Haudricourt condescension toward blog participants ("Adam's" message to Brewerfan in reply #159)

[brewers19]

If I ever said or did anything remotely close to what he did while representing my employer, I would no longer have a job.

[lcbj68c]

I can't remember what line of work you are in brewers19, but that seems a little extreme. Most employers have a sliding scale for discipline. I don't even know what to call this, insubordination (if they told him to calm it down and obviously he didnt) Most first offenses for insubordination range from warning to 1 week suspension (as a police officer it was 1 week susp.) That said, we don't know TH's history of discipline, so it's tough to gauge the right amount of discipline he should receive. I dont want to make a ethnic reference, but here's hoping your bosses are ruling with Hitler type authority.

 

Disclaimer: Mods, please just delete this if that was inappopriate, I can't afford another strike, yet couldn't get my point across otherwise. If I offend anybody's German heritage by referencing Adolf Hitler, I apologize in advance.

[sbrylski]

Law guys - What if Adam J. was under the age of 18? He could be, for all we know. Then could TH face some legal problems?

 

(Just throwing things out there. Devil's advocate.)

[kramnoj]

Just use Draconian. It sounds much cooler anyway.

 

I emailed TH late at night and asked how Cameron's time during the suspension would be handled. He included his information in the paper the next morning and emailed me later to make sure that I got the answer in case I didn't see his article. I thought that was incredibly nice of him. Too bad that he chooses to act differently in the public forums.

[crewcrazy]

With stuff like this, I'd say Tom is pretty lucky to have seniority at the J-S. If Witrado was the one pulling this crap, his butt would be kicked to the curb pretty quickly. The J-S has been cutting jobs left and right lately, and if Haudricourt wasn't a vet, the J-S probably wouldn't mind cutting one more.

 

I realize being such a high-profile writer for the only paper in town is likely a tough gig because you're always ticking someone off, and some days you're not going to be in a very good mood. However, everything I've ever heard about him indicates he's a bit of a frosty guy in general that doesn't like to be questioned. That comes from his blog comments, e-mails he's responded to, and just the way he's always presented himself. Even in his "apology" he was acting like a bit of a jerk, saying he "didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings." I can't even imagine the vast amounts of crappy e-mails he has to sift through every day, but the best way to deal with that is to ignore the stuff that is blatantly written to get under your skin and take everything else as constructive criticism...but maybe that's just easy for me to say because I'm a mellow guy.

 

I agree that the best thing would probably be to just shut the comments off altogether. Now that Tom has publicly stated that he's not going to respond to anything that gets posted in the comments, we're going to see all kinds of people trying to provoke him, and it's only going to further dilute what was already a pretty diluted discussion forum.

[brewers19]

I can't remember what line of work you are in brewers19, but that seems a little extreme.

I don't think it is. I'd love to call out the idiot customers/visitors that I deal with on a daily basis, but I'm held to certain expectations as far as self-control and conduct. If I insulted someone, who in turn filed a complaint with my superiors, whereupon I then responded by publicly mocking and deriding that individual, then I would honestly expect to no longer have a job.

[MickeyDavis]

Witrado has acted like a 2 year old many times when he does the mailbag.

[RU Rah Rah]

Even in his "apology" he was acting like a bit of a jerk, saying he "didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings."

Yes, the whole thing was transparently disingenuous. It was your basic non-apology apology. I don't know what possessed him to write anything beyond, "Although I really enjoy interacting with readers, etc., etc., I'm going to focus more of my energy on reporting and improving the content of my blog postings."

[hawing]

If I insulted someone, who in turn filed a complaint with my superiors, whereupon I then responded by publicly mocking and deriding that individual, then I would honestly expect to no longer have a job.

I think a lot of workers who serve "the public" would find themselves unemployed after a series of events like Tom H's, or at least subject to some serious discipline.

I would have to consider it if one of my employees did something like this, and I don't think anyone who knows me would consider me Draconian.

 

This whole thing is unfortunate, from the boorish comments to Haudricourt's reactions. I frankly wouldn't mind seeing the blog change to a ticker.

 

 

 

[sgtcluels]

This is exactly why I stopped reading the JSOnline Brewers Blog. Tom H appears to be a jerk and has contempt for the very people who provide him with a job. With his muff with "Badger Blogger" then his very stated hate for Bloggers yet wants to make a blog happen. Tom, part of a blog is interacting with the community.

 

I'll stick to getting my brewers news from BCB Frosty Mugs and right here.

[1992casey]

Disclaimer: Mods, please just delete this if that was inappopriate

 

It's not a rule issue because you didn't personally attack a member.

 

Your Hitler reference was safe, too, because it was just a metaphor. (It'd be pretty easy to turn a Hitler reference into something problematic, but you didn't do it. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif)

[DougJones43]

How would you handle it if people were hurdling insults your way on a consistent basis?

Maybe the way other journalists handle things like this? I know your "kinship" with Tom has led you toward feelings of empathy, because you believe being a sports journalist is such a difficult job. But come on. There are hoards of journalists in this country, many of whom face more pressure and scrutiny than a Brewers beat writer. I don't see many (if any) of them using their forum to give out names and personal information of people they don't like. This was a blatant and pathetic attempt to blame "Adam" for Tom no longer commenting on the blog. And worse yet, Tom intentionally set out to embarass him and set him up to face the anger and vitriol of readers. As somebody pointed out, this might be a 14-year-old kid who Tom is divulging personal information about. Deplorable.

 

I always thought Tom was a poor researcher and writer. Obviously there was some room for debate on an issue like that. However, I now think he is a bad writer, and a bad person with absolutely zero class. I know it's you so I shouldn't be, but I'm still surprised that you would stoop so low as to try and defend him now.

[EinhornIsFinkle]

In the Pioneer Press a sports writer printed personal emails that were sent to him with names and email addresses included in the actual newspaper a while back. Someone wrote a letter to the editor complaining that he he didn't give them permission to print his letter and an editor for the newspaper explained in a note that they did not need to.

[DougJones43]

In the Pioneer Press a sports writer printed personal emails that were sent to him with names and email addresses included in the actual newspaper a while back. Someone wrote a letter to the editor complaining that he he didn't give them permission to print his letter and an editor for the newspaper explained in a note that they did not need to.

I'm not sure about the legal ramifications of something like that, but it seems pretty evident that it would be widely considered "unethical" behavior for journalists.

[wisportswriter]

I know it's you so I shouldn't be, but I'm still surprised that you would stoop so low as to try and defend him now.

And the opening line of my original post ...

 

wisportswriter wrote:

---

Please note, and I cannot emphasize this enough, that I am not condoning some of the ways Tom has reacted to these situations, including this most recent.

Thanks for reading.

[DougJones43]

And the opening line of my original post ...

Yeah, and then you pretty much spent the next two paragraphs with Tom's (and all sportwriters') sob story, more or less making excuses for why he did what he did. You also ended by asking "how would you handle it?", basically implying that the amount of criticism Haudricourt takes would cause most people to react the way Tom has. I'm saying most normal people - particularly professional journalists - would not react that way, and all you have to do is look at how journalists with any class or integrity handle themselves.

[wisportswriter]

No, I asked "How would you handle it?" because I just wanted people to think about it from the other side. It's easy for us to sit here and say what a jerkbag he is for doing what he did. Would everyone casting stones have taken the proverbial high road themselves? I seriously question that.

 

And I also made sure to emphasize this wasn't a sportswriter 'sob story' as I knew it would be construed as whining. That's why I said you can apply the scenario to any job, not just sportswriting.

[PeaveyFury]

Would everyone casting stones have taken the proverbial high road themselves? I seriously question that.

 

I don't think there's much to question. If a customer of my employer went to my boss with a complaint, I can say completely honestly that about the last thing on my mind would be to publish the guy's name and e-mail address.

[Brian the Automator]

No, I asked "How would you handle it?" because I just wanted people to think about it from the other side. It's easy for us to sit here and say what a jerkbag he is for doing what he did. Would everyone casting stones have taken the proverbial high road themselves? I seriously question that.

If you only knew the volume of emails and private messages I've had (both extremely positive and extremely negative) that I've kept to myself. Maybe I'm an anomaly or whatever, but TH reacted about as rash as you can. The only reason for publishing a guy's name like that is out of spite. Don't get me wrong, I'm thankful to have TH's blog, as it provides some extremely useful info at times, but his "people skills" are in need of a serious overhaul.

 

[RU Rah Rah]

The only reason for publishing a guy's name like that is out of spite.

Exactly. The obvious (if unspoken) message of publishing the name and addy was: Send this guy some nasty email for narcing on me to my boss and messing up the blog. TH realized that and pulled back, but, as the saying goes, you can't unring a bell.

 

[JumpinMacFlash]

No, I asked "How would you handle it?" because I just wanted people to think about it from the other side. It's easy for us to sit here and say what a jerkbag he is for doing what he did. Would everyone casting stones have taken the proverbial high road themselves? I seriously question that.

I don't normally chime in about TH because I can take or leave him. He's probably the best form of Brewers coverage that I have access to right now. I'm not a huge fan of his writing, but his blog has been fairly informative when it came to rumor updates, and that's a big help to me on the other side of the state. The Wisconsin State Journal is mostly a Badger and Packer publication, but I don't even get that right now, so TH fills a need.

 

That being said, what he did was stupid. I'm a journalist myself and I've been criticized and ridiculed for things I've written by people who were angry or upset. Now, I didn't feel like I was at fault or wrong for anything I included in articles, but I didn't sit there and lash out at people who would e-mail me or my organization because it wasn't going to do any good. The articles I've been most criticized for had a much more serious topic than not being informed about an injury to Russell Branyan. The information that I presented was correct and I knew it. One of the articles was about the suicide of a student. I wasn't happy to write it and it was very difficult to do, but the editors and the rest of the staff felt that it was something we needed to do and we had a list of reasons we felt that way. Afterward, I was met with a lot of reactions. I was inundated with hate mail, threatened by others, and even met with friends and the student's significant other to explain the paper's reasoning. My point is, no matter the situation, you have to approach complaints, concerns, and messages with a certain amount of class and respect because criticism is going to come with the job. I'm not a sportswriter and I don't have near the experience that TH does in the field, but I understand that when you assume a position of relating to the public, you actually have to be able to do so with some tact. In this instance, he failed to do that.

[Team Canada]

This just blows my mind. I usually only read the RSS feed, so I just saw the edited version, which I still thought was pathetic. Publishing someones email address is absolutely unacceptable. Anyone have contact information for his boss?

[trwi7]

ghoward@journalsentinel.com

[kramnoj]

http://www2.jsonline.com/general/contact.asp gives you the email address for all editors and management.

 

In my time with retail, when customers get up to management above the store, the relevant manager just wants the problem to go away. It's not usually about disciplining the employee, it's about preventing any issues from reaching them. I would bet that this is being handled in a similar manner. I doubt the managers care very much if some non-paying person got insulted by one of their staff online. They do care about having someone email them and having to deal with it.

[Buckhunts]

I think Tom H. as good at his job. Not great, but good. That is all out need to know in regards to why he still has a job. His people skills at least in regards to the blog are not relevant. Would it be easier on him to be nicer? Sure. But again, as I pointed out awhile ago and others have mentioned, if you had to deal with all the crap he has to deal with on a daily basis, particularly from the people who think they are God's gift to journalism, baseball, or life in general, I'm not surprised it happened. In fact, I am glad he posted the guys name (email might have been a little too much). It is within his and the paper's legal right to do so (at least I think so). And think about this...if he had not mentioned anything about why he would stop posting or reading the comments, 95% of you would be complaining abut that as well and demanding for more info.