Haudricourt condescension toward blog participants ("Adam's" message to Brewerfan in reply #159)

[Brian the Automator]

While I'm at it, has anyone thought about the idea that what Garry Howard told Adam is totally different from what he told Tom? I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but simply throwing a thought out there. We all act as if what Tom did is a fireable offense, but he's not going to get fired if he was told/encouraged to do it.

I doubt anyone encouraged TH to put Adam's name and email out there. In the email chain, TH alluded to the idea that he did it because he was mad, and then went back and edited it out. Garry should have probably helped Tom word-craft his statement to the public in which he was relaying that he wouldn't comment in the comments section anymore.

 

[Team Canada]

You can't fight irrefutable logic like this:

 

"That person sent an e-mail to my bosses, trying to cause harm for me in my job. Then, when I turn the tables on him and let people know that he tried to cause me harm in my job, I'm the bad guy? Wow. I guess you live on a one-way street."

I take it this was in a personal email exchange with the two of you?

 

That's correct, and I was equally dumbfounded. He was much more apologetic in a following email after I told him he was ridiculous, but I still don't think he would be remorseful if he hadn't been called out.

[Bruce Ciskie]

I doubt anyone encouraged TH to put Adam's name and email out there. In the email chain, TH alluded to the idea that he did it because he was mad, and then went back and edited it out. Garry should have probably helped Tom word-craft his statement to the public in which he was relaying that he wouldn't comment in the comments section anymore.

I think you're right, and that's why I smell a rat.

 

I find it hard to believe that Howard didn't hold TH's hand at least a little bit. It's part of his job, after all. Haudricourt isn't supposed to know how to get through a PR situation. He's a writer. To me, Howard has to lead through a situation like this, not leave Haudricourt to his own devices, especially when Haudricourt has already shown a penchant for reacting emotionally to the comments on the blog.

 

That's what tells me that this situation either wasn't taken seriously, or it was botched intentionally to keep the hits coming to the blog and the comments section.

 

ADDENDUM: I do think something like this should be taken seriously, because for every Adam who complains, there are countless readers who will just stop reading the blog because they're sick of the attitude they're getting from the writer. Tom deserves credit for doing a lot of good work on the blog and with his overall coverage of the team, but he botched this one in amazing fashion.

[ESPNOwen]

A member of the media gets tired of fans ripping him and fights back. Sly Stallone is TH in The Pen IS a Sword - next on Fox.

 

I certainly don't condone putting Adam's personal info up on JSOnline.com, but I sure understand Tom arguing with fans in the comments section. You have no idea how insulting people can be. Who among us doesn't love being called an idiot while doing one's job? I KNOW I LOVE IT! The best part, those calling names often have facts wrong. And not a little bit wrong, but miles away from right, wrong.

Alas, one does have to take the high road, and TH should not have put Adam's contact info up for public comsumption. But to call for Tom to be fired over this is a tad over the top.

One other thing - I think Tom does a damn good job covering the team. Often times he seems to be the only one asking Mr. Yost tough questions. Plus, he's an entertaining writer. But again, that doesn't excuse what he/they did to Adam.

Owen

P.S. So who's getting tired of all the jumping on and off the Packer bandwagon? It's the new excersize craze!

[Brian the Automator]

I think you're right, and that's why I smell a rat.

 

I find it hard to believe that Howard didn't hold TH's hand at least a little bit. It's part of his job, after all. Haudricourt isn't supposed to know how to get through a PR situation. He's a writer. To me, Howard has to lead through a situation like this, not leave Haudricourt to his own devices, especially when Haudricourt has already shown a penchant for reacting emotionally to the comments on the blog.

It's hard to say. Obviously the way in which the statement was constructed, it echoes the tone and sentiment that seems to be common from Tom. Given that it was a weekend, and Tom was out of town, perhaps Garry and Tom had a brief conversation, and both parties walked away from it thinking they had an understanding. The real hell broke loose after Tom and Garry talked, and the message was posted on the blog. I would assume that they'll have another conversation about how the situation was handled. My assumption is that nothing else will come of it (as far as disciplinary actions or whatever). Hopefully though, someone will relay to Tom that truly taking the high road (meaning, not trying to get the last word in and slam someone) when you are a media figure is the only acceptable action, from the company's point of view.

[ESPNOwen]

though, someone will relay to Tom that truly taking the high road (meaning, not trying to get the last word in and slam someone) when you are a media figure is the only acceptable action, from the company's point of view.

There goes the entertainment factor down the drain. Fare well snarky comments! FARE THEE WELL!

[pretendastronaut]

I find it hard to believe that Howard didn't hold TH's hand at least a little bit. It's part of his job, after all. Haudricourt isn't supposed to know how to get through a PR situation. He's a writer. To me, Howard has to lead through a situation like this, not leave Haudricourt to his own devices, especially when Haudricourt has already shown a penchant for reacting emotionally to the comments on the blog.

 

In a well managed situation, I think you're not off base, however, based on Tom posting, "So, I'm sure they will appeciate this new policy as well" about his bosses, I don't think it was handled much at all. It appears highly likely that Tom was forwarded the email with perhaps some sort of message from his superiors about his behavior and Tom reacted in the blog, which created an even bigger firestorm.

As someone who has recently been in close to ties to two different situations where superiors had to be involved, there are vast differences in how well management does their job.

[Brian the Automator]

There goes the entertainment factor down the drain. Fare well snarky comments! FARE THEE WELL!

I think there's a difference between your career and Tom's. Tom's a beat writer, and generally, it's their job to remain objective and "professional". You're in sports radio, and while you're certainly there to inform, the idea there is more about entertainment of the fan-base you're entertaining. What brought you to Brewerfan represents that sort of culture clash (we're "uppity", you're "crass"), so I'm sure you understand what I'm getting it. And I'm not saying that sports radio isn't a profession, just not "professional" in the more reserved/business/customer-is-always-right usage of the term.

 

Honestly, I think it would be OK if Tom just gave somewhat snarky replies, but like I said earlier, he ups the ante with the "sitting in your underwear in your parents house eating doritos"-type comments, and that shouldn't fly with a newspaper company, despite the fact that the line between print media and internet posting has gotten very blurry.

[Team Canada]

As someone who has recently been in close to ties to two different situations where superiors had to be involved, there are vast differences in how well management does their job.

 

In this case, a response from Howard made it clear management was doing their job all weekend, and Tom "gets it" now. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[tosabrewfan]

I don't think that it is unreasonable to hold a professional beat writer to at least the same level of accountability as your average blogger. If Tom Hardricout knew anything about the Internet (channelling Ned Yost), he would know that publishing someone's full name and email address as a response to receiving some criticism (directly or indirectly) is considered the "nuclear option." TH could have explored avenues such as (1) ignoring Adam's criticism and trying to be less incindiary in his comments in the future (2) banning Adam from the blog (JS requires registration) or (3) corresponding directly with Adam to address his concerns, instead of publishing Adam's contact information.

 

TH severly screwed up. As much as I appreciate the information shared by the blog, TH clearly has no idea how to maintain a blog for a major professional newspaper (remember when Yost got fired). TH is the first to criticize Yost when he gets snippy, but obviously cannot recognize the same type of behavior when he exhibits it. Based on this and prior incidents, the JS clearly needs to hire someone to provide additional training to its writers with resepct to blogs. Until someone has that training, the "blog" should really just be an "opinion-free" zone.

[Brian the Automator]

TH could have explored avenues such as (1) ignoring Adam's criticism and trying to be less incindiary in his comments in the future (2) banning Adam from the blog (JS requires registration) or (3) corresponding directly with Adam to address his concerns, instead of publishing Adam's contact information.

In this case, there was no reason to ban Adam from the blog. He wasn't criticizing TH publicly, only in an email to the president of the J/S. He also did correspond directly with Adam, but only after posting the incendiary blog comment.

[RU Rah Rah]

That's correct, and I was equally dumbfounded. He was much more apologetic in a following email after I told him he was ridiculous, but I still don't think he would be remorseful if he hadn't been called out.

I'm just totally amazed that TH is not being more contrite, simply for the sake of making this mess go away. What's next? Another "apology" on the blog in which he rips folks for coming to Adam's defense?

 

 

(edit: thrice-nested quote --1992)

[tosabrewfan]

In this case, there was no reason to ban Adam from the blog. He wasn't criticizing TH publicly, only in an email to the president of the J/S. He also did correspond directly with Adam, but only after posting the incendiary blog comment.

BTA - I agree that banning Adam would not have made a lot of sense, but it certainly would have been more reasonable than the "retaliation" that TH actually engaged in.

[pretendastronaut]

In this case, a response from Howard made it clear management was doing their job all weekend, and Tom "gets it" now.

 

You're burning up the email waves. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif Good to know, thanks.

[Bring Back the Stein]

Among the sins committed by the Journal Sentinel, the sour mewlings of a hackneyed beat writer phoning it in and bewildered by a new technological dynamic are among the least of them. That said, what's the remedy and what are the damages? The clown Howard is in a death's grip with the reporter, so he ain't going anywhere. And the offended dude is literally talking about a civil action (!).

 

Maybe some scream therapy for TH is in the works, but I'm more peeved at his unoriginal paint-by-numbers reporting. I don't bother e-mailing the paper because it marches only to the beats of the Sykeses and Wagners of the world. That and I don't want TH to come punch my dog.

[RU Rah Rah]

But to call for Tom to be fired over this is a tad over the top.

I am not saying TH should be fired, but over the weekend he clearly (and repeatedly) did what his boss very specifically told him not to do, in terms of getting too venomous when interacting with readers. In all kinds of occupations, folks get fired or suspended or reprimanded for that kind of behavior.

 

[splitterpfj]

I'm amazed by this whole thing.

 

I like Tom's blog, for instance, he was the one source who was consistently correct when reporting on Brewers' trade rumors in the weeks leading up to the deadline. ESPN.com, and Foxsports.com reported all sorts of wild ideas that never came true, but Tom went to the source, got it right, and reported it. In this respect, I think he does a fine job.

 

I don't understand why Tom would allow himself to be drawn into this sort of controversy. You can disagree with people, and you can defend your facts and opinions, but a journalist has no business insulting his audience. Go ahead and ban a guy from the site if that is warranted, no one has said Tom should just tolerate people who are disrespectful or rude - but be a man about it - you can't expect everyone who reads your work to always agree with you and respond positively, sometimes people are going to tell you they think you're wrong. When they do, if you respond with "living in your parents' basement", or "I've been in this business 30 years, what do you know?", you sound like a child, and you entice the losers in your audience to pile it on even higher - waiting for your next immature response.

 

1. I think Tom is a fine journalist.

 

2. I think Tom's blog has been a great addition to JSOnline, and is a fantastic resource for Brewers fans.

 

3. Points 1 and 2 do not mean Tom is somehow better than everyone else. Check the ego, Mr H, you're damaging your own professional reputation - this is not someone else's fault.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

TH should take a page from Jeff Potrykus, the Badger football beat writer. They both cover the teams well and have done a nice job with the blogs. They both get a little snarky at times with the readers both in the blog and in their weekly chats. My guess is they get plenty of critical and profane e-mails and posts that lead to some of these responses. However, Potrykus never responded in the way TH did to Adam...a way that flat out crossed the line. Potrykus even responds and posts in various Badger blogs like BadgerNation. He realizes that the newspaper business isn't the monopoly that it used to be and rather than fight it, embrace it. He can make these posts and drive traffic to the Journal website.

 

C'mon TH, writers have been getting critical letters delivered to their bosses since the Guttenburg Press, it's part of the business. E-mail is no different. Garry Howard firing you over a random e-mail from a reader would be like Ned Yost getting canned by the Brewers due to some random blog post (like the one TH cited last year).

 

If TH was smart he would be on this site engaging with readers in an intelligent discussion about the Brewers, not fighting it, or the Journal should try and manage their blog into a more readable form like this site. The information flows much more freely these days which demands a more forward thinking approach to journalism. TH and his snarky young counterpart need to pick up on this.

[kramnoj]

TH clearly has no idea how to maintain a blog for a major professional newspaper (remember when Yost got fired).

 

TH didn't write that Yost was being fired. http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2008/05.aspx?PageIndex=3 is the blog archive, the relevant blog is May 19th. TH was called and told that there was a report that Yost was going to be fired. Tom figured if someone he knew had read this, other people would hear about it, and he should respond. So he wrote that there is a blog that has reported this, but that he couldn't verify it and didn't think it was likely.

 

Tom didn't foresee that his own blog would bring more attention to this issue than if he hadn't reported it at all. I think this again shows how TH can't make all of his readers happy. He was called early in the morning and wrote a blog that was posted here at 4:57 AM because he had to catch a flight and he wanted to be timely, since that is one of the goals of a blog. Someone here complained because a roster move wasn't reported for 4 hours recently. Just about everybody has different expectations of what they want from TH, and this results in lots of people not being happy with his work (and that is regardless of his unforgiveable posting of someone's email address).

[tosabrewfan]

[i did not include the actual quote to save space, but my intention was to quote everything you posted]

And that is why TH clearly has no idea how to maintain a blog for a major professional newspaper. The credibility that is lent to a blog run by the JS requires that TH not post personal attacks, or inaccurate breaking news, on the blog. The argument is that TH should know that it is wrong to post personal attacks with contact information, just as he should have known that his readership was slightly larger than Badger Blogger (the Ned Yost blog). The fact that TH doesn't know these things is a failure for him, and for his managers for failing to get him the proper training. Everytime TH makes these errors, which are fairly major, he damages both his credibility and the credibility of the Journal Sentinel.

[kramnoj]

Everytime TH makes these errors, which are fairly major, he damages both his credibility and the credibility of the Journal Sentinel.

 

You think the JS loses credibility by addressing a rumor and saying that it's likely to be wrong? TH was called early in the morning because he was told there is a blog claiming that Yost was going to be fired. TH figured if it was important enough that he had to be called before the sun got up, he better address it. If you remember middle May, there was talk that Yost was on the hot seat. They were in last place, they got swept in Boston, things weren't looking good. There were people here speculating that this would be a good day to fire Yost, because it was an off day. Yost being fired was a topic on talk shows and on messageboards, it wasn't something that was completely out of the blue. Even though he didn't think it was likely, he felt that his blog was a place for him to address what he thought was going to be a bigger story.

 

You may feel that way, but there aren't established guidelines on what is professional in all of these areas. They are making up the rules as they go along. They will get somethings wrong, but I don't feel it's clear cut that it was an unprofessional decision.

[BrewCrewForever]

I had no problem with TH reporting the blog that claimed Yost was getting fired. I think MOST of us really felt on that day off after the Red Sox series before Pittsburgh that he would indeed be fired. They were about as low and low can be.

[rluzinski]

I refuse to give Tom credit for usually having Brewer information before its publicly available and posting that information on a blog. A 19 year old intern could do that. Anyone can do that. Whoopee. And the only reason newspapers are adding blogs in the first place is because most of information they write about is usually 12 hours old before it even gets into people's hands.

[Bruce Ciskie]

I had no problem with TH reporting the blog that claimed Yost was getting fired. I think MOST of us really felt on that day off after the Red Sox series before Pittsburgh that he would indeed Ibe fired. They were about as low and low can be.

 

I'm just wondering if we all had the "OMG FIRE THAT REPORTER!!!1111!!1!" reaction when the Packers reporters mentioned the "Save Brett" report that he was going to Tampa.

 

After all, they led credibility to an otherwise questionable report, right?

[JohnA17]

Wow. What a bizzare story. Not sure what would make TH react like this, but I have noticed Bedard getting snippy in his chats with posters so maybe there is a bit of a dislike for Wisconsin sport fans among these guys and they go to the bar together after work telling each other how all the wis fans are morons. I am sure guys who reach where they are in their jobs have a certain bit of arrogance and when pounded by fans constantly about every opinion they write it wears them down, especially when they do write dumb stuff and get called on it by the very homers they are privately putting down.

 

Who knows, maybe Tom likes to have a few beers now and then and doesn't know better than to stay off the computer. I know I have been guilty of a few drunken rants in my time. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif