The lefthanded bat challenge for 2009

[JohnBriggs12]

A lefthanded bat that I'm sure could be had this offseason: Geoff Jenkins.

 

Don't laugh, it's still possible that a return to the familiar surroundings would be enough to squeeze one more decent year out of Geoff platooning with Kapler with Hart moving to CF.

 

Riske hasn't given the Brewers much and his contract is somewhat of a burden. The Phils might be interested in a Riske for Jenkins swap.

[dadofandrew]

Guys like Jenkins, aging vets on the decline who can platoon a bit; are free talent. You don't need to give anything for them. We'll see, but the Crew seems in no rush to move Corey to CF. Given how good Cameron has done, he might well be back in '09.

[paul253]

We'd have a nice cheap lefthanded bat in Brad Nelson, I just don't know where he could play. Gwynn needs to stick around, even if on the bench. I like the Blalock idea as well. Cameron, Counsell, Gagne, Turnbow and Mota need to be gone. I really, really think we need to resign either Sheets or Sabathia. Sheets is probably cheaper. In 2 seasons Suppan's ridiculous salary will be free, and hopefully we'll have some cheap pitching prospects like Jeffress up making a long term deal worth the risk. I want to see Gamel in Nashville for at least part of the season next year before we count on him as an every day player. His defense....can he play third? 27 errors in 116 games isnt that bad is it?

[kramnoj]

Given how good Cameron has done, he might well be back in '09.

 

That was the speculation from TH on the D-List this morning. With Gwynn not showing that he is ready, the younger OF probably not quite ready for prime time and less than attractive talent available via FA, Cameron's option might be the best decision the Brewers can make.

[reillymcshane]

Pitching-wise, I don't see Sheets or Sabathia for obvious money reasons.

 

As someone said, that leaves Gallardo, Parra, Bush, Suppan and McClung.

 

I think the crew go with that and then look to do an innings eater type player for 3-5 million. Kind of like how the Cards got Kyle Lohse. These guys are a crapshoot, no doubt. If you're lucky, you get Lohse - if not, you get Josh Fogg. Or perhaps a rehab special - someone who wants to show he's still solid after having an injury (or bad year).

 

Hey, maybe Josh Fogg will be a Brewer next year!

[paul253]

Capuano is an option as well. Any starting pitcher signed for more than 2 years is another waste of money, i think, unless its a top of the line started like Sheets or Sabathia. I dont like our rotation next season at all. Suppan Bush and Mcclung are all number 5 pitchers, in my opinion, and we are in trouble if all 3 are in the rotation.

[twobrewers]

I think Weeks and Hall are both gone next year. (At least they will likely give up their starting spots.)

 

I've always thought Cameron would resign - as the Brewers will not play Hart in CF.

 

Too bad Escobar isn't LH.

[Roderick]

Given how good Cameron has done, he might well be back in '09.

 

That was the speculation from TH on the D-List this morning... Cameron's option might be the best decision the Brewers can make.

 

I have no problem with Cameron coming back next year, but definitely not for the $10M option. How about $5.5M?

 

However, even this hinges on whether the Brewers seriously pursue CC or Sheets. If they do sign one, I'm not sure they can afford a half-priced Cameron.

[kramnoj]

I have no problem with Cameron coming back next year, but definitely not for the $10M option. How about $5.5M?

 

However, even this hinges on whether the Brewers seriously pursue CC or Sheets. If they do sign one, I'm not sure they can afford a half-priced Cameron.

 

That's a risk the Brewers will have to judge. They can decline his option and then try to negotiate a lower deal, but then there is a chance that some other team will offer him more. Cameron was probably only available because of the suspension. He may be in more demand this offseason. They will have to do some intensive research to try and judge the market for CF this offseason. Otherwise CF next year may be some combination of Kapler, Nix and Gwynn. That would be cheap, but not likely to provide much production.

 

I agree on the 2nd point as well. Based on the numbers I ran in the FA 2009 thread, I figure that the Brewers could probably afford one of Sheets/CC and be done (whether they take what is offered is a different story), or pick up Cameron and then have money for a mid level starter or a reliever or two.

[endaround]

Not sure why you think Cameron is not worth $10m. Any free agent you sign will be at least as much and for multiple years. You could trade for a CFer but that means giving up talent with likely no improvement in production. Now if the Brewers don't think Brantley has a chance they might look more long term, but Cameron at a year for $10m at this point is hard to pass up.

 

EDIT:They can afford Cameron and Sheets, especially if Suppan can pitch well for two months and they can flip his contract.

[Tbadder]

From John Briggs

How do you know next year's rotation won't allow them to "compete for a playoff spot"??

 

Have you looked in your crystal ball and come up with the names in next year's rotation? Did you forget about Gallardo? What about other FA's and trades?

 

You can't assume that just because Sheets and Sabathia are elsewhere that Melvin's going to chuck 2009. That isn't going to happen. I think the Twins are the perfect example. Melvin has plenty of options in the FA market or to deal to get starting pitching. Besides "competing for playoff spot" is the bare minimum fans can expect and they owe the fans that are coming out in record numbers a team that competes for playoffs.

 

As for Blalock, the issue is his health. He's had recurring issues with his shoulder. Now if he's indeed healthy enough to help the Brewers in 09, then I'm sure the Rangers will know this and pick up his relatively modest $6.2 million option. If they don't pick up that option, it's a sure sign they don't think he can stay healthy.

 

Reply from Tbadder: With CC and Sheets we are a wild card team. With Gallardo and the next best free agent pitcher we will not be as good. The Brewers should "chuck-in" next year, not in the sense of throwing in the towel, but in the common sense approach of taking a longer term approach. Blalock is short term thinking and I'd don't think he's that big of an upgrade from a Branyan/Hall platoon. In the past they were not a playoff team with Sheets/Gallardo at the top, why would they be next year with a Gallardo/free agent or trade pitcher at the top? I honestly don't understand it? I do agree that the offense needs help though. Woeful OBP from everyone other than Fielder--this is a team that needs stud pitching to compete at the upper echelons. Without that, I think they'll be a .500 team, very entertaining, and easy to support. peace Dan

[nate82]

I think the crew go with that and then look to do an innings eater type player for 3-5 million. Kind of like how the Cards got Kyle Lohse. These guys are a crapshoot, no doubt. If you're lucky, you get Lohse - if not, you get Josh Fogg. Or perhaps a rehab special - someone who wants to show he's still solid after having an injury (or bad year).

Brad Penny could be this guy that the Brewers could sign in the off season to a one year contract with an option for the next year. I don't think the Dodgers are going to pick up Penny's option. Penny is having a not so good year so far and I believe he still has a lot left in his tank. I believe Penny could turn it around next year.

 

[Roderick]

Not sure why you think Cameron is not worth $10m. Any free agent you sign will be at least as much and for multiple years.

 

EDIT:They can afford Cameron and Sheets, especially if Suppan can pitch well for two months and they can flip his contract.

Just my opinion. I value the defense and the homers, but I would look for better ways to spend $10M. Now if the Brewers strike out on other free agent or trade scenarios, and they are within the budget, then I would defintely reup the option. When is the option due?

 

I haven't looked at the Suppan thread lately, but doesn't he have some sort of limited no-trade clause. He may not be movable regardless of his play.

[endaround]

I think the crew go with that and then look to do an innings eater type player for 3-5 million. Kind of like how the Cards got Kyle Lohse. These guys are a crapshoot, no doubt. If you're lucky, you get Lohse - if not, you get Josh Fogg. Or perhaps a rehab special - someone who wants to show he's still solid after having an injury (or bad year).

Brad Penny could be this guy that the Brewers could sign in the off season to a one year contract with an option for the next year. I don't think the Dodgers are going to pick up Penny's option. Penny is having a not so good year so far and I believe he still has a lot left in his tank. I believe Penny could turn it around next year.

 

The Dodgers have a huge buyout on that option, so I see no way they decline it. Its for $8m with a $2m buyout, I can't see how any team can turn that down. Now they might trade Penny, but I don't see him as a free agent.

 

[reillymcshane]

Anyone have any thoughts on any young bats - I'm thinking 3B or 2B - someone who could hit lefthanded (and play every day), have a solid glove. I've said I always liked Ian Stewart, but I'm thinking someone not so high on the prospect list - a guy who might get you 10-15 HR and hit .270-.280. I'm looking for a guy who can solidify the 3B or 2B spot, hit with a modicum of power and average - plus provide reasonable defense. But not cost so much as Stewart in a trade. Any AAA players who might project out like this?

[JohnBriggs12]

The Cameron situation is an interesting one. Way back when he was signed my problem with it was that he was too much like Hall offensively in that he struck out a lot and didn't him much for average and was right handed. That fact has come home to roost now with Yost even playing the very limited Counsell over Hall to break up the right hand dominated middle of the order.

 

I don't think it would be wise to retain Cameron unless you deal Hall. I'd even revisit the idea of Hall in CF at least in a platoon situation with an actual real lefthanded threat (sorry but Counsell's not it).

[JohnBriggs12]

Guys like Jenkins, aging vets on the decline who can platoon a bit; are free talent. You don't need to give anything for them. We'll see, but the Crew seems in no rush to move Corey to CF. Given how good Cameron has done, he might well be back in '09.

 

Al, Jenkins isn't free. He still has $8 million guaranteed after this year. While I'm sure the Phillies would love to unload him for a bag of balls, any team dealing for him would want even out the dollars.

 

Face it, Carlos Villanueva is doing (quite well I might add) the job they paid Riske handsomely this offseason to do. Not that Riske's been terrible but he's not in a role worth his contract (he's owed at least $9 million after this season), and dealing him would offset Jenkins entire contract.

[dadofandrew]

I meant guys like Geoff are free. We should not need to give up a decent relief guy for him.

[danzig6767]

A lefthanded bat that I'm sure could be had this offseason: Geoff Jenkins.

 

Don't laugh, it's still possible that a return to the familiar surroundings would be enough to squeeze one more decent year out of Geoff platooning with Kapler with Hart moving to CF.

 

Riske hasn't given the Brewers much and his contract is somewhat of a burden. The Phils might be interested in a Riske for Jenkins swap.

No way, Jenkins is in real decline and Melvin saw it coming. He's playing in a tiny ballpark and has a terrible .730 OPS vs righties and pitcher like hitting stats vs lefties in very limited at bats. I wouldn't give him the starting job vs righties even if he played for the league minimum, the birthdays have sapped Jenkins of his one nice hitting skills.

 

[dadofandrew]

I did a post at Ramblings once showing how many corner OF's just drop off a cliff at 32 or so. I'll have to find that, as Geoff seems to be joining that group.

[MNBrew]

The righty-lefty thing doesn't strike me as as big of a concern as a few other things:

 

- The fact that the Brewers have too many all-or-nothing offensive players. They need many fewer Ks and significantly better BA & OPS. Weeks, Cameron, & Hall are all having years that are well below what I think they ought to be doing. Cameron's power & RBIs are pretty positive, actually, but the high Ks and low BA & OPS out of these 3 (not that others are fully innocent, either) are just killing the Crew. At least Cameron's a defensive stud, but the Crew may be better off with a Kapler/Gwynn combo platter in CF next year. Hall may be a great athlete but I'd sure love to see his $6M salary next year coming from another team and someone like Hardy (with Escobar at SS) or Dillon/Branyan/Durham/Gamel manning 3B. Counsell should start his coaching career or sign to play elsewhere next year.

 

- Side note to above: Given the contributions he makes to the pitching staff, his SB defense, and his knack for decent if sometimes too often unproductive ABs, I'm quite pleased that Kendall's option for next year has vested. AND I'd also make Rivera a well-paid backup C, whatever it'd take to keep him.

 

- Ben Sheets has won only once since the Sabathia trade and has had more outings where he's looked like Jeff Suppan or Dave Bush than Ben Sheets. The high hits/medium-to-low Ks thing, along with a penchant for longer, mediocre stretches, are are a couple reasons I'd rather see the Brewers sign Sabathia to a near-Santana-type contract than Sheets. Think about it. CC is a proven stud. Sheets is a sometimes stud, sometimes only a potential stud. The Crew really hasn't gotten nearly $40M's worth of production from Sheets the past 4 years. I'd love to have both of 'em back, don't get me wrong. But if the $$ are prohibitive, which it sounds like they are, then I'll take CC first by a mile. With YG, MP, DB, SM, & CV, the Brewers would already have 6 potential starters before including Suppan, whom I wouldn't mind seeing in another team's uniform (and on another team's payroll) next year, too.

 

I'd rather not see Jenkins return next year.

[PeaveyFury]

Weeks, Cameron, & Hall are all having years that are well below what I think they ought to be doing. Cameron's power & RBIs are pretty positive, actually, but the high Ks and low BA & OPS out of these 3

 

Cameron has a .831 OPS, which is his 2nd highest OPS since 2001, and the third best in his career. His BA is almost identical to last year's, and he's just slightly below his career average. If he's performing well below what you think he should be, what were you expecting from him heading into this year?

[MNBrew]

Weeks, Cameron, & Hall are all having years that are well below what I think they ought to be doing. Cameron's power & RBIs are pretty positive, actually, but the high Ks and low BA & OPS out of these 3

 

Cameron has a .831 OPS, which is his 2nd highest OPS since 2001, and the third best in his career. His BA is almost identical to last year's, and he's just slightly below his career average. If he's performing well below what you think he should be, what were you expecting from him heading into this year?

What I think he ought to be doing and what I expect, at least in this case, are not the same. He's a career .250 hitter. Technically, Cameron's is a large enough sample that that's what I'd expect, maybe a litttle lower since he's a 30-something-year-old veteran with a little downward trend. He's hit mid-.260s and higher 4 times. I think that's what he ought to be doing. He's a veteran, hardly washed up. He should be able to make some better adjustments.

 

I was deliberate in my word choice, which I realize means my thoughts may well fly in the face of sabermetrics. You're probably more right than I am. I just think Cameron ought to be hitting 25 points higher and getting on base 30 points better than he is. That's what the team needs. Do what Carlos Lee taught several Brewers hitters (not that it stuck): shorten your swing with 2 strikes and focus on putting the ball in play.

 

[endaround]

If Cameron was capable of hitting for 25 more points and had a higher OBP it would be nice but meaningless because he wouldn't be in Milwaukee. BTW Cameron's career OBP is .340 while Lee's is .344.

[kramnoj]

I just think Cameron ought to be hitting 25 points higher and getting on base 30 points better than he is.

 

That's a difference of about 8 hits so far this year. You think him not getting an extra hit once every 10 games is killing the crew?