Haudricourt condescension toward blog participants ("Adam's" message to Brewerfan in reply #159)

[Katuluu]

Your name is also not a matter of privacy.

Not quite sure with newspapers, but I know with many magazines and such a letter writer needs to state that their letter is free to reprint, and their name, address, email and what not can all be withheld on their request. It certainly appears as if this guy wasn't given that option.

 

It doesn't sound like the guy was writing a letter to the editor, but a complaint about TH's behavior. To then go and publish this guys information without his consent is a huge journalism faux pas. I would think the guy would be able to threaten a lawsuit, which would be quite a terrible turn of events for the MJS, even if the lawsuit is frivilous.

[homer]

Yeah I wrote a letter to the JS once a long time ago and they called to ask if they could print it and use my name.

[Brian the Automator]

And think about this...if he had not mentioned anything about why he would stop posting or reading the comments, 95% of you would be complaining abut that as well and demanding for more info.

I totally disagree with this. It's not that TH decided to post that he wasn't going to get in any more pissing matches, it was that he took the low road with a final parting shot ( "I'll stay out of the fray so no one such as Mr. [last name deleted] gets his feelings hurt again. We certainly wouldn't want that." ), and published the name of the person. Really, how much effort does it take to say:

"Considering how heated discussions between me and some of the commenters have been, I've decided to no longer interact with posters in the comments section".

Posting in a blog is something you can take time to think about before you hit the submit button. Again, I'm appreciative of TH having his blog, as it fills in a lot of gaps in coverage that there used to be, but people in the media need to rise above flame wars.

 

 

 

 

 

[Brian the Automator]

I got this message from Adam who wanted to share his side of the story:

 

Brian,

 

First off, I'd like to introduce myself as Adam [last name deleted], the man who Mr. Haudricourt has attempted to seek revenge on. I've been an on again, off again visitor to your site and commend you and the other moderators on getting a good discussion going. With that said, I would greatly appreciate it if you would edit any posts that contain my last name and e-mail address. While I have only received two harassing emails because of Mr. Haudricourt's blog, I do not want to take any more chances. I do not have any problem with people using my first name.

 

With that out of the way, I would like to thank everyone for their support. As of now, I am undecided as to whether I should comment in the topic on Mr. Haudricourt. Regardless, I feel obligated to tell my side of the story. As a Brewer fan, I visit numerous sites to find up-to-date information on the team and engage in discussions. Obviously, I visited the Brewers blog by Mr. Haudricourt. For months, I have read through the comments and Mr. Haudricourt's blogs and put up with his childish comments. It should be known that Mr. Haudricourt had never responded to any of my comments, so I did not do this in retaliation. After talking with friends who felt the same way, I decided to write an e-mail to Ms. Elizabeth Brenner, the President of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. In the e-mail I provided links and quotes to a few of Mr. Haudricourt's childish comments. I also stated that I am a subscriber to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and that I only wished for Mr. Haudricourt to act professionally when making comments. I in no way asked for Mr. Haudricourt to be fired, to be disciplined, or to stop commenting.

 

Within twenty hours, I received a response from Mr. Garry Howard, an assistant sports editor. Here is Mr. Howard's response:

 

"On behalf of the Journal Sentinel sports department, I want to apologize for my writer's use of language and tone in response to readers' comments on the Milwaukee Brewers' blog.

Unfortunately, we have asked Tom to work both sides of the fence, so to speak, covering the Milwaukee Brewers as a beat writer (one of the best in the country) and interacting with the public on our blog. There is a tendency to be a bit more comfortable when "chatting" - I know; I have done it myself - as you try to really "talk" to the readers who post questions and responses.

There are some instances, like the examples you cited, that I believe Tom crossed over the line.

I've hired Mr. Haudricourt twice, and I know he knows his baseball and is excellent what he does, but there is a line and he stepped over it more than a few times …

We will make sure he understands that there is a line between wit and disrespect.

Thank you so much for taking the time to bring up this matter. Rest assured, I will follow up, Adam!"

After receiving this e-mail, I thought the issue was settled. I did not write a response, nor did I post any of this information anywhere. However, as you know, Mr. Haudricourt was not finished. Saturday afternoon rolled around and all hell started to break lose. I received an e-mail from a friend alerting me to what Mr. Haudricourt wrote in his blog. Again, my e-mail was a letter of complaint, not a letter to the editor. I am unaware of any professional business that publishes a "complainers" name and e-mail address. I did not actually see the blog before it was edited, so I am unaware of exactly what he wrote.

 

Shortly afterwards, I received two harassing e-mails. About an hour later, I received an e-mail directly from Mr. Haudricourt. Mr. Haudricourt's e-mail was similar to his blog. He admitted to putting my name, but not my e-mail address, in the blog and that he wished to stay above the fray, to take the high road in the matter. Honestly, Mr. Haudricourt's actions and arrogance made me mad. As a result, I fired off another e-mail to Mr. Howard and Ms. Brenner. I have yet to here back from either. A short while later, I sent Mr. Haudricourt another e-mail. In this e-mail, I did tell him that I was going to look into civil action against him. I also told Mr. Haudricourt that he acted unprofessionally. Unfortunately, with the little bit of law school education I have, I do not know if a civil suit is actionable.

 

Regardless, Mr. Haudricourt sent me a response today. In short, Mr. Haudricourt essentially admitted that he put my name and e-mail address in the blog so that others would attack me (although not in those words). In addition, Mr. Haudricourt has continued his arrogance and defiance, trying to make me look like I have a personal vendetta against him.

 

I will be happy to provide any and all e-mails in full, mine and those from Mr. Howard and Mr. Haudricourt, should anyone desire to read them. They are definitely quite interesting. Feel free to post any or all of this message, but again, I ask that you edit/omit my last name and e-mail address. I urge anyone who wants to complain about this incident to do so. Please e-mail Ms. Brenner at bbrenner@journalsentinel.com. All I ask is that everyone be nice and courteous. Sorry for the long read, but thanks for your time.

 

Adam

I'd like to reiterate his message that if you'd like to give your opinion to anyone at the J/S, you do so with class.

 

Thanks.

[RU Rah Rah]

I am even more incredulous over TH's (mis)conduct now. Holy smokes.

 

Let me see if I get this straight: Your editor chastises you for "crossing the line" in your interactions with readers, and you turn around and call the guy out by name and email in a snarky blog posting? And then you follow up with the reader with (apparently) equally intemperate emails? Oh, and everything is in writing, so there's no question about being misunderstood?

 

I, for one, would love to see the complete correspondence, but I don't know if you're comfortable posting it here.

[homer]

This is the sort of thing that should be on firejoemorgan.com

[kramnoj]

It is clear to me that the JS sports department doesn't know how to live in the e-world. Look at the response from Howard. He makes it clear that TH has two jobs, and that he shouldn't approach them in the same way. TH isn't like the rest of us, he doesn't have a learned understanding of what is appropriate communication and boundaries in this internet world. He busts readers chops just like he would if one of his colleagues said something stupid in the press room or having a pop after the game.

 

I heard Bill Johnson on the D-List the other day say that he had the idea for PTI before PTI was ever on the air by watching TH and Drew Olson go at it when talking baseball. TH has to stop interacting with his readers because he really doesn't know where the boundary is, and it's not worth his time trying to figure it out.

 

Another weird thing here is that Adam's email was given to TH. If this was a complaint, the only reason for TH to be given the email address is if he was specifically told to write an apology. Otherwise, that was just a stupid move by the President or Howard.

[1992casey]

I'm betting that the initial complaint was forwarded to Haudricourt.

 

Remind me never to e-mail the Journal Sentinel with anything other than a disposable e-mail address with no notation of my name in the "From" field.

[saget]

Color me lost on this whole subject.

 

Instead of reading 9 pages I think I'll just assume that TH = naughty.

[1992casey]

The biggie is posted in reply #93.

[Mike Felder]

This is the sort of thing that should be on firejoemorgan.com

www.firetomhaudricourt.com? How about it?

(Tongue-in-cheek. Mostly. Sorta.)

Actually, this might be something that a place like Deadspin would jump on, seeing as how they like to rip the mainstream media. I'm sure a few of their commenters would let him have it.

 

[Brian the Automator]

I was forwarded the email chain by Adam and have read through it. I don't feel comfortable sharing it, because I'm a third party and this was a private conversation between two people. Adam was obviously upset with his name and email address being bandied about as "payback" for his email to TH's boss, and TH's apology was riddled with the same sort of condescension that led to the original complaint.

 

Obviously, from MY tone, it sounds as though I'm taking Adam's "side" on this, but I'm really trying to remain objective about it. While I would have probably emailed TH directly instead of his boss (at least until it was clear that I wasn't satisfied, as a consumer), posting someone's name and email as revenge crosses a pretty big line.

 

I don't believe I'm going to comment on this any further, because this is sort of a tough situation for me. On one hand, because from my experience, I feel Tom's pain as far as taking things personally when people say some pretty nasty stuff about me... But on the other hand, I'm not a journalist, I'm a Brewers fan and a consumer of Brewers information, so I do expect the paid professionals to be pofessional in their public communication.

[wisportswriter]

For the record, I am not condoning Tom's action of printing a reader's e-mail and/or name. The things I was speaking of in my posts were more the heated exchanges in the blogs and chats. Printing a reader's info is definitely crossing a line.

I apologize if I wasn't clear about that before.

[Team Canada]

You can't fight irrefutable logic like this:

 

"That person sent an e-mail to my bosses, trying to cause harm for me in my job. Then, when I turn the tables on him and let people know that he tried to cause me harm in my job, I'm the bad guy? Wow. I guess you live on a one-way street."

[ELCABALLO45]

I dunno really what to think about this, TH probably should of handled it better, but at the same time I can actually see where he is coming from.

[Braminano]

I'm 100% behind Adam in this and believe that he was right to go over Haudricourt in addressing his complaint. TH's tendency to blow off comments and be unadulteratedly snarky meant that Adam's thoughts would have no impact if he contacted him directly. He did the right thing and I hope that TH is rightfully punished for his insanely inappropriate actions. TH's stunning lack of common sense blows me away.

[orca1963]

I was forwarded the email chain by Adam and have read through it. I don't feel comfortable sharing it, because I'm a third party and this was a private conversation between two people. Adam was obviously upset with his name and email address being bandied about as "payback" for his email to TH's boss, and TH's apology was riddled with the same sort of condescension that led to the original complaint.

 

Obviously, from MY tone, it sounds as though I'm taking Adam's "side" on this, but I'm really trying to remain objective about it. While I would have probably emailed TH directly instead of his boss (at least until it was clear that I wasn't satisfied, as a consumer), posting someone's name and email as revenge crosses a pretty big line.

 

I don't believe I'm going to comment on this any further, because this is sort of a tough situation for me. On one hand, because from my experience, I feel Tom's pain as far as taking things personally when people say some pretty nasty stuff about me... But on the other hand, I'm not a journalist, I'm a Brewers fan and a consumer of Brewers information, so I do expect the paid professionals to be pofessional in their public communication.

Here is something to think about regarding publishing the communicaton between TH and Adam. I work in an Emergency room that recently had a run in with a rogue police officer. He ran to a newspaper with a bunch of half truths that made us look very bad. The reality of the situation vs. what the paper alluded to were quite different. Newspapers have an incredible amount of power that sometimes is abused for the sake of selling some papers. I believe this to be the exception rather than the rule. That being said, the incredible power and responsibility of "freedom of the press" is one that should not be taken lightly or abused. If you feel--and I have found you to be an intelligent man and will respect your descision--that TH was abusing his position at a personal level, he should be called out. Not to get on a soap box but freedom of the press does not equal freedom to print any dang thing you want. BFnet has always held itself to a high standard, don't you think that the JS and it's employees should be held to an even higher standard?

 

Having said that, I will continue to read BF.net but will add the JS to newpapers I will not purchase.

[jeffy]

The biggie is posted in reply #93.

 

Wow, TH is amazingly infantile...what a pathetic whine.

[RU Rah Rah]

I can understand the hesitancy about reproducing the correspondence here. It could turn into an enormous headache.

 

I will say, however, that if the tables were somehow turned, and the JS obtained truthful-but-potentially-embarrassing material about BF.net that could be turned into a juicy story (hypothetically, let's say it's a letter written by Brian to a relative saying that's he's really a closet Cubs fan), the paper would run it -- in a heartbeat.

 

As long as the material is accurate and there was no explicit promise of confidentiality, it's probably fair game.

[pretendastronaut]

You can't fight irrefutable logic like this:

 

"That person sent an e-mail to my bosses, trying to cause harm for me in my job. Then, when I turn the tables on him and let people know that he tried to cause me harm in my job, I'm the bad guy? Wow. I guess you live on a one-way street."

 

I take it this was in a personal email exchange with the two of you? That response is more revealing than anything else, in my opinion. That reeks of taking absolutely no responsibility on his own part and believing he didn't do anything wrong to warrant Adam's complaint, nor anything wrong after. Amazing.

I think its unfortunate as well that Adam is becoming the lone complainer in the blog comments and is being assailed for it, when he's obviously not the only one to have ever sent in a complaint about TH's behavior on the blog. I typically avoided the comment section of that blog, and that thread is a shining example as to why.

[PeaveyFury]

It should be pointed out that the person's full name has re-appeared in the comments section of Tom's post in his blog.

[Brian the Automator]

Regarding the correspondence, in my previous message, I don't want to make it sounds as though I was trying to defend Haudricourt. The reality is that if he were to post on our site in the manner that he did in the comments section of his blog, he'd be banned. The long and short of it is that once Adam's name and email were posted in TH's blog, he obviously became very upset about that. TH initiated the email thread to Adam after he talked to Garry Howard about not posting comments anymore. This came on the heels of his now infamous blog post (later edited) with Adam's full name and email address. In the email thread, let's just say the tone was "heated" on behalf of both parties. Adam said he was considering pursuing legal action, and TH railed on him for claiming that Adam was trying to get TH fired/disciplined/whatever.

 

I think the problem that still exists here, as that Tom doesn't realize that journalists shouldn't "fight fire with fire" when it comes to interacting with the public. Instead of recognizing that, he just went into shutdown mode regarding commenting, as if it would be physically impossible to not up the ante with more personal attacks. TH did seem remorseful of throwing down Adam's name and email, but not remorseful at all about calling him out.

 

As far as the "tables being turned" if it were the JS that had dirt on Brewerfan, I'm not even going to go there. Digging up dirt on other media sources isn't something I want to perpetuate, and I don't feel as though it serves our mission here at the site.

[homer]

I think the long and short of it is that TH doesn't understand that his readers are his clients/customers. No way would any employer in any other business allow an employee to treat customers like that.

[Brian the Automator]

It should be pointed out that the person's full name has re-appeared in the comments section of Tom's post in his blog.

I've emailed the J/S about this using the "report abuse" feature of their comments section. Hopefully they delete those particular comments soon.

 

[Bruce Ciskie]

Still not sure what to think of all this...

 

On one hand, I'd be royally POed if a listener/reader ever went over my head and complained to my boss without talking to me about the issue first. Obviously, if I don't handle it appropriately, complain away. I got it coming at that point.

 

On the other hand, that doesn't give Tom the right to act vindictively. It gives him the option of being upset, but not the right to publish the dude's last name and e-mail address.

 

While I'm at it, has anyone thought about the idea that what Garry Howard told Adam is totally different from what he told Tom? I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but simply throwing a thought out there. We all act as if what Tom did is a fireable offense, but he's not going to get fired if he was told/encouraged to do it.