Angel Salome on an incredible tear

[sbrylski]

If you take the thread title and pronounce "tear" like the crying kind, it sounds like a really far out description of an incredibly LSD inducted painting.

[molitor fan]

I am not going to argue merits of Salome, but this level of hitting for a catcher is pretty much unprescedented in the Southern League. Though he certainly can improve on things, if Salome's defense was on par with the St. Louis Molina, then Salome would be regarded as the best catching prospect to come into the higher rungs of baseball in at least a decade. As it is, he is a unique prospect.

[wvpowerblkwel]

Give Angel a chance! He is just turned 22, he is handling AA pitchers for the first season, he is just coming off a horrible ankle injury. If you remember, many of you guys didn't give him any credit after the suspension and he has delivered. He is still learning to catch at an advanced level and he does have a stick! I still project him as a major league catcher in the next season or two!http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/d962544964728e37c31ed60b11d2ef6110f02e8.jpg

[coach32sm]

Hey guys I'm still here coaching over in Europe, will be back after Labor Day. Just reading the posts, you guys are funny!!! Go see angel play and stop reading what everyone says. It's like one person says something and you all jump on the same topic.

Firstly Angel has "Great speed" He ran a 6.6 - 6.7 in HS don't forget he had surgery and has pins in his ankle, his running confidence is a little low, but he can run and will probably steal 20 bases in the bigs if they le him run. As far as his defense, he receives and frames very well, who said he doesn't ? I saw him for a week this year. Game calling!!! He calls his own game, who does any more? If he was so bad he wouldn't be. His big problem is his passed balls, and that is a mystery. He didn't have any when I was there and looked great. I'll go see him again and figure it out. Angel will be a real good catcher in the Show, hopefully in Sept or some time next year.

As far as his hitting, he does have a great RF approach. So did Manny in HS, al my great hitters do. That is the secret to great hitting. Angel will be a Pudge type hitter (during his "Big body days") Because of his short arms he doesn't get the extension of a 6'2 guy but has the power of one, so many balls go for doubles and not HR's. He has a weird physical approach at the plate and after seeing him I have some answers for him that I will work with him on this winter, he gets his weight out way too early, but does keep his hands back, that's one of the reasons he hits a lot of doubles and not long balls, he's a beast and gets away with it.

You guys should stop knocking him and go see him play with your own eyes, or better yet ask his pitching staff or coaches what they think of him, he's a class guy, a hard worker, leader and hell of a player. He wants to succeed so much and at times lets his emotions get the best of him but he's a good kid with a world of catching talent.

If the Brewers ever did want to move him, but God knows why they would, he can play 2B or Of with a little bit of work, he's an athlete, a good one. I hope you get to see him in Sept. I sure hope he continues hitting and wins another Batting title and another MVP.

Talk to you soon.

"COACH"

[Postseason2006]

He's got a whopping 3 errors also. This guy has a chance to be real good. The first legitimate C prospect since Dave Nilsson.

[piccione88]

Don Money, Angel's coach commented on his game calling and pitch framing abilities, so I would take his word since he sees him every day. Sometimes your perception of a player is off from reality, esspecially if you are just going off of a few games that you saw. Chances are Salome was just having a good day, because from all acounts he is not near ready yet defensivley.

 

I think Angel very well could be a very good, even great catcher given his skills, he has a rocket for an arm and is pretty athletic, which does not mean fast necessarily. He is only 22, so he should have at least a couple more seasons to show that he can play behind the plate. If Salome is even average back there, with his stick he could be a perennial all-star.

[coach32sm]

Where and when did Don Money say anything about Angel's game calling?? The coaches seemed pleased with him the time I spent there. Also why would the manager, who supposedly is criticizing his catcher, let him call his own game when 90% of the catchers in pro ball get the signals from the dugout??? Doesn't make sense to me. As I said, go see him and then give me a report. I did and I was pleasantly surprised!!! Remember I was in pro ball, had several of my HS players go the the show including a catcher and coached in the Minor leagues, so I think I have a little bit of a handle on what I see!!! "Coach"

[battlekow]

This is what Don Money had to say when Josh Kalk interviewed him for BCB:

BCB: I had seen Angel Salome play a couple years ago, and he showed a strong but incredibly inaccurate arm, and opponents were running wild on him, but this year his caught stealing numbers look a lot better. Is that coming around, and how much of an issue will that be going forward?

DM: It's coming around. I haven't seen him throw prior to this year but the thing with him is right back to the same thing as with [Mat] Gamel: footwork. He has a strong arm, actually a very strong arm, but if he just comes up out of his crouch and stands then he doesn't throw guys out. When that happens he is 2.10 to 2.15 seconds to second. When he stands up and takes a crow hop and then throws to second he is a flat 2, and last night he threw a guy out and was 1.98, which is good [That throw was in the dirt and needed a nice pick by Escobar to get the runner]. If he can do that on a consistent basis then he will be fine. He is blocking the ball pretty well, and he still needs to work on calling a game a bit better. He is falling into some patterns, like if the guy has a good changeup, you still don't call five changeups in a row. You can't do that because then the hitter gets to see it, so when you need the out, then you go to it. The other thing is knowing what the pitcher's best pitch is [that particular night]--maybe it is the curveball and not the changeup. He is doing a bit better on it, but it is something he still needs to work on. The other thing is he needs to work on framing the pitches better. When he calls for a slider away, you have to catch it like this [motions catching a ball and pulling it back toward the plate], not like this [glove keeps going outside]. You have to try to pull a few back for strikes, and that is something that good catchers do.

 

[Never Outhustled]

Also why would the manager, who supposedly is criticizing his catcher, let him call his own game when 90% of the catchers in pro ball get the signals from the dugout???

Sorry, but that statistic is not even close to being true.

 

Firstly Angel has "Great speed" He ran a 6.6 - 6.7 in HS don't forget he had surgery and has pins in his ankle, his running confidence is a little low, but he can run and will probably steal 20 bases in the bigs if they le him run.

Every scout that has seen him calls his speed well below average.

[homer]

"Every scout that has seen him calls his speed well below average. "

 

Not saying you're wrong but I'd be curious to read those scouting reports. I don't remember speed being a huge issue when he was drafted. Or have you talked to scouts personally?

[Never Outhustled]

I don't talk to scouts, but BA does, and his lack of speed is in there profile of him, and we had an article in here earlier in the year with comments from a scout who stated the need for Angel to dramitically improve his defense because his speed wouldn't allow him to play anywhere else, to just name a few.

[MadScientist]

Reading X elence's take on Money's comments, I thought Money had really called out Angel. Reading the actual comments, it looks like Angel needs a good bit of work, but has promise and is improving. I can't say how it will turn out, but nothing makes me want to try to dump him to an AL team while the value is high.

 

Of course reading Coach's comments, I'd think that Angel should be the starter in Milwaukee right now. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[dadofandrew]

I don't know of any managers calling pitches anymore...that seems to have fallen by the wayside. Often, pitchouts, and sometimes throws to 1B are called, but pitches?

 

I have not seen that for ages. You'd think it'd get media attention if someone was still doing it.

[coach32sm]

136 ANGEL SALOME GEORGE WASHINGTON HS C R/R 5'7" 190 1986-06-08 HS COMMENT: STRONG LIKE BULL. CHISELED BODY. VERY BROAD SHOULDERS & CHEST, ESPECIALLY FOR SHORT HEIGHT. BUILT LIKE FORMER MAJOR LEAGUER JIMMY WYNN. WEIGHT BACK, KNOCK-KNEED HIT STANCE. MORE STRONG THAN GOOD HIT NOW. PWR IF HE RUNS INTO ONE. LEVEL CUT WHEN KEEPS BACK SHOULDER LEVEL. BLESSED CANNON ARM, AVG ACCURATE. BETTER RAW SPEED THAN MOST CATCHERS, AGGRESSIVE BASE RUNNER. DON'T SEE ARMS LIKE THIS VERY OFTEN. BEST POSITION PLAYER ARM SEEN 15 YRS SCOUTING. This was Angels MLB Scouting report on draft day. Remember I work with most of the big National showcases and Angel was at many of them. He was always the best running catcher and many times one of the fastest runners of all position players as well. You guys are missing the boat with him. But most people just jump on the band wagon anyway. One person writes something and nobody researches it, everybody just tags along. When Manny was drafted it was said he was from the Bronx, it took me forever to correct it, he hated that. But, every report had it cause one guy wrote it. Some people say Salome is from the Bronx and George Washington HS is in the Bronx, both incorrect. Don't write about Angel anymore, wait until he is traded to the AL and is DH'ing and then regret that you lost him. Also, when was that Don Money interview? I'm guessing it was at the start of the season, would be curious to hear what he would say now, maybe the same, maybe worse, who knows? And yes he could be the catcher for the Brewers right now, it would be an improvement. Go to a game and stop sitting around feeding off each other's rediculous and incorrect remarks. See you in September. "Coach"

[coach32sm]

PS Take a look at Baseball America with LaPorta on the cover July 23- Aug 10 Page 21 "Biggest Leap Forward" "COACH"

[battlekow]

The Don Money interview was from the end of July.

 

I haven't seen Salome play, but I will add that it's very common for players to get slower as they bulk up after turning pro. Granted, Angel was already a specimen (someone want to post the famous pic?), and he's only listed at five pounds heavier than the 190 he was drafted at (Brewerfan still has him at 190 but MiLB.com has him at 195), but he's also had a serious ankle injury--ask J.J. Hardy about how that affects your foot speed. All I'm saying is that it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility for Angel to have gotten significantly slower in the last four years.

[JoeHova]

coach- many of us like Angel a lot. There are a few posters who really don't like him as a prospect, but that can be expected with any prospect. I wouldn't take the criticism of a few people as representative of the feelings of the board as a whole.

[homer]

Yeah, coach has a point. Something gets printed once and everyone takes it as gospel because hardly any of us are fortunate enough to see these guys in person. Even a lot of the sites out there don't scout guys in person. Most articles start off with "one scout said..." which is most likely directly lifted from BA's profile on the guy. It very likely could be from one game that the anonymous scout saw and the player in question could have been fighting an ankle injury or something.

[dadofandrew]

Catching slows you down as well. Hardly any C's are even of average speed, so it's not a concern at all until he is moved, if he is.

[JohnBriggs12]

Calling pitches isn't the catcher's job. He puts down signs The pitcher should know what he wants and shake the catcher off if he's not in agreement. AA guys are more likely not to shake off, but once he gets to the majors guys like Suppan that have been around aren't going to hesitate shaking off signs.

 

As the old saying goes "the bat plays" and his bat is exceptional.

[homer]

Catching does slow you down but not until mid - late 20's usually. If a catcher has speed it's a bonus and it's usually a bonus that leaves after a while.

[Menace II Sobriety]

I just wanted to follow up on what coach said as far as one reporter stating something and than everybody else running with it. I was out in North Carolina a few years ago hanging out with a buddy who works for rivals.com covering the heels. He was buddies with a bunch of the Baseball America guys as they are headquartered there.

 

I asked these guys about all of the prospects in the Brewers system at the time and they could rattle off all of the scouting reports and seemed knowledgable about the players. So I asked how many of these guys they have ever seen play, the answer at best was a handful. Turns out that they don't really get travel budgets, I didn't ask about gas reimbursement. So even though they are a reporter for a premier website, they are getting second hand information like the rest of us a lot of times.

 

I am not saying this is the case for all of the writers at Baseball America, but seeing as how they are the predominant source for the draft and the minor leagues I thought all of the writers would be all over the nation catching as many games as possible.

[dadofandrew]

Catching does slow you down but not until mid - late 20's usually.

 

 

 

 

I caught a few games in slo-pitch when I was young, and I still blame that for my lack of speed...it couldn't be the extra weight I carry.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[And That]

Well... I caught in Little League and was one of the fastest people in my 7th grade class until I hurt my knee at a track meet. I still blame catching for that. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

It's not just pitch calling with Angel... he's had trouble blocking balls and doing the fundamental stuff. I sure hope he gets better... a healthy offseason with Charlie Greene could do him a world of good.

 

As far as 5'6, 200 pound outfielders with... we'll say below average speed... I can't think of many. Matt Stairs is pretty short. Maybe Angel will be a trailblazer.

[Never Outhustled]

I posted this in a thread about who will get September call-ups, but I think its merits would best be discussed here;

 

 

I wouldn't be suprised if Salame got the call. He is the Clubs hottest minor league bat right now, and would an outstanding PH option. As a catcher who lacks instinct, he could benefit greatly from sitting next to Ted Simmons for 30 days. He's in his 5th pro season, so he'll have to be added to the 40 in he offseason. I think the absolute most important thing the team needs to do with him is develop his defense in any way possible, and adding 30 days to his service time is a fair tradeoff if this helps make him a tollerable MLB defender.