaningless. When you can look at SLG and OBP, I don't need to see the stat.

 

Sure you do. Weeks OBP is down from 2008 to 2007 -- Why? --- Don't even insinuate a guy as smart as you is not going to check to see if his

hit rate has declined or his walk rate declined.

 

The scary thing to me, is that the decline in Weeks's OBP is due to a decreased lack of BBs, and his BA is more constant.. If Weeks OBP was worse because his BA was lower, I'd have

an easier time considering it random -- a decline in BB's is a bit more troublesome.

[endaround]

Even though he's having a decent year, Cameron will be gone next year, as he's not worth $10MM.

I can't let this go, Cameron could easily end up being like 5 runs above replacement when factoring in defense in a shortened season. He's clearly worth more than $10 million. Right now I see no way the Brewers don't pick up the option even if just to trade him (though he has some no trade protection). I think alot depends if the Brewers see Brantley as a starting CFer in the future, in which case Cameron for 1 year is a great thing.

[BrewCrewBaseball]

endaround[/b]]

monty57[/b]]Even though he's having a decent year, Cameron will be gone next year, as he's not worth $10MM.

I can't let this go, Cameron could easily end up being like 5 runs above replacement when factoring in defense in a shortened season. He's clearly worth more than $10 million. Right now I see no way the Brewers don't pick up the option even if just to trade him (though he has some no trade protection). I think alot depends if the Brewers see Brantley as a starting CFer in the future, in which case Cameron for 1 year is a great thing.

 

I agree with you on that. At first Cam was a piece of crap. Wasn't doing anything to start the season. He really has come along and been hitting the ball extremely well. Plus he is taking a nice relaxed approach to the plate. I can see the Brewers picking up the option, unless they want to try and re-sign one the two aces as a first priority.

[logan82]

I have to agree that 3B is more of a concern than 2B. Hall has been worse at the plate and doesn't exactly play good defense either. I think it would be best for Hall to go back to being a supersub.

 

I also hope they pick up Cameron's option if for no other reason than it keeps slappy jr. out of our starting lineup. It has been really nice to see what a real CF looks like. That is even ignoring the fact that he has outproduced Hart so far this year. I think our outfield is pretty good defensivly and offensivly.

[joepepsi]

I have to agree that 3B is more of a concern than 2B. Hall has been worse at the plate and doesn't exactly play good defense either. I think it would be best for Hall to go back to being a supersub.

I'd rather have Hall in Counsell's place for next year. He probably won't have much trade value with that contract, so that seems to be the best use for him.

I also hope they pick up Cameron's option if for no other reason than it keeps slappy jr. out of our starting lineup. It has been really nice to see what a real CF looks like. That is even ignoring the fact that he has outproduced Hart so far this year. I think our outfield is pretty good defensivly and offensivly.

Oh now you're just cherry picking stats. You're only looking at what Cameron has done since August 1st.

[logan82]

joepepsi wrote:

Oh now you're just cherry picking stats. You're only looking at what Cameron has done since August 1st.

I know blue is sarcasm, but just so everybody knows

 

Braun .300/.340/.589/.928

Cameron .244/.333/.506/.839

Hart .287/.322/.499/.821

 

Sorry for going so far off topic.

[Fatter than Joey]

I agree with you on that. At first Cam was a piece of crap. Wasn't doing anything to start the season.

 

I think he was pressing after the suspension.