Who will Cleveland pick? Latest -- It's Brantley for sure (reply #178ish)

[paul253]

Sorry if this is being discussed elsewhere, but I wanted to see if anyone had any inside information on who Cleveland is leaning towards taking as the Player to be Named Later in the Sabathia deal. All I know is whoever it is, we are going to lose a very good prospect.

 

If I remember correctly, the 4 players on the list are Green, Lucroy, Cain, and Brantley. I took a quick look at the Indians top 10 prospects and it looks like they have 3 outfielders on the list, which would make you think they wouldnt go after Cain and Brantley. The have Victor Martinez who is one of the best catchers in the game, when healthy, but you can never have too many catchers. The name I heard most when the trade happened was Taylor Green.

 

I guess if I had to pick, in order, who i would want to see traded, it would go like this.

 

1) Lorenzo Cain-starting to hit in Huntsville, and has tons of tools, but we have a lot of outfield prospects and I think Brantley is exactly the kind of player we need.

2) Taylor Green-playing third base although he's really a second basemen. As much as I want to see Weeks gone, we have nobody to replace him. Green would still be at least 2 years away, but has more walks than strikeouts and I think would be an ideal number 2 hitter

3) Jonathon Lucroy- As much as I dont want to trade one of the only legitimate catching prospects we've had in years, we do have Salome as well. I wonder if whoever Cleveland picks (Green v Lucroy) would affect what position Brett Lawrie plays full time

4) Michael Brantley-The ideal leadoff hitter for a team that hasnt had one in years. His Strikeout rate is unheard of, and he can steal some bases. Not sure what his defense is like,but I dont see why he couldnt be a certian fielder. I think we need him to set the table and put the ball in play ahead of guys like Braun, Fielder, Hart and Gamel.

[Mass Haas]

Two on the list, four on the list, we really have no idea.

 

I'd be stunned if the Indians didn't want whoever they pick to play for the organization for at least a week or so, just to acclimate and be welcomed in something other than fall instructionals.

 

But yeah, it'd be nice to get the mystery over with already.

[brewmann04]

yes this needs to get over quickly just for the player aspect.

[DonMoney4Mgr]

If Brantley is part of the Sabbathia deal, I am done with Doug Melvin. He is exactly the type of player this team needs to balance it out. .331 avg./.409 OB (.412 against lefties, .408 against righties) 45 BB/22 SO, 31 steals, bats lefthanded. Also, voted to have the "best idea of the strikezone" in the southern league.

 

Forget about LaPorta, guys like Brantley don't come around that often. He would sure look good in a brewer uniform next year batting leadoff.

[And That]

If Brantley can learn to hit for a modicum of power and if he can learn to play an average center field (his arm is below average, so his range better not be), he could be a great leadoff hitter. As it stands now, Cain is playing CF every day for Huntsville, while Brantley has been pushed to LF again. To me that means the Brewers view Cain as the better CF prospect (and he has a very good arm) long term. If Brantley's defense doesn't take in CF, might still be able to fit into the lineup long-term if Hart or Cain wind up in CF and Braun is moved to RF. If neither Cain not Brantley are traded, an outfield of Brantley-Cain-Braun is a plausible guess for a few years from now.

 

It would make more sense to trade an OF or a C than a 2B/3B (namely Taylor Green) because we're better stocked at both of those positions in the minors. Take out Brantley or Cain, and you still have Brantley or Cain, plus Gillespie, Gindl, maybe Gamel, maybe Lucroy, etc. Take out Lucroy and you still have Salome, Lawrie and Fryer.

 

All of the guys most mentioned - Cain, Lucroy, Brantley and Green - are top 10 prospects, and it's going to suck if we lose one of them. But who knows, maybe Cleveland is going after Brewer or Bell or something.

 

I too hope they make a decision soon... it is getting kind of distracting looking at the box scores and thinking "what if it's this guy?"

[paul253]

I just hope its not Brantley. We need him....we havent had a guy that can constantly put the ball in play since Mark Lorretta. As good as our hitters are, they are all proned to strikeouts and its seems like everyone is pull happy. If they take Green or Lucroy, what are the odds that we keep Hart and move him back to first to replace Fielder? It would be another upgrade defensively and open up one more outfield slot for the likes of Cain, Brantley, Gamel and Gillespie. Also too, if Cain has a better arm than Brantley, wouldnt it make more sense to play him in rightfield?

[JJHardy7]

I just hope its not Brantley. We need him....we havent had a guy that can constantly put the ball in play since Mark Lorretta. As good as our hitters are, they are all proned to strikeouts and its seems like everyone is pull happy. If they take Green or Lucroy, what are the odds that we keep Hart and move him back to first to replace Fielder? It would be another upgrade defensively and open up one more outfield slot for the likes of Cain, Brantley, Gamel and Gillespie. Also too, if Cain has a better arm than Brantley, wouldnt it make more sense to play him in rightfield?

 

I agree with you, but it's so hard to project A and AA players to the majors. The chances of all 4 becoming starters are most likely small. IMO I'd rather give up the player furthest from the majors in terms of years and not current level. What player is that? That's another thing hard to project. I guess I wouldn't mind giving up Green and after thinking about it he might be the guy I'd be ok with. It's just so hard to project future value. I do have a feeling it would be Brantley and as much as I like the guy especially from what I've seen in person his power will be a major thing with him. If it develops, he's a stud, if it doesn't he could struggle as he moves to AAA and possibly the bigs.

[And That]

Also too, if Cain has a better arm than Brantley, wouldnt it make more sense to play him in rightfield?

While Cain has a far superior arm to Brantley, he also has better range and more natural athleticism than Brantley. If Cain can play CF, that's where his value is maximized. He may well end up in RF long term, though, depending on how his instincts in the outfield develop.

 

Brantley keeps getting moved off of CF because other guys have a better chance to stick there (at least, according to the Brewers). It's not like you can just plop Michael Brantley in CF and say "be good out there" - it takes work, and it's work he's not getting right now. Right now he's a LF. With more work, maybe he becomes a decent CF. Maybe not. He'll certainly need to develop good range to make up for his arm.

[paul253]

Thanks for the input. One more question. Do you think that if Green or Lucroy is taken it will affect where Lawrie plays? It doesn't seem that he has a natural position, and the two i heard most are second and catcher. Obviously Green is a thirdbasemen right now, but he may end up at second base eventually because of guyslike Gamel and Hardy. I know you can never have too many catchers, but when two of your top five prospects are not only catchers, but they are just hitting the cover off the ball, I think it would better to put Lawrie at a position where he wouldnt be blocked by 2 players.

[twobrewers]

People do not appreciate Cain enough. I should know - I didn't start appreciating him until earlier this year.

 

Cain has a .377 OBP in Huntsville. Brantley has a .409 OBP.

 

Cain is a better fielder.

 

Cain also has much more power - which would suggest he is more likely to translate his numbers to the MLB level.

 

Brantley has a lot of potential, but don't ignore Cain.

[dadofandrew]

I agree, I don't want it to be Brantley either.

 

The others are all quality, but Cain strikes me a bit as a generic OF, so I would prefer it to be him.

[Never Outhustled]

As it stands now, Cain is playing CF every day for Huntsville, while Brantley has been pushed to LF again. To me that means the Brewers view Cain as the better CF prospect (and he has a very good arm) long term. If Brantley's defense doesn't take in CF,

 

Brantley is still recovering from his high ankle sprain, and won't be 100% until the offseason. I would putting him in LF is just a way to reduce the workload on his bum ankle.

I don't know where the idea that Cain has better natural range than Brantley came from. Brantley is every bit as fast, and the Brewers didn't use Cain as a CF until this year, and not until Brantley got hurt. Don Money has stated that Brantley "has turned the corner defensively in CF", and nobody is more critical of defense than Money.

I'm not ripping on Cain, I argued last season that he was a better prospect than Brantley, but that was before Brantley became a CF. I'm esctatic that after the PTBNL is named, we'll still have at least 1 of them.

The guy I'm hoping to hold on to the most is Lucroy. You simply don't find a catcher at any level with better pop times than Lucroy's at 1.68, thats amazing, and it shows in his caught stealing %. Salame is years away defensively,, while Lucroy could be a starting catcher defensivly right now.

To me, Taylor Green has the least upside because he has the least tools of anyone on the list. Green's offensive stats are really special when you curve them for the league he's in, but its possible he's very close to be maxxed out as a hitter. However, he plays an OK 3B, something Mat Gamel can't do, but the Brewers appear that they're go to stick with Gamel at 3B regardless. The Brewers don't need Green at 2B because they already have an extra middle infielder because of Escobar.

 

I would think Cleveland will take whoever there scouting staff feels is the best player, regardless of position, and I take solace in the fact that there scouting just isn't that good.

[pogokat]

The reason cain hasn't played much cf is because Darren Ford was the fastest guy in the system...Lorenzo Cain, along with Brent Brewer, and hopefully Brett Lawrie are the only true 5 tool guys in the system...and cain is actually developing all 5 of them pretty quickly...

 

this argument always comes off like one guy doesn't deserv to be a prospect...all of these guys are top 10 prospects for us..

 

oh, and lucroy is the one i'd hate to lose the most..

[And That]

Brantley is still recovering from his high ankle sprain, and won't be 100% until the offseason. I would putting him in LF is just a way to reduce the workload on his bum ankle.

If Cain and Brantley are on the same team and one of them has to play left field, most of the time it isn't going to be Lorenzo Cain. As Brad said, the only reason Cain hasn't played CF more previously is because he was on the same team with Darren Ford much of the time. As for "natural range" Brantley might be as fast as Cain (I guess I'd disagree with that, but whatever), but range is more than speed. Cain takes better routes to balls - he has better instincts. Brantley has been working on that and getting better, but again, there's a reason he's been bounced between 1B/LF/CF and Cain doesn't own a first baseman's mit.

 

Do you think that if Green or Lucroy is taken it will affect where Lawrie plays?

 

Not immediately. He'll be a catcher for at least a few years unless it's really clear early on he's not going to take. Roving catching instructor Charlie Greene has done wonders for a number of guys in the system and if there's anyone who can make a catcher out of Lawrie, it's Charlie.

[LouisEly]

If Green hit RH then I doubt that many people would think that he's really that special. The fact that he hits LH and the upper organizational need for LH to balance out all of the righties is the big reason people want to keep him. That being said, it wouldn't surprise me if the Brewers long-term vision of their infield is Hardy at 3B, Escobar at SS, Green at 2B, and Fielder/Gamel at 1B. A LH hitting 2B with pop and a good OBP is a nice bonus to have; Green will probably never be Utley, but I think that Fontenot is a very underrated component of the Cubs offense.

 

Lucroy is the one I would least like to lose. Has a similar OPS as Green at Brevard, above-average defensively, and in the event that all of their catchers develop, catchers command a lot of value in trade. Fortunately Cleveland took another high-A ball top catching prospect in another trade so maybe they won't want Lucroy as much. Look at it this way - would you trade Lucroy straight up for Green, Brantley, or Cain?

 

Brantley has some question marks (arm strength, power), but like Green being a LH hitter that carries extra value. I think eventually once Braun and Hart get more OF experience (Hart is relatively new to the OF also), one of them can/will be moved to CF allowing Brantley to play LF. Braun has speed and arm strength and once he gets experience playing OF he could be a good CF.

 

I think people generally prefer that Cain is the PTBNL because he plays OF and hits RH, the two biggest areas of surplus in the system. Nothing against Cain, he's a great prospect, but it's just just that the best way to improve a team overall is to trade from surplus.

 

I look on the bright side - after the PTBNL is named, they will still have three of Green, Lucroy, Brantley, and Cain. The cupboard will hardly be bare.

[Boy Jeenius]

It was made pretty clear in the AFL/Hawaii thread that Brantley is going to the AFL. Therefore it is highly unlikely that he his the player involved with the trade, as they have to plan a couple of months ahead of time for these rosters.

[PeaveyFury]

With both Cain and Gillespie now banged up near the end of their respective seasons and Green still on the DL, does that make LuCroy the choice by default?

 

It really does make it all that more puzzling that Cleveland would want this to drag out so long, as you'd think they would have preferred to have the guy get acclimated to their organization and go on their development schedule. This whole thing is very odd to me.

[Minigoon]

With both Cain and Gillespie now banged up near the end of their respective seasons and Green still on the DL, does that make LuCroy the choice by default?

I though Brantley was one also under consideration. At the time of the trade, he was on the DL. He's been playing pretty regularly now since then.

[Tbadder]

If he's on the list, why wouldn't they take Lucroy--great hitter at a premium position. I hope they take Brantley. The Brewers don't need more players without a position, who are defensively below average.

[yoshii8]

So do we know for sure if any of these 4 players are actually on the list? Is there a chance that it could be a lesser prospect?

[agent39]

Is there a chance that it could be a lesser prospect?

No.

[yoshii8]

Is there a chance that it could be a lesser prospect?

No.

 

What about a different prospect like Salome, Jeffress, Escobar, Gamel or Braddock?

[PrimeTime955]

Looking at the situation, it seems as if Agent39 knows who the player is. Based on that, it's probably one of his clients. Right off the bat that eliminates Lucroy. (Thank God) Brantley has already been named to the AFL and they usually need to know the team he is coming from so I'll say that eliminates him. So that leaves Lo Cain and Taylor Green. I'd hate to loose either but I'd much rather see Cain go than Green. Unfortunitly I'm guessing it's Green.

[ILuvDaBush]

If I had to put money on it, I'd let it all ride on Green. The Indians have beaucoup catchers, so I don't see how Lucroy would interest them. Cain/Green/Brantley...well it would seem Cain is the odd man out and with Brantley going to the AFL, that leaves only the 2007 Brewer Minor League Player of the Year. It's pretty disappointing, but then again, it's only 4 out of 5 days the Brewers play that I scowl.

[uwisfan]

just because agent knows its not a lesser prospect doesnt really eliminate Lucroy or Brantley, though it helps for Lucroy that he's at deep position. Even if he knows Green is in the running, that would be enough info to know its a bigger prospect.