Haudricourt condescension toward blog participants ("Adam's" message to Brewerfan in reply #159)

[Darnell Junior]

Tom H is the epitomy of a jag. I don't even bother reading his articles anymore. The worst part is he has all the casual fans eating out of his hands who will take his opinion as fact after every read (not saying that about anyone here, my dad and my friends come to mind).

But what I really wanted to vent about was the amount of venting ABOUT venting going on here. For example, "We're playing so well lets stop being so NEGATIVE I'm so sick of talking about Counsell". I mean, come on. What's fun about being happy with playing well? We're 18 games over, I want to be 19 games over, it's human nature. That's all.

[1992casey]

This all really deserves it's own topic.

 

Agreed. You got it. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[homer]

TH and I think Potrykus are the only reporters that respond to the blog comments. I don't see why he even bothers if he's going to get all upset like that. It's pretty unprofessional (and yes, it's a blog but it's still a JSOnline blog - not the Tom Haudricourt blog - so there should be some semblance of professionalism).

[Bring Back the Stein]

I guess I can't get worked up about him any more. He's an old hack at a breathtakingly mediocre paper, lazy on his beat and unable to come to terms with this newfangled blogging thing, a duty which I'm sure was foisted on him as he kicked and screamed.

 

It's like making peace with the bonehead comments and foul smell of the soiled drunk at the end of the bar. Nothing to be done but move along.

[crewcrazy]

Tom Haudricourt said:

---

To Robertearle

 

You'd expect better research from me before I write that Weeks has been performing better? OK, big shot, here's my research:

 

April: .333 OBP

 

May: .320 OBP

 

June: .309 OBP

 

July: .344 OBP

 

August: .375 OBP

 

Pre all-star break: .320 OBP

 

Post all-star break: .385 OBP

 

Is that good enough for you, big shot? I guess I'm an idiot for thinking a .385 OBP is doing better than .320.

 

You better do your own research before you call me out on stuff. And it's hilarious that you seem to be calling me out as some backer of Weeks. That would be the president of the Rickie Weeks Fan Club, Mr. Akittell.

 

So, get your facts right next time, and then maybe you can question my research or whatever it was you were questioning. As President Akittell will most happily tell you, Weeks' OBP is WAY HIGHER since the break than before the break.

 

"Big Shot?" "President of the Rickie Weeks Fan Club Mr. Akittell?"

 

Judging from the comments to just this particular blog entry, Akittell just inserted some objective discussion by saying something along the lines of "Well, he's not as bad as everyone thinks he is." He never says "RICKIE WEEKS IS THE BEST 2B IN THE NL" or "WEEKS RULZ!!11!" or anything like that, and he gets saddled with the "President of the Fan Club" line.

 

With every comment you get the feeling that he's talking down to his readers, like we're poor uneducated souls just because we don't get a press pass.

[PeaveyFury]

I guess I can't get worked up about him any more. He's an old hack at a breathtakingly mediocre paper, lazy on his beat and unable to come to terms with this newfangled blogging thing, a duty which I'm sure was foisted on him as he kicked and screamed.

 

I think you're right there. It's extremely disappointing, though, that they manage to put together probably the best sports coverage in the Midwest for the Packers via McGinn and Silverstein, along with Bedard and Nickel. Potrykus is great covering the Badgers as well. Yet we're stuck with Haudricourt and Witrado, who are quickly becoming the Laurel and Hardy of baseball reporting.

[rluzinski]

I love how he lists the BA/HR/RBI totals to prove that an offense averaging 5.27 runs over the sample in question isn't doing much. Hey Tom, maybe your numbers are just meaningless?

 

As for Weeks, it's obvious that Tom has lost all objectivity in reporting about him. And you don't have to pretend Weeks is having a good year to think that, either.

[TooLiveBrew]

Haudricort vs TLB in a grudge match. Somebody get this done.

 

In the red coohhhnahhh... weighing in at 'Embarassingly Irrelevant to his Job Duties', is Tooommmm 'The PrINCE of DAHHHkness'... HAUD-RI-CORRRRR!

 

...

 

Seriously, get me in the 'ring' with this guy http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif And no, I'm not Attikel. Sounds like I should subscribe to his newsletter though.

 

Haudricourt is a jag & a hack at this point. He's been brittle & irritated for seasons now, so it's just finally coming to a head that the majority (or at least a large chunk) of his potential readership notices that they can get better info elsewhere and/or on their own.

[pete]

Buffoon, chum, incredibly irresponsible ad infinitum including distorting his reporting of badgerblogger. All this because someone is upset with his salty response on a blog.

 

 

 

Dry your eyes. He's far and away the best reporter covering the Brewers. Its hard to even think of others really. McCalvy is kind of a go along guy who puts out some stuff in a pleasant manner. And then?

 

 

 

Besides the comments on the blog are insane and all over the map. I give him kudos for actually wading into the swamp that is produced there.

 

 

 

The whole thing with bunting has been talked about for years and includes comments over time by Yost and his own father. I think its odd as hell that he refuses. What's up with that?

[kramnoj]

I don't think there is a chance that TH is doing this without knowledge of his superiors. They probably don't figure that there is much crossover between the people that read his stuff in the paper and the people that read his blogs and even another separation from people that will read the comments in his blogs. The JS wants traffic to its site, and one way to do that is engage its readership, even if it means insulting him. I mean, it's the Internet, that's expected.

 

They probably figure that TH's behavior will turn off some people, but it isn't outweighed by the extra traffic they figure they are getting from logging on and seeing who TH is going to insult today. They are also probably figuring out that most of the people that are turned off won't be so stringent in their outrage that they won't check out TH's blog for any breaking news, trade rumors, etc. Sure, TH is a favorite punching bag around here, but there were plenty of people here checking JSOnline's page during the weekend of the CC trade waiting for TH's latest update. Nobody covered that better than him.

[Gobias Industries]

AKA Pete wrote:

All this because someone is upset with his salty response on a blog.

No. I didn't even know who Tom H was until the "Yost is Fired" fiasco. I started lurking here right around the end of the Taylor era, and really haven't bothered to go elsewhere since.

 

Maybe I am a little hard on the guy. He did do a good job covering the CC trade rumors. But for the most part, the man just doesn't really understand the game (BA, HR, RBI), or even have basic knowledge of the minor league affiliates (Yeah, Darren Ford is the centerpiece of a Huston Street trade http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif). And now he's picking fights with a reader that disagrees with him? What a fool.

[Principessa21]

Buffoon, chum, incredibly irresponsible ad infinitum including distorting his reporting of badgerblogger. All this because someone is upset with his salty response on a blog.

 

 

Dry your eyes. He's far and away the best reporter covering the Brewers. Its hard to even think of others really. McCalvy is kind of a go along guy who puts out some stuff in a pleasant manner. And then?

 

 

 

Besides the comments on the blog are insane and all over the map. I give him kudos for actually wading into the swamp that is produced there.

 

 

 

The whole thing with bunting has been talked about for years and includes comments over time by Yost and his own father. I think its odd as hell that he refuses. What's up with that?

That's just like saying "This poop is better because it doesn't have flies." Just because he's not the worst, doesn't absolve him from criticism. The whole lot of them are just terrible and Brewers fans deserve better. I don't care what TH writes anymore, but there should be some form of responsibility. Maybe it's a personal thing, but I grew up a baseball fan in a family where no one liked baseball and I didn't have any friends who did either. This was before the internet so I had to rely on newspapers or announcers. What if there some poor kid out there who wants to learn more and thinks the best is TH? That is why we should all wear bf.net paraphernalia as much as possible.

 

And I agree kramnoj, I definitely think TPTB know what he's doing and don't care because it's traffic to the site. I enjoy beat writer blogs, and I've seen similiar behavior elsewhere, for longer. I just hate that bitterness from the older writers, and it's super frusturating when they're your only option. At least he isn't Murray Chass.

[trwi7]

or even have basic knowledge of the minor league affiliates

We're getting Greg Gross and two pitchers from Toronto for Lyle Overbay!

[kramnoj]

But for the most part, the man just doesn't really understand the game (BA, HR, RBI),

 

TH is speaking to an audience that understands triple crown stats, so he speaks to him in those terms. Now you can certainly hope that his job is to educate as well as inform, but there's a decent percentage of people that don't want to learn. Turning them away in the hopes of noble education doesn't make the JS money, which is their primary goal.

 

or even have basic knowledge of the minor league affiliates (Yeah, Darren Ford is the centerpiece of a Huston Street trade ).

 

Can you point to a single sentence where TH said that Darren Ford was the centerpiece of a trade? I don't think you can. He reported that he heard from his sources that Ford would be included in a trade, and then did some guesswork that turned out to be wrong. Again, the JS wants him to provide content to his blog, and it isn't intended to be news only.

 

And now he's picking fights with a reader that disagrees with him? What a fool.

 

How is that foolish? Look at how many comments are attached to that posting. Controversy drives traffic, which is the goal of his blog.

[PKBadger]

The thing that bothers me the most is the "OMG NO BUNT HITZ!!!1!" thing.

 

Does Tom even realize that the hitters receive coded messages, or "signs", from the 3rd base coach?

 

I'm sure that if Dale Sveum told Rickie to bunt, he would bunt.

[kramnoj]

The thing that bothers me the most is the "OMG NO BUNT HITZ!!!1!" thing.

 

Does Tom even realize that the hitters receive coded messages, or "signs", from the 3rd base coach?

 

I'm sure that if Dale Sveum told Rickie to bunt, he would bunt.

 

Do you really think that TH doesn't know that signs are a part of baseball?

 

I don't think it's common for coaches to tell a player to bunt if the goal is not to advance a runner. I think the point is that if you aren't getting on base doing whatever it is that you are doing and if you have the speed that Weeks has, there will be occasions where the chance of reaching via bunt will be higher. And if the opposing team has to defend against the chance of you bunting, your chance of getting on base by a regular hit increases.

 

Of course, by this point, that really shouldn't be the focus. Weeks has had success lately and the pop he does have is more valuable than the occasional bunt that may or may not work.

[sweepscc]

Tom H would better serve himself and his paper to ban himself from blogging. Some guys just aren't good "off the cuff" communicators and I think Haudricourt falls in this category as he takes himself way too seriously and has paper thin skin. I have also soured on Haudricourt after his mid season attacks on our manager and team, he really needs to regain his composure. I also am not too thrilled with the Witrado kid taking over as he seems sub par. I'm the last person to rag on a man just trying to start his career and I'll still give him more time to grow in the job but the early returns aren't good.

[Godspeed]

Dry your eyes. He's far and away the best reporter covering the Brewers. Its hard to even think of others really. McCalvy is kind of a go along guy who puts out some stuff in a pleasant manner. And then?

That's just like saying "This poop is better because it doesn't have flies." Just because he's not the worst, doesn't absolve him from criticism. The whole lot of them are just terrible and Brewers fans deserve better. I don't care what TH writes anymore, but there should be some form of responsibility.

I agree 100%. Even if Haudricourt was 'far and away the best', which is debatable, his biased reporting and inappropriate interactions with his readers is still completely unacceptable. Why should we have to settle for his mediocre content and shameful conduct?

[Buckhunts]

Everyone take a step back and try to look at this situation from an outsider's point of view. Can anyone truly imagine how much crap he has to listen to and see on a daily basis, whether it is from the team or from the readers? From people making up stories and posting them on random blogs, then having to address them (his one BIG mistake in my book) to people giving him insane trade proposals to people just outright taking shots at him, I'm surprised he has not completely unloaded on someone yet. The blogs are for reporting up to the minute news and for him to give his own opinion. Furthermore, if any of you think that by voicing your opinions in public will cause him to get fired or in trouble, I think you are mistaken. You know that the blogs have only made the number of hits increase on JSonline and that equals higher $$$ for advertising. It's the shock value. While some of his opinions and thoughts I'm sure are true, sometimes I think he responds in a way to get people in a frenzy...and it works. This thread is evidence of it. So in conclusion, give the guy a break. He gives you updates, quality journalism, and is well respected. And if you still want to unseat him from the JS, go to journalism school.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Here's what I know:

 

When I pick up my Journal Sentinal Newspaper every morning and read it on my bus ride to downtown Milwaukee, it provides quality coverage of the Milwaukee Brewers.

 

Here's what I don't care about:

 

How TH responds to some nonsense post on his blog.

 

You are free to speak your mind in this country, right?

[kramnoj]

Why should we have to settle for his mediocre content and shameful conduct?

 

You don't have to settle for it. If you don't think he is useful to you, than you should stop reading him. The problem is that TH serves many audiences, and there is no way that he can be the perfect combination of reporter, critic and blogger for everybody. If TH provides some benefit to you more than other resources, it is best to take what you want from him and go elsewhere for the stuff he doesn't provide. It is unrealistic to think that he will be the perfect source that matches your tastes.

[Gobias Industries]

TH is speaking to an audience that understands triple crown stats, so he speaks to him in those terms. Now you can certainly hope that his job is to educate as well as inform, but there's a decent percentage of people that don't want to learn. Turning them away in the hopes of noble education doesn't make the JS money, which is their primary goal.

 

Fair enough. But he uses the triple crown stats to prove his point and show that he is right and shouldn't be questioned, when in actuality, 2 of the 3 are throw-away stats.

 

 

Can you point to a single sentence where TH said that Darren Ford was the centerpiece of a trade?

 

I'm not going to dig thru his blog, but I believe he said something like "Now I don't know if it's just Darren Ford going to the A's." Anyone that knows a bit about the minor leauge players should be able to figure out that Darren Ford wouldn't be enough to get any useful player, let alone Huston Street. I thought that if that was the only name he had heard, it probably means Ford was the centerpiece, which was half-right in the actual deal.

 

 

How is that foolish? Look at how many comments are attached to that posting. Controversy drives traffic, which is the goal of his blog.

 

Absolutely, I'm sure that's why the JS is letting him rant. I don't think Tom is seeing any additional money from the extra hits his blog receives from the controversy though, making his comments even more unnecessary.

 

 

(fixed code --1992)

[Godspeed]

Why should we have to settle for his mediocre content and shameful conduct?

 

You don't have to settle for it. If you don't think he is useful to you, than you should stop reading him. The problem is that TH serves many audiences, and there is no way that he can be the perfect combination of reporter, critic and blogger for everybody. If TH provides some benefit to you more than other resources, it is best to take what you want from him and go elsewhere for the stuff he doesn't provide. It is unrealistic to think that he will be the perfect source that matches your tastes.

I'm not a regular reader of TH by any means, I just happened upon his post in a slow day at the office. But I don't think it's unrealistic to expect the guy to exhibit at least a modicum of professionalism.

My issue isn't necessarily Tom Haudricourt, he's a lost cause of mediocre drivel. It's the fact that the newspaper holds their Brewers coverage to the basest of standards and allows this sort of conduct out their most public and tenured of Brewer reporters. I'd never expect as much from Bob McGinn on the Packer end.

I hardly think me not wanting to encounter a gentleman berating his readerbase is wholly unacceptable, but it goes deeper than that. Why does Haudricourt continue to interject their personal opinion into game recaps, which should be nothing but the facts? How is this an acceptable form of journalism?

I don't care if the dude gets criticism left and right at the office from his constituents, as much of it is deserved due to his shoddy and biased reporting. But I don't want him gone as much as I want a better product.

[kramnoj]

I'm not going to dig thru his blog, but I believe he said something like "Now I don't know if it's just Darren Ford going to the A's." Anyone that knows a bit about the minor leauge players should be able to figure out that Darren Ford wouldn't be enough to get any useful player, let alone Huston Street. I thought that if that was the only name he had heard, it probably means Ford was the centerpiece, which was half-right in the actual deal.

 

Here is a link to the blog: http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2008/07.aspx?PageIndex=3 Now the title of "Did Brewers trade Ford for Street?" could certainly be confusing, but the actual blog only says that Ford may have been involved in a trade for Street. It certainly never uses the word centerpiece, and it doesn't even hint at it. TH just heard that Ford may have been involved and hadn't heard any other names yet. Anyone who thinks that TH hints that said that Ford was the main player in a deal for Street didn't read that correctly.

 

In a later post, TH even writes "If Class A Brevard County centerfielder Darren Ford is the only player involved, it would be a minor deal for either a bench player (Ray Durham?) or a relief pitcher (Jack Taschner?)." He is clearly saying that Ford alone wouldn't bring much in return.

 

I don't think Tom is seeing any additional money from the extra hits his blog receives from the controversy though, making his comments even more unneccessary.

 

No, I don't think that Tom is given a bonus for extra hits his blog receives. But he may have been told that driving traffic to his blog is an expectation of his employment and he figures this is an easy way to make it happen. Again, if JS management thought his actions were improper, I don't see him continuing to act in this manner.

 

Edit to respond to a later post:

 

Why does Haudricourt continue to interject their personal opinion into game recaps, which should be nothing but the facts? How is this an acceptable form of journalism?

 

TH isn't writing for academia and a higher goal of journalism. He is writing for a business. Some people prefer a little bit of spice in their morning. Cold facts are boring to some. They want to be entertained. TH needs to provide news, but he also needs to be compelling.

 

But I don't want him gone as much as I want a better product.

 

Your idea of a better product may not be shared by enough people to make that feasible. If enough people cancelled their subscription to the JS and cited TH's writing as a reason, I don't doubt that things would change.

[RU Rah Rah]

I think he's gotten almost weirdly defensive for someone who's a professional journalist. Yes, you are going to take some unfair shots, and it's human nature to want to respond in kind. But if you honestly believe that you know more than your blog critics about baseball in general and the Brewers in particular, then why would you let yourself get dragged into name-calling? Just point out the critics' errors and move on, or simply ignore them altogether.