Sports Illustrated's top 2009 free agents, Brewers related

[JoeHova]

In the latest Sports Illustrated, they talk about the top few free agents for next year. They don't mention the Brewers having any interest/chance to resign Sabathia or Sheets, which I can see. I hope they at least stay in the negotiations in case something crazy happens, but I think that's a legit opinion. However, Joe Sheehan (who writes for BP too and who is generally unimpressive as an analyst and insider) has the Brewers being the top suitor for Francisco Rodriguez.

 

Now, I don't want to bash Frankie (I actually like him quite a bit) or get into a discussion about various declining rates of his, I just wanted to know if anybody else thought that was somewhat ridiculous. I would think that, if the Brewers want to spend $15+ million per year on a long-term deal for a pitcher, it would be for a starter. Or am I off-base with that opinion? It seems like Sabathia at 7 years $140 million would make more sense than Frankie at 6 years 100 million or whatever. Not because there's anything wrong with Rodriguez, but just because starters throw 3-4 times as many innings as closers and CC and Ben are probably among the top 25 best starters in baseball.

[paul253]

I couldnt agree more. They could have had Cordero for 4 years and 48 million, so why spend all that extra money on a guy that pitches one inning every couple of games? Take that money, and make an offer to Sabathia that doesnt insult him. I cant imagine he'd turn down 7 years at $140 million dollars.

[GoudaBrew]

I cant imagine he'd turn down 7 years at $140 million dollars.

Nor would we or any team offer 7 years. He'll possibly get 6 and in the 120s, but I highly doubt 7. I'd love to have him though.

edit: didn't mean to sounds rude. I just think teams have learned from the Giants mistakes (Zito)

 

[endaround]

Sabathia isn't Zito. Add 10 Million to Santana's contract and up the option buyout and you have Sabathia. 6 years/ 148m plus a 8-10m buyout on a 7th year at $25m

[JoeHova]

Sabathia isn't Zito. Add 10 Million to Santana's contract and up the option buyout and you have Sabathia. 6 years/ 148m plus a 8-10m buyout on a 7th year at $25m

 

 

He's not Santana either.

[paul253]

Nor would we or any team offer 7 years. He'll possibly get 6 and in the 120s, but I highly doubt 7. I'd love to have him though.edit: didn't mean to sounds rude. I just think teams have learned from the Giants mistakes (Zito)

I didnt find it rude, dont worry. I mentioned in another thread 6 years at $120 million and another poster made it sound like that offer was laughable, so i just added on another year. If he'd sign for 6 at $120 even better. Id be more than willing to give him that. As endaround pointed out, he's much better than Zito is, and is much more worthy of that contract. He may not be Santana, but nobody really is. He may be the next best thing though. If you are going to spend all that money on one player, it'd better be Sabathia, or, maybe a little less for Sheets. Without one of them our rotation is going to be bad. You are counting on Gallardo, with less than a full season under his belt, as the ace, and Parra, who has been going through a bit of a slump lately, as number 2, then 3 guys who should be number 5's anchoring the rotation. You have to do something.

[nate82]

However, Joe Sheehan (who writes for BP too and who is generally unimpressive as an analyst and insider) has the Brewers being the top suitor for Francisco Rodriguez.

This makes no sense at all for the Brewers to go after a pitcher like Francisco Rodriguez when Torres or someone from the minor leagues could do just as good of a job and still give you as many wins as Francisco would give you. Francisco may get you 2 or 3 more extra wins over a Torres or someone picked off the scrap heaps.

 

Also Francisco is going to get a big payday after this season. If Cordero and Rivera got the big contracts last year what do you think Francisco Rodriguez is going to get this year? I bet it will be at or above $17 million a year. I don't see the Brewers paying that much money for a closer if they are not willing to pay that much for Sabathia or Sheets. This is why this doesn't make any sense at all.

[crewcrazy]

I want no part of Francisco Rodriguez. The guy is going to shatter the record deal for relief pitchers after he breaks a meaningless record this year (with as many save-situation games the Angels find themselves in, any closer in baseball would be chasing that mark right now), and he makes Jose Valverde and Carlos Zambrano look like calm guys. With that violent motion, I wouldn't be surprised if he runs into arm problems in the future, too. Torres has been good enough that I'd want him to stick around...let someone else make the K-Rod mistake.

 

I'd hope the Brewers at least make an offer to Sabathia and/or Sheets, but at the same time, a lot of guys are starting to hit arby so it's hard to plan what an extension for either pitcher would look like. It'd be nice if Hart and Hardy would sign a long-term deals to lock down their salary status, but keeping one of the two pitchers would pretty much guarantee Prince being traded with the next year or two, wouldn't it?

[nate82]

It'd be nice if Hart and Hardy would sign a long-term deals to lock down their salary status, but keeping one of the two pitchers would pretty much guarantee Prince being traded with the next year or two, wouldn't it?

Don't be surprised if Hardy is the one who is dealt before Prince is. Especially with the Brewers being in love with Escobar. I could see Hardy being dealt this off season for pitching help if one of Sheets or Sabathia are not retained by the Brewers. Hardy actually has more value right now than Prince does. That is if Hardy stays strong thoughout this year. I could see Hardy being shipped to the Royals or the Rays for some of their pitching prospects. The same can be said about Prince but I believe Hardy right now has the higher value than Prince or any other player on the Brewers team right now.

 

Hart will sign a long-term deal at the end of the season probably somewhere around the time of the winter meetings. Corey is not going to sign a long term deal during the season. I believe he is waiting until the offseason to gauge how much he is worth, which is smart for him to do. I really do see Hardy as the odd man out at the end of this season. In my honest opinion I believe it should be Prince and have Nelson up next year and then have Gamel play 1B in 2010 or the earliest in the second half of 2009. Hardy could be shift over to 3B opening a spot for Escobar at SS. I believe Hardy would be adequate at 3B number wise and would be an above average 3B defensively.

 

[GB12]

No way would I want KRod. I'm strongly against giving big money to closers. They can be found for cheap. Kolb and Turnbow each put up 39 saves on a low paying contract and Torres is doing well this year. We have Torres under contract still for next year too. You're right on when you said if you're going to spend big money on a pitcher it should be a starter. I'd be pissed if we gave KRod big money over Sabathia.

[paul253]

I think you'd get much more for Prince than you would for Hardy. I really want them to keep Hardy and move him to third. It would vastly improve the defense. Trade Prince, because nobody seems to think we can sign him long term anyway. You can probably get 3 solid prospects, including two pitchers, for him, which is exactly what we need. The draft has been working so well lately and next year we'll get another haul in picks because of Sheets and Sabathia. You have all these position players coming up and really no pitchers I am excited about other than Jeffress, and even he has issues. Hardy would sign for cheaper and could finally fill that black hole at third base we've had for so long. It would also allow Taylor Green to move to his more natural secondbase assuming Cleveland doesnt nab him. We need pitching because if we can finally develop our own, we wont have to throw $12 million at guys like Jeff Suppan.

[dadofandrew]

I don't see a match between FRod and the Crew. If they'd give a lot, someone would give more.

[nate82]

I think you'd get much more for Prince than you would for Hardy. I really want them to keep Hardy and move him to third. .

You would think that Prince would bring in more than Hardy. You have to remember though that Hardy is playing at SS and won't be as expensive as Prince would be. Hardy is actually more valuable than Prince is right now both the Royals and Rays have a hole at SS. Hardy may not want to move over to 3B. He would be losing money if he moves to 3B. Hardy will also not be signed cheap either Hardy is one of the top NL SS. I don't think Hardy will sign for very cheap at all he will be cheaper than what it would cost to keep Fielder though.

 

Now here is the reason why Hardy will get more in return than Prince would. #1 Prince is due about $7-9 million after this year for arbitration. That puts the Royals and Rays out of a deal for Prince the two teams with probably the best pitching prospects in their systems. That leaves us with the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, and a few other teams. The Yankees have Hughes and Kennedy (Kennedy is a Dave Bush type of a pitcher). Hughes could be labeled as an injury prone player and the Yankees will probably just sign Teixera instead of trading for a player like Fielder. Arod/Jeter will taking over the DH spot in a couple of years anyways so Fielder doesn't make sense there. The Red Sox system is great but I don't see anyone I would want to trade for Fielder. The Angels have Adenhart and Wood who would make sense for the Brewers. The Rangers are also another team I could see the Brewers trading with they have some good pitching prospects but mostly catching prospects.

Hardy could land a Niemann and some other low level prospects. To me Hardy is more expendable to teams that fill a need for the Brewers than Fielder does.

[dadofandrew]

It seems to me Prince would garner more in trade...but not much.

 

The difference between free talent at 1B, say Scott Hatteburg versus Prince is not as great as the spread between JJ and a Juan Castro type. The mere fact JJ is a decent SS who can hit a HR to RCF as a RH bat makes him one of a unique breed.

[DHonks]

nate, is Niemann still a prosect? Seems to me that he's still surviving on his reputation from Rice.

[nate82]

nate, is Niemann still a prosect? Seems to me that he's still surviving on his reputation from Rice.

I meant to say a Niemann like prospect. I think he is still considered a prospect.

 

[ILuvDaBush]

I would have rather traded for Joe Nathan (as we were rumored to be doing this past offseason) than sign K-Rod to a monster deal, but also remember that the deal for BJ Ryan was considered ludicrous....for about a year or two. Then the Brewers were offering a similar deal to Coco because the bar has been set. The word I'm hearing right now is $15mil, which is a great deal of money, but at least then you have no doubts about the last inning. The reason the Brews are considered the front runner in the hypthetical race is because it has been 25 years since the Brews have had a sweatless ninth (I was probably in the minority in not believing Coco was a truly ELITE closer, in the Rivera/Nathan/K-Rod/Saito mold). But all of that said, give the money to a starter, be it Sheets or Sabathia. Honestly, I think this offseason is going to see K-Rod signed by Arte (unless he breaks the bank for his switch-hitting HOF) and the Brews reupping with Sheets as Sabathia signs with the Dodgy Fellows. Then again, the Dodgy Fellows could end up signing Tex and the Angels could end up with Sabathia as K-Rod is signed by Boston (putting the lowest ERA in the modern era into their rotation). But instead of speculating on this offseason, I prefer to speculate on this postseason, as in, "Brewz over Angels in 6 as K-Rod blows back-to-back saves."

[JoeHova]

Arte (unless he breaks the bank for his switch-hitting HOF)

 

It was Teixeira who got traded to LAA, not Chipper.

[clancyphile]

I'll be optimistic: Sheets and Sabathia both re-sign with the Crew - Sheets for 5 years, $65 million, Sabathia for 6 years, $105 million.

[DHonks]

Somehow Tom Haudricourt thinks Sheets will only get 4 years at $50-60 million. I think he'll get 4 years and 70 million. And I do think Sabathia can be resigned, unlike Haudricourt, as I wouldn't expect Hall to be back, with the possibility that Weeks might be moved (although he's doing fairly well lately)

[endaround]

Hall will be back because his cost ins't high enough to dump when there's still talent there. If either Sheets or Sabtahia (and yes Sabathia is a pipe dream, he's almost certainly going to be the highest paid pitcher in the game) the Brewers have to move Suppan. Sheet might have to settle for 4 years, but I still think it will be 5yrs/$90 m.

[igor67]

I like Corey and all, but I do wonder if he is a guy really worth holding onto long term when we have so many other quality OF bats. I'm not saying don't sign an extension, but it really makes more sense to hold the rare talents and cycle the good talents. Based on that I really think you at a minimum go hard after CC and ignore this silly noise about how next year we won't be as strong. We might not be as strong, but it's not like we are going to stink.

[clancyphile]

I like Corey and all, but I do wonder if he is a guy really worth holding onto long term when we have so many other quality OF bats. I'm not saying don't sign an extension, but it really makes more sense to hold the rare talents and cycle the good talents. Based on that I really think you at a minimum go hard after CC and ignore this silly noise about how next year we won't be as strong. We might not be as strong, but it's not like we are going to stink.

I have to agree. For the most part, particularly in the OF, the farm system produces decent (at worst) hitters.

Pitching has been more problematic. CC and Sheets have to be the first priority in FA, even if it means cutting Cameron and Kendall loose. Rivera's not bad (when he gets a chance to play), and Rottino could also do some catching.

 

[Team Canada]

Clancy, those numbers aren't even optimistic, they're fantasy. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif There's no way that's even close to what they get. If the Brewers were able to to both of those deals, that would be amazing.

[smetana34]

Sheets first deal was what? 4 at 48 million? Hes been injured for long periods of time in the first 3 years of the deal. So 4-5 years at 50-55 million isnt that far-fetched. And i would think that Sabathia would be intrigued by a 6 year 120 million dollar deal. This team is on the rise, hes got some good friends on the team, and IF we could get Sheets back as well, he wouldnt feel as though he would have to carry the big load. And im sure being able to pitch with an ace like Sheets, and a guy like Yo, would be something he would look into to.