Francisco Cordero, Aren't We Glad He Isn't Here...

[rickey24]

While I haven't seen a topic on him in the threads (please feel free to lock this if it should be in an ongoing thread), but has anyone noticed what has taken place to our old friend Mr. Coco Cordero since the All-Star Break? Here are the numbers:

 

Win - 0

Loss - 3

Saves 3/5

ERA 13.50

IP 7.1

Hits 16

R -11

HRA - 2

BB- 8

K - 8

Ratio - 3.29

 

Also, check out his home and road splits: You can clearly see that Mr. Coco isn't doing so well in Cincinnati, with an ERA a full run and a half higher than on the road. Also, his BB/K is 20/33, v. 11/22, while giving up 31 hits in only 30.1 innings pitched, he's also allowed 51 baserunners at home in those 30.1 innings of work.

 

I know there was a lot of hand wringing about letting him go this off-season, but I for one thought it might have been the best move for the Brewers not to sign him, especially considering the kind of cash the Reds had to pay for him. I frankly knew that playing in Cincinnati he'd see the difference between Miller Park and Great American, and wonder why he left. You often wonder why teams don't improve from year to year, this is a good example, spending that kind of cash for a guy to close games for a team that is now in the basement of the NL Central. I'm sure the Reds could have spent that cash in other areas (let's not get into giving Corey Patterson the starting CF job out of ST over Jay Bruce).

 

When I saw Doug Melvin this off season at the Winter Warm-Up, he was pretty upset that Cordero didn't give the club the chance to top the Reds offer, I think now however, he has to feel better when he sees the kinds of games that Cordero has had since the All-Star Break. Last night's game was typical of Cordero, falls in love with the slider, forgets his fastball, doesn't get a call, and it all falls apart. Remember some of those ugly Brewers losses last year when he had two outs, but just couldn't close the deal? Think Texas, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Chicago and they'll come rushing back. If you've got MLB.TV, check out these three games for a little entertainment:

 

July 17 v. NY Mets

July 21 v. San Diego

August 8 v. Houston

 

The last time Cordero was in town, I offered him $2 to come back to the Brewers, he told me he needed at least $4. So, after talking this over with management (my wife), I decided to offer him the extra cash and gave him $4, now I think I want my $4!

 

Rickey

[BrewCrewRising]

This is a timely thread since somebody just yesterday posted the thread about the Jim Caples article and how overrated the closer is.

 

A save stat is invented, and agents can market their players as being very valuable to the bullpen. After a while the culture of the game buys into this as such, and BOOM, closers make insane amounts of cash, and as such are closely scrutinzed. Basically you pay a closer to be consistently good so that every time you get to the ninth inning you have a good shot at winning.

 

CoCo had rough stretches with the Crew too, and didn't do as well out of Miller Park as in. I'm glad that Melvin wasn't given a chance to top that offer, because that is a lot of money to pay somebody to be consistent in his permanent home in the 9th inning when he has shown he really isn't. He's a good pitcher, but I think he is overrated like most closers.

 

I wish the Brewers had that knack to develop closers from within the organization like the A's and Twins do.

[rickey24]

I wish the Brewers had that knack to develop closers from within the organization like the A's and Twins do

Yeah, but really the Brewers have been very good about getting guys that are on some other team's scrap pile, and make them into gems (Wickman, Leskanic, DeJean, Kolb, Turnbow, Cordero, Torres), where the Twins got Nathan from the Giants for AJ, the A's have also tried the Brewers approach. Before Street, the A's had used Billy Taylor, Issy, Koch, Foulke & Dotel all of which came to the A's at a discounted price and Billy Beane made them a star. I think the Brewers approach to closers is the right way to go about it, and I think it shows spending the big cash (Gagne) isn't always the right thing to do.

 

Rickey

[trwi7]

Maybe next time Cordero pitches at Miller Park (hopefully never, but that doesn't seem realistic) we should all give him a standing ovation for taking the extra $4 million. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[BrewCrewRising]

Before Street, the A's had used Billy Taylor, Issy, Koch, Foulke & Dotel all of which came to the A's at a discounted price and Billy Beane made them a star. I think the Brewers approach to closers is the right way to go about it, and I think it shows spending the big cash (Gagne) isn't always the right thing to do.

Foulke and Dotel were already established closers before coming to Oakland. Foulke with the White Sox, and Dotel with Houston.

Do you mean the Brewers former way of going about it? Since they were ready to shell out money for CoCo, and made the blunder with Gagne, I'm not certain that they have an established "way".

 

I like the idea of ammasing arms and seeing what goes, and mixing that with home grown talent. I suppose that doesn't always work though. Wise, Turnbow, Kolb and Adams all fit that bill, and worked out for a short while, but it's not like the Brewers found true diamonds in the rough. They found temporary shelter from the storm, but that's about it.

[ILuvDaBush]

Can we add Matt Wise here as well? I was a big Wise supporter, with the Bugs Bunny changeup that made hitters look like my 2 year old nephew at the plate. But honestly, the 'stache sent him away and it has looked very...wise. I will never forget the day when we were up 5 to the Phils going to the ninth. Walk...HR. No recorded out by the Wiser. Send in our exalted closer... At least we made it to extras...where Pat the Bat sent me home scorned with an L. The Scarlet Letter than cursed our season last year. Good Riddence, and I hope you had the time of your lives here, boys.

[pete]

Over at Redreporter they have taken to calling him soso Cordero. I thought that was funny.

[davego]

I know this has been posted before, but I think the 'Crew has/had some 'closers in waiting' in Bush and Seth. Agreed that they have more vaule being successful in the rotation, but I'd be willing to try either in the pen as needed.

[dadofandrew]

No one minded the cash Frankie got, it was the 4 years. Tough to figure he'll be worth anything close to that in 2010 & 2011.

[logan82]

I wouldn't mind CoCo in addition to everybody else in our current pen. I really would hate to be tied to CoCo after next year though.

[yfinn6]

1 yr, 30 million contract just to ensure that he should have stayed here this year. Cripes Melvin, even I thought of that!

[hawing]

The last time Cordero was in town, I offered him $2 to come back to the Brewers, he told me he needed at least $4. So, after talking this over with management (my wife), I decided to offer him the extra cash and gave him $4, now I think I want my $4!

Well, this explains why Cordero completely ignored the (lone) $1 bill I was waving at him back on July 11. Thanks for the backstory, Rickey! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[JJHardy7]

I know there was a lot of hand wringing about letting him go this off-season, but I for one thought it might have been the best move for the Brewers not to sign him, especially considering the kind of cash the Reds had to pay for him.

 

I think this was more of worrying about who would close in 2008 than Cordero. I was never a fan of the Gagne signing and he's turned it around a little now, but if he was our closer all year we wouldn't be where we are. Who would know that Torres was the answer? I think that's exactly some of your point in how the Brewers have found closers in the past. It'd be nice to have some in the minors and develop them, but the Brewers have shown they can find that guy.

[silversurferr]

Davego; No way Bush is a closer. From our own system, I'm wondering whether Jeffress or Pena can develop into quality bullpen arms.

[joepepsi]

I've never bought into the "closer mentality" myth. All players say things like "today is just another game", "tomorrow is another game", "it's a long season", and they all want to be the guy who hits the game winner in the bottom of the 9th, or gets the last out to win the game. So, don't all players at this level have the "closer mentality"?

 

I don't have the odds in front of me, but years ago I came across the winning pcts. in history for teams in "save situations". Even before the closer was invented the number were something like this: Teams leading by 3 in the 7th win 85% of the time; leading by 3 in the 9th win 95% of the time; leading by one in the 9th wins 90% of the time. The numbers are even more lopsided when it's the home team leading late in the game.

 

What this tells me, it's almost irrelevant who is your closer. Any reliever who can consistently pitch a scoreless inning, someone like Torres, should do fine as a closer. I'd bring him back next year, if he's willing. Personally, I think Villanueva would make a great closer. He's already the team's best reliever. As long as he keeps the ball down he's good for two scoreless innings every outing.

[eanelson4]

Davego; No way Bush is a closer. From our own system, I'm wondering whether Jeffress or Pena can develop into quality bullpen arms.

 

No way they should even consider Jeffress for the bullpen at this point. He is too young to not give him a shot at starting. I think in 4 years if he is still in the minors and struggling starting, then maybe you give him a second look and toss him in the bullpen. I'm sure he would be lights-out there.

[JohnBriggs12]

Villanueva is a sleeper for the closer's role at some point. Guys like Hoffman, the Joneses, Todd and Doug and a few others have proven you don't need an overpowering fastball to pitch the 9th inning.

 

Down the line in the system, keep an eye on Rob Wooten who figures to be rising very, very fast.

[davego]

Not that this matters a ton, but he was a top-fight closer (Bush) as Wake.

[fondybrewfan]

Holy crap Cincy is in one heck of a tailspin. With the impending loss of Dunn this team could have som problems, they have a lot of young SP and a couple good lefties in Bruce & Votto but atleast IMO their future isn't looking as bright as it once was. Cueto and Volquez have fallen back quite a bit and Homer Bailey just can't do anything right it seems.