Haudricourt condescension toward blog participants ("Adam's" message to Brewerfan in reply #159)

[ESPNOwen]

I refuse to give Tom credit for usually having Brewer information before its publicly available and posting that information on a blog. A 19 year old intern could do that. Anyone can do that.

I just saw this post...do you really believe this?

[sgtcluels]

Well 19 year olds are good at the interweb tubes... they are a series of tubes after all!

[sargennm]

I refuse to give Tom credit for usually having Brewer information before its publicly available and posting that information on a blog. A 19 year old intern could do that. Anyone can do that. Whoopee. And the only reason newspapers are adding blogs in the first place is because most of information they write about is usually 12 hours old before it even gets into people's hands.

Wow, just saw this too. You bring a lot of interesting insight about statistical analysis and well-reasoned opinions to this site, but you are completely and totally ignorant on how this works. If what you said were true, the Journal Sentinel would happily can TH and pay some eager 23-year-old $25,000 a year to do the job. The lineups, sure anyone could do that. But he is out front on stories like the CC trade and other things. He can be extraordinarily condescending but he is very good at the reporting aspect of his job.

[Bring Back the Stein]

I will say the amount of information that sports writers are spoon fed by the teams themselves would stun the average Joe. You could write a game story, for instance, without going to the game.

 

Also, is it true that this guy was out front on the CC trade, because I seem to remember one from among the ESPN stable actually got it?

[wisportswriter]

No, TH was first on the CC trade.

 

And yes, anyone could write a gamer without being there. But you couldn't write a good gamer w/o being there or just by being 'spoon fed' information by the teams.

Big difference.

[rluzinski]

If one of Tom's sources gave him the scoop on CC, fine. I'll give him that. Most of the inside info is just spoon fed to him, though. Game linups? Yes!

 

As articles, 95% of Tom's fit one of the dozen baseball article templates sportswriters apprently get when they become a beatwriter. Pick the right template , throw in some quotes and viola, a professional article! This week it was , "Veterans keep team focused". How many times do you think that article has been written over the years?

 

If you are a baseball sportswiter and take offense with this, it means you are probably cliched and formulaic as well. If you aren't, maybe your one of the good sportswriters out there. Keep it up. We need more of them.

[wisportswriter]

Disappointing. I don't really know what else to say. Maybe because there's no 'template' for a post like this.

[Ralph Wiggum]

If one of Tom's sources gave him the scoop on CC, fine. I'll give him that. Most of the inside info is just spoon fed to him, though. Game linups? Yes!

 

As articles, 95% of Tom's fit one of the dozen baseball article templates sportswriters apprently get when they become a beatwriter. Pick the right template , throw in some quotes and viola, a professional article! This week it was , "Veterans keep team focused". How many times do you think that article has been written over the years?

 

If you are a baseball sportswiter and take offense with this, it means you are probably cliched and formulaic as well. If you aren't, maybe your one of the good sportswriters out there. Keep it up. We need more of them.

Wow, speaking as a fellow journalist...

 

HOLY ELITIST, BATMAN!

 

Evidently you believe that being a sportswriter is the easiest job out there. I'd love to know what you do for a living. I bet I could knock it down a peg, too.

[rluzinski]

Hey, I'm not attempting to speak for anyone else. There are obviously many people who enjoy reading that kind of stuff. It's just my personal opinion.

 

When I read a Packer article, I learn things. Roster changes, player performance analysis, in depth analysis of in-game strategies employed. Generally some good stuff. When I read a Brewer article, I learn that the team has really been hot but needs to keep up that killer instinct or else they might lose focus. I don't think the kind of coverage could be more different. Night and day difference.

 

One football article from a few years back really made me realize the difference between the coverage of the two teams. It was an article about KGB's pass rushing abilities. They could have just listed his yearly sack totals and provided their opinion, sprinkling in some anecdotal evidence that supported their opinion. Instead, they listed the type of move (inside, outside, bullrush) KGB used on every career sac he ever had. up to that point.

 

I want that in baseball articles that attempt to provide objective analysis.

[dadofandrew]

Tom H was not "first" on the CC trade, many national pubs beat him, including several web sites.

[Patrick425]

Russ, I think you hit the nail right on the head. I very rarely read any Brewer articles in the Journal/Sentinel because it's usually filled with so much fluff that doesn't really tell me anything other than what I already know.

[wisportswriter]

Tom H was not "first" on the CC trade, many national pubs beat him, including several web sites.

I remember seeing it on the MJS Web site before anywhere else. Who else had it prior?

[rluzinski]

There seems to be some misunderstanding regarding my position:

 

1. I didn't say sportswriting was easy (my 19 year old comment was referring to the so called inside information Tom provides on his blog). Read my blog for 5 minutes or my posts here and it's clear that I am no word-smith.

 

2. I didn't say all sportwriters are bad. I read a lot or articles from all different sports and enjoy most of them.

 

I think Tom's particular brand of sports writing is very popular in baseball and I think it sucks. That's my personal opinion and I may be in the minority but I know I'm not the only one who doesn't like it.

[Principessa21]

If one of Tom's sources gave him the scoop on CC, fine. I'll give him that. Most of the inside info is just spoon fed to him, though. Game linups? Yes!

 

As articles, 95% of Tom's fit one of the dozen baseball article templates sportswriters apprently get when they become a beatwriter. Pick the right template , throw in some quotes and viola, a professional article! This week it was , "Veterans keep team focused". How many times do you think that article has been written over the years?

 

If you are a baseball sportswiter and take offense with this, it means you are probably cliched and formulaic as well. If you aren't, maybe your one of the good sportswriters out there. Keep it up. We need more of them.

I agree with you, and I don't think it's arrogant to expect well-written, insightful baseball articles. It's not everyone (I already mentioned Tyler Kepner in this thread) but it's the majority. It's a shame that blogs and message boards are better places for baseball discussion than newspapers today.

[trwi7]

Tom H was not "first" on the CC trade, many national pubs beat him, including several web sites.

Tom H. was the one who came up with the names. He was for sure the one who had Bryson and Jackson in the trade before ESPN, Yahoo, Fox etc. had them. They were all still frantically looking to see if the Brewers were still adding Escobar. BTW, Tom put a blog post up very early in the talks saying there was no way the Brewers would part with LaPorta and Escobar.

 

You can not like Tom for a lot of things but his reporting on the CC trade was fantastic and better than every other media outlet I've seen.

[Oldcity]

I'm just wondering if we all had the "OMG FIRE THAT REPORTER!!!1111!!1!" reaction when the Packers reporters mentioned the "Save Brett" report that he was going to Tampa.

 

After all, they led credibility to an otherwise questionable report, right?

Getting in a bit late here, but I did bring this up on lambeauleap when that happened. I couldn't believe JS would do that again after the badgerblogger mess.

[dadofandrew]

According to Ramblings, the MLB.com guy reported the deal was done at 3:15 ish. It was all over the internet within 15-30 minutes. Tom H posted his blog entry about 4.

 

Let me check on the players part, my memory is good but short.

 

UPDATE: The State Journal was first with the players.

[lcbj68c]

Looking at that Al's Ramblings page makes my eyes hurt. I turned it away immediately upon seeing large font, bright neon green colors and other goofy formatting. Can we get that copied here once my eyes adjust http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[dadofandrew]

I feel the look makes it unique, like Drudge, only like a million times less popular.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[lcbj68c]

I'm sure it works good for you. I think I speak for 90% of impatient people that if I can't find the information quickly, I'll change the page. Couple that with the bright green coloring and I had to get out of there.

[trwi7]

According to Ramblings, the MLB.com guy reported the deal was done at 3:15 ish. It was all over the internet within 15-30 minutes. Tom H posted his blog entry about 4.

 

Let me check on the players part, my memory is good but short.

 

UPDATE: The State Journal was first with the players.

 

The only thing that link is showing me is the Indians beat writer being vague saying it's LaPorta and two other prospects. Tom posted the same thing an hour and a half later but came on with a blog post at 9:19 PM on July 6th saying Jackson and Bryson were in the deal.

 

Link

 

I need to see the time and date of the State Journal link.

 

Okay I just looked and the WSJ got the Jackson, Bryson part of the trade up about 20 minutes before Haudricourt did.

 

Not sure why the Indians.com beat writer is linked because he was pretty vague through the whole thing and even used WSSP as a source for Jackson and Bryson being in the trade and we know that WSSP got that from the Journal Sentinel.

[rluzinski]

Why does it even matter who was the first to scoop something that was guaranteed to be public knowledge in a short time, anyway? Now exactly a government conspiracy kind of scoop.

[DougJones43]

I think Tom's particular brand of sports writing is very popular in baseball and I think it sucks. That's my personal opinion and I may be in the minority but I know I'm not the only one who doesn't like it.

That's pretty much how I feel. His condescension, stubbornness, defiance, and unwillingness to objectively examine the possibility of viewing baseball in ways other than what he "knows" are just icing on the cake to what is generally poor, bland, and cliche-riddled sports writing.

 

I also agree that the JS Packer coverage is much more insightful, and what I prefer in sporting articles.

[wisportswriter]

FWIW, I too think the JS' Packer coverage is second to none and love McGinn's style.

 

But the NFL and MLB are different beasts. McGinn has a whole week in between games to write that in-depth analysis on KGB that you mentioned, Russ.

By the time TH is done writing his gamer, first pitch is about 18 hours away.

[DougJones43]

By the time TH is done writing his gamer, first pitch is about 18 hours away.

I don't expect too much out of game recaps. They are what they are. However, I don't think Tom's other articles (including the stuff he does during the off-season when he has plenty of time to prepare) ever offer too much either.

 

As has been said, he grabs a few quotes, tosses out a few anecdotal observations -- and voila -- an article about how "Veterans help team handle pressure of playoff push." It just seems like there are many more real and interesting things that could be written about, regarding the aspects of what's actually happening on the field. Maybe get in depth about trying to discover a reason why Ben Sheets hasn't been as sharp since the all-star break - and I mean a real reason. Russ had noticed that Sheets had been ramping his fastball up to about 96 mph when earlier on he was usually at about 93-94 mph. Is there anything to that? How about looking back at his pitch selection before and after the break. Was he throwing more curveballs then? Has the increased velocity messed with his control? Is he leaving more pitches up in the zone? This is just one example off the top of my head, but it illustrates the kind of stuff I'd like to know. Go below the surface, beyond talk-radio friendly garbage like "veteran leadership" or "winning attitude."

 

I know baseball is different than football, but baseball is certainly a complicated and interesting enough sport that there should be a lot more to write about than the drivel Haudricourt and Witrado put out there for the state's most prominent sports section. The availability of MLB stats and information is virtually boundless, especially to somebody who has the access Tom Haudricourt does. I see more interesting subject matter posted constantly here, on brewerfan.net, from people who have nothing more than Google to aid their research. There is no excuse for that.