Haudricourt condescension toward blog participants ("Adam's" message to Brewerfan in reply #159)

[Godspeed]

More 'objectivity' from the Brewers beat writer:

Why are you so quick to be a Weeks apologist? I did nothing to insult him in my blog. I just pointed out some guys who have been run producers over that span. I "acknowledged" Weeks' average with all the others, didn't I? You need to simmer down on the Weeks stuff. We get it. You're the president, vice president and treasurer to the Rickie Weeks Fan Club, to the point where you perceive insults that aren't there. You really need to calm down. We get it. Weeks has been better in recent weeks. How could he not be? He was terrible for most of the first half. And he still strikes out far too much, refuses to even attempt a bunt and remains a defensive liability. But if you feel compelled to promote him at every turn and perceive insults that aren't there, go for it.

I find it hard to believe he can't make his point without insulting the initial poster. Haudricourt is a joke. That the Journal-Sentinel allows this sort of conduct out of their writers is laughable. Why can't they hold their Brewers coverage to the higher standard this team deserves?


(appended thread title --1992)

[Glennron]

He will never, ever drop the "can't bunt" thing. Who cares. If he was hitting well and playing good defense I doubt he'd mention it.

[crewcrazy]

TH's JSOnline blog would be a lot more readable if they shut down the comments section, but I did think it was a little weird that he didn't mention Weeks as one of the guys who have been hitting well during this hot streak...he made it sound like Fielder, Hart, and Cameron were the only guys really doing anything at all. And really, if Weeks wasn't hitting much better, suddenly Fielder's and Hart's RBI numbers over that stretch don't look so sexy.

 

I do think there are a lot of people who unfairly hunt out things in an attempt to prove TH has a bias, but like Godspeed said, he's a bit of a dick when he responds to the comments. There's times when he does a good job of answering follow-up questions some people legitimately pose, but there's also many more times that he unnecessarily responds to the people who only comment to get a rise out of him. I know a lot of other papers don't even let the writers use the comment section, and I'm starting to think that would be the way to go for the J-S.

 

Edit: I just read the actual comments, and the guy he's calling out didn't even take much of an accusatory tone -- it was TH that pretty much initiated everything. Witrado may be clueless and arrogant, but at least he doesn't start flame wars in his comments sections.

[TooLiveBrew]

I find it hard to believe he can't make his point without insulting the initial poster. Haudricourt is a joke. That the Journal-Sentinel allows this sort of conduct out of their writers is laughable. Why can't they hold their Brewers coverage to the higher standard this team deserves?

Haudricourt appears to be a troll that would quickly get banned from BF.net. Gee, I wonder why we have crappy Brewers coverage?

Does anyone else think that with the numbers we have here at BF.net, we could really make a loud/influential statement to JS management? IIRC the Sports editor is regarded as a tool, so perhaps we'd have to climb higher up the totem pole. I wholeheartedly agree with GYPE... this team & its fans deserve far better coverage than the chum with which we're stuck.

[logan82]

I did nothing to insult him in my blog.

 

I though saying "it's big boy time" was pretty insulting.

[pretendastronaut]

TH's second reply in that blog post is full on insulting. He essentially trolls on his own blog entries. Class act.

 

To akittell,

 

I didn't "omit" anyone. All 13 position players are listed, with their averages, etc. for the last 11 games. How is that "omitting" anyone?

 

Again, you perceive insults. "Purposeful" omissions? Wow. What a mind you have. I think you starred in the move "Conspiracy Theory," didn't you?

 

Anyway, keep up your fantastic work for the Rickie Weeks fan club. The second player taken in the 2003 draft is batting .231 with a .333 on-base percentage, with 91 strikeouts in 377 at-bats and no bunt hits for the year. And, every time he turns a DP, everybody in the Brewers dugout holds their breath. Bench coach Ted Simmons finally convinced Yost to get Weeks off the field in the late innings of close games, which tells you plenty.

 

Glad to see you don't set the bar too high. Silly me. I expect the second player taken in an entire draft to actually be above-average.

[lcbj68c]

Haudricort vs TLB in a grudge match. Somebody get this done.

[crewcrazy]

The funny thing is, TH shouldn't be expecting the second player in the draft to be above average. It's a total crap shoot. Greg Reynolds and Alex Gordon have also been disappointing in their short careers so far, Justin Verlander is having a horrible year, and there's plenty of below-average guys who have been taken #2 overall: http://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/?overall_pick=2&draft_type=junreg

 

The MLB draft isn't the NFL draft. You're not getting a sure thing when you pick at the top of the first round.

[logan82]

Well how seriously can you take a blog when only triple crown stats are shown? All hits are not equal.

[lcbj68c]

crewcrazy wrote:

 

The MLB draft isn't the NFL draft. You're not getting a sure thing when you pick at the top of the first round.

Ok, Ok. I wont turn this into a Weeks debate. But, are you seriously happy with Rickie Weeks and his production. You are absolutely correct, the draft is a crapshoot. But when you come out of college as a Golden Spikes finalist and hit around .500 with insane amounts of power and speed, don't you think we should be seeing better results at the MLB level, especially after going on 4 years now? Don't you agree that Rickie Weeks is underperforming to his potential? This team can do better at 2B in 2009. I applaud Haudricort for going out on a little bit of a limb and saying that they could even do better for 2008. I don't agree that he should be responding to specific blog comments in the tone that he is, but kudos to him for calling a spade a spade in regards to the play of Rickie Weeks. "Big Boy" was a bit of a insult, but seriously, it is time for Weeks to grow up and play like a major leaguer going on 5 years service time and time for his applogists to grow up a bit and not get their underpants wadded up over an opinion article.

[Godspeed]

lcbj68c wrote:

time for his applogists to grow up a bit and not get their underpants wadded up over an opinion article.

This issue has nothing to do with Rickie Weeks, as much as some people want it to be so they can continue to rip on him. As an aside, it's comical how the 'what-have-you-done-for-me-lately crowd can continue ignore his recent performance in the name of convenience.

I just refuse to accept the subjectivity Tom Haudricourt injects into his reporting, especially when it's baseless and wrong. If that's the sort of standard that makes me an 'applogist', I'll continue to wad up my underpants, because we all deserve better.

[crewcrazy]

I won't say I'm happy with his production, especially when you consider the accolades he picked up in college. Weeks played in a small conference against weak competition in college, though, and was rushed through the Brewers' system. In that sense, I think the Brewers botched their handling of him, and we're seeing the results. It doesn't help, either, that he was thrown into the leadoff spot when he wasn't used to leading off -- it forced him to change his approach at the plate, and he's never looked comfortable up there in the leadoff spot.

 

You're right in saying that Rickie should probably be better than his career numbers show at this point, but I also don't think he's been as horrible as a lot of people think, and he certainly doesn't deserve to get roasted in "It's big boy time" blogs by a writer who's supposed to be objective when covering the team.

[lcbj68c]

I don't think you should take his journalism personally. Especially since these blogs are more opinion than the news articles. They don't appear in the physical newspaper and I've always found them to be observations/opinions rather than short news pieces. I personally always wish Weeks well and do point out when he does well. I think the team can do better over a full season in 2009 than the month or two of hot streaks that you believe most people don't give him credit for. It really comes down to what you want to believe regarding Rickie Weeks, the whole picture or bits and pieces that stand out as exemplary. Again, If Haudricort sticks to being hard on Rickie Weeks for his season, as a whole, and stays away from fighting w/ blog replies, than I have no problem with him.

[Gobias Industries]

It's embarrassing that Wisconsin's largest newspaper employs this buffoon. Calling out your manager and players in the paper is pretty weak but as the Brewers' beat reporter it is his right. Going after JSONLINE message board members though is borderline insane.

 

It basically comes down to Young vs Weeks, as they were by far the top two prospects. I think the choice is easy, as one has been slightly above average offensively at his position with below average defense while battling injuries and learning on the fly, and the other is terrible offensively at his position where defense isn't all that important.

 

It's also useless to judge a player by service time (5 years). At-bats is a much better indicator of experience. Young has 1194 career AB's vs. Weeks 1517.

[lcbj68c]

I guess I just don't see the big deal. The Milwaukee Brewers, when considering positions to upgrade at the trade deadline, made an obvious point that it was 2B and SP that needed upgrades. That to me says a lot about the thinking of coaching and management. What Tom Haudricort wrote was basically in my opinion, "Hey Kid, it's time to get going". "The team has traded for a veteran and if you don't start improving your season totals drastically, there is another option waiting and able to take over." The Brewers didn't get a backup for Ryan Braun, they didn't go get a first baseman, they didn't get a shortstop, or a catcher. They went out and got a backup to the second baseman. I think that speaks volumes and Haudricort was simply over-stating the obvious. I dont think he even really dislikes Weeks, as I don't. He was just saying, "Hey Kid, do it now or there are now other options."

[logan82]

lcbj68c wrote:

It really comes down to what you want to believe regarding Rickie Weeks, the whole picture or bits and pieces that stand out as exemplary.

I does come down to what people believe. Most of the criticism(on the offensive side) comes from people looking only at this year and ignoring Weeks career stats.

[Godspeed]

I guess I just don't see the big deal. He was just saying, "Hey Kid, do it now or there are now other options."

It's not that he wrote it, it's how he wrote it. It's 'Big Boy TimeTM'? Completely unprofessional. And anyone who dares disagree with him is the president of such-and-suches fan club? Give me a break.

This 'I'll-state-my-opinion-by-sneaking-in-an-unnecessary-jab' he continues to place in his game stories is total tabloid BS. It's uncalled for. That's what's holding them back from being the paper they aspire to be. At least the AP, which is always just run of the mill caliber reporting, can tell it straight.

The fact that Haudricourt is blatantly attacking his readers might be tolerated if he had a journalistic leg to stand on, but unfortunately, he does not.

This all really deserves it's own topic.

[sargennm]

I guess I just don't see the big deal. The Milwaukee Brewers, when considering positions to upgrade at the trade deadline, made an obvious point that it was 2B and SP that needed upgrades. That to me says a lot about the thinking of coaching and management. What Tom Haudricort wrote was basically in my opinion, "Hey Kid, it's time to get going". "The team has traded for a veteran and if you don't start improving your season totals drastically, there is another option waiting and able to take over." The Brewers didn't get a backup for Ryan Braun, they didn't go get a first baseman, they didn't get a shortstop, or a catcher. They went out and got a backup to the second baseman. I think that speaks volumes and Haudricort was simply over-stating the obvious. I dont think he even really dislikes Weeks, as I don't. He was just saying, "Hey Kid, do it now or there are now other options."

I think you stated it very well. Whenever someone complains about the media not being "objective" enough it just screams of hypocrisy to me. Most of the time it's because your biases aren't reflected in the news coverage. At least you know where TH stands on things and you can judge his reporting based on that. I don't think TH covers anything up on behalf of the Brewers, and he was the only person to offer some sort of explanation of the Fielder-Parra dust up. I thought he did an excellent job updating the blog during the final days of the CC trade, and he isn't afraid to ask players and coaches tough questions. It's easy to yell about a guy on a message board or from the stands. It's much harder to ask tough questions to guys you have to see and get quotes from day after day.

 

As far as him taking on posters, I find it ill advised. But if I was in his shoes, I'm not sure I would do anything differently. If he feels someone is challenging him, (and I saw that post about Weeks on his blog and thought that guy was before I came here and read this disucssion) I think its well within his right to do so.

 

[Godspeed]

sargennm wrote:

I think you stated it very well. Whenever someone complains about the media not being "objective" enough it just screams of hypocrisy to me. Most of the time it's because your biases aren't reflected in the news coverage. At least you know where TH stands on things and you can judge his reporting based on that.

 

It is a reporter's job to remain objective. Opinions are for columns, not recaps, and it's always appreciated if they were based on facts, not distorted realities. The fact that this particular opinion came about as part of user-interaction speaks volumes of his professionalism.

You honestly don't think anyone else on the staff could do what Tom does without antagonizing their readerbase? All 4 of the J-S's Packer writers manage to remain above the scrum with a much more rabid fanbase. Why can't their Brewers writers follow suit?

[lcbj68c]

Ignoring his career stats is actually doing him a favor http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif It's embarassing. Given Weeks career stats, is that who you really want playing 2b in 2009? Really? This team could do so much better. .245/.345/.409? Over 400 strikeouts in 1500 or so atbats? I guess I just dont see the love-fest and think it is mostly because of potential rather than results.

[lcbj68c]

He has two functions, he is a reporter with news articles and he is a blog writer with blog posts. The two should be seperate. One makes the papers, the other is on the internet. One he acts as a journalist and reporter, the other as an observer/fan. That's how I perceive it anyhow.

[RU Rah Rah]

What really gets me about TH is his tone. It's not really that he has opinions, or chooses to take on posters; both of those things actually can be kind of entertaining. It's more how he does it that is borderline repulsive to me. I mean, "What a mind you have"?

 

Up to this point, I've generally thought he's been tolerable, but my respect for him is really plummeting b/c of the blog.

[sargennm]

It is a reporter's job to remain objective. Opinions are for columns, not recaps, and it's always appreciated if they were based on facts, not distorted realities. The fact that this particular opinion came about as part of user-interaction speaks volumes of his professionalism.

You honestly don't think anyone else on the staff could do what Tom does without antagonizing their readerbase? All 4 of the J-S's Packer writers manage to remain above the scrum with a much more rabid fanbase. Why can't their Brewers writers follow suit?

Objectivity is impossible. A reporter's job is to not let their own opinions or beliefs take precedent over reporting the news. Again, TH reports all sides and injects his opinion in the blogs and his Sunday column when he feels its warranted. You're irritated because he doesn't share your opinion/baseball view. He's also cantankerous, which I think, just exacerbates it. I see just as many people laud TH in his blog as criticize him.

 

 

 

No, I don't think there are many people who could do the job he does. It's much more difficult than people realize to cultivate the type of relationship he has with the main sources on the team and still be able to ask tough questions night after night without the door being slammed in his face.

 

 

I think its the readers that are antagonizing TH, not the other way around. As far as the Packers writers go, the Packers guys get into it with the team instead - McGinn who had it out with Thompson at the post-Favre press conference.

[Godspeed]

sargennm wrote:

You're irritated because he doesn't share your opinion/baseball view.

 

Please don't tell me how I feel. Again, this has nothing to do with Rickie Weeks. I'm mostly irritated because Tom Haudricourt fails to do his job:

a) in a respectable manner while retaining journalistic integrity.

b) with any semblance of professionalism.

Sorry if my expectations dissapoint some, but I don't think they're in any way outrageous.

[fondybrewfan]

As a journalist you just have to assume that anyone could read that blog post, including Ned Yost and Rickie Weeks. Just that fact makes it incredibly irresponsible. You don't constantly question and ridicule members of the team your suppose to be covering even it is in a blog. That is sure fire way to get your media privileges revoked and an easy way to lose all respect in the clubhouse. Of course it seems obvious that he really doesn't have the respect anyways after he posted the "Yost is Fired" rumor back in May when he had absolutely no reliable source to back that up.