Brewer 3B Options For The Rest of The Year

[Oldcity]

A great illustration was made yesterday on how bad this is when it was pointed out in the game thread that the loss of production from Branyan to Counsell at third is greater than the loss of production from Braun to Kapler in left.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Branyan has 4 errors. He has 89 chances. Both are very small samples. I'll take Counsell's career 98.5% fielding percentage and take it to the bank. Even though he might not have the arm he used to, he's still an above average defender. It is debatable whether Branyan is above average. I would consider Branyan average at best.

[And That]

Branyan has 4 errors.

...in more than 4 times as many chances. And I'm pretty sure you know fielding percentage isn't a great argument, but if you're playing that game Branyan has a better one. Maybe you're "remembering" more errors for Branyan, though.

Edit: You know what? If you want a soon-to-be 38 year old, bunt charging, weak armed dude with a 628 OPS playing third base over a not half-bad defensively 32 year old with 928 OPS, God bless.

 

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

It's part of the Socratic method. You still haven't answered my question!

 

I didn't realize we use Chinese philosophy here on bf.net.

Counsell has stated the team would be better if he weren't playing every day.

Is Counsell playing everyday? You must be watching a different team than I am. From what I've seen he's just platooning for the time being.

[endaround]

It's part of the Socratic method. You still haven't answered my question!

 

I didn't realize we use Chinese philosophy here on bf.net.

I'm not sure, is this a joke?

 

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I'm not sure, is this a joke?

I'm pretty sure the socratic method is Chinese philosophy. I could be mistaken though. I fell asleep in philosophy class in college quite often.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Edit: You know what? If you want a soon-to-be 38 year old, bunt charging, weak armed dude with a 628 OPS playing third base over a not half-bad defensively 32 year old with 928 OPS, God bless.

As I previously stated in this thread, I did say I would rather have Branyan at 3B over Counsell. Check it out. I'm just telling you it's not all that bad to have Counsell in there for 2 lousy weeks.

 

That said, I'd still go with Branyan, but not all is bad with Counsell starting at 3B.

This is my quote from earlier in the thread for good measure.

[logan82]

Pretty sure Socrates was not Chinese.

[Fatter than Joey]

I'm pretty sure the socratic method is Chinese philosophy. I could be mistaken though.

 

You should be embarrassingly mistaken -- Socrates was Greek. This however, is probably not your silliest post in this thread.

[TheRealMattKain]

I'm pretty sure the socratic method is Chinese philosophy. I could be mistaken though. I fell asleep in philosophy class in college quite often.

Well, I was going to make another post arguing that Branyan over Counsell is the correct choice, but now I see what I'm up against. Come on, man. Socrates? You're kidding, right? I recommend reading this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method

 

And then watching this:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096928/

 

 

[fondybrewfan]

I can't see a reason for Branyan not starting against lefties at this point, if OBP is the issue than that is the dumbest argument ever because if Branyan is good at anything it is getting on base, or at least rounding the bases. While Branyan certainly isn't a gold glover he is at most marginally worse than Counsell. The ceiling for Counsell playing is maybe a couple hits with an outside chance for a double while taking a fair amount of pitches. The ceiling for Branyan is a couple dingers. I know Branyan can also strike ou 4 times a game but Counsell has proven in the last 10 days that he can to. As has previously been pointed out, during Counsell's sudden increase in playing time he has pretty much sucked, so at least IMO Craig hasn't earned any of this which lead me to think Ned has some kind of beef with Hall and Branyan. We are in a pennant race our best 3rd basemen should be out there and that is certainly not Craig Counsell

[logan82]

- Does Yost have something against Branyan? Branyan seems to be the best choice to play against RHP yet we see Hall or Counsell at 3B constantly.

 

A: Brewers Mailbag - For some reason, Branyan fell out of favor. I would guess Counsell's increased playing time has something to do with his defensive prowess.

Fell out of favor and defense. Thanks for the insight Tom.

[Katuluu]

Philosophy is all Greek to me.

[datrain711]

TWR-please stop.

 

It seems that the only argument that has been drawn out in this thread is that Counsell doesn't "seem" to make bad mistakes and therefore should be on the field, especially when we are "already" scoring runs. This is a dubious argument at best. Counsell is a guy I want to root for, and I think his worth can get overestimated because he is the hometown veteran scrappy white guy. However, to say that he should be taking at bats from Branyan is just incorrect. Branyan has been more valuable by almost every valuable statistic. And there is no way that "intangibles" can make up for these kinds of statistical disadvantages, otherwise World Series teams would consist of 8 Mark Derosa's

[rluzinski]

Why would Tom even answer the question when he literally knew nothing about the situation? That's because he doesn't care that Branyan is sitting , in favor of Counsell. Contrast that with how Tom seems to hound Yost about Weeks on a daily basis and the situation really annoys me. Obsessed with one topic and ignore others?

[bullox]

Pure comedy in this thread - thanks Tuesdays. On a Tuesday no less.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

You should be embarrassingly mistaken -- Socrates was Greek. This however, is probably not your silliest post in this thread.

Yes, indeed. I was thinking of that Tao guy. I'll stick with the Brewers here instead of weird philosophy that Toby tries to use all the time.

When Branyan is back in the lineup within the next few games you can all breathe again and we can all say that putting Counsell in the lineup didn't kill us as bad as everyone is saying. I'm done beating the dead horse.

Pure comedy in this thread - thanks Tuesdays. On a Tuesday no less.

Anything I can do to brighten your Tuesday. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[datrain711]

Why would Tom even answer the question when he literally knew nothing about the situation? That's because he doesn't care that Branyan is sitting , in favor of Counsell. Contrast that with how Tom seems to hound Yost about Weeks on a daily basis and the situation really annoys me. Obsessed with one topic and ignore others?

 

I don't know why, but I always listen to Tom and Homer talk Brewers on my drive home from work. Every day he seems to take a shot at Weeks. And he also remembers to rip Yost anytime the Crew isn't playing all that well. Why does he have the name "the prince of darkness?"

[And That]

I was thinking of that Tao guy. I'll stick with the Brewers here instead of weird philosophy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/graphics/2008/04/16/living-in-spain-driving2.jpg

 

 

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance..." - MLK, Jr.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:IBMTTT2cUZJeUM:http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/sports/brew/img/jun04/craig620.jpg

[brewjihad]

Hooray! Counsell at third again tonight for the opener of the Padres series.

 

I wonder if he could even hit a ball out of Petco during batting practice.

[rluzinski]

If Counsell can still get regular playing time while stinking up the joint, what's going to happen when he eventually has a couple of back to back mutli-hit games? Everyday starter and leadoff hitter?

 

Yost has no idea how to judge talent and Melvin apparently doesn't care. That has to give you a warm, fuzzy feeling while in the middle of a playoff race.

[ninja33]

Is Counsell playing everyday? You must be watching a different team than I am. From what I've seen he's just platooning for the time being.

He's started 9 of the past 12 games...obviously thats not "every day", but the crew's starting shortstop has only played in 10 of those 12 games...thats pretty close to an every day player if you ask me. And he's 6 for 33 (with a whopping 1 run scored, and now 2 RBIs on that smash yesterday). I agree, its great that the brewers have been able to win games in spite of him, but theyve also had the luxury of playing offensively inept teams like washington (granted, the padres arent much better), and i fear the tight game where the opposition puts up some runs and i notice that craig counsell and his .167 average with RISP is 0 for 4 with 4 left on base.

as far as the fear of counsell batting leadoff if he strings a few good games together, he does have an .884 OPS when batting #1. I seem to remember on a few occasions being upset he was batting there and he would come out with a good game and prove me wrong. unfortunately he hasnt done that in the 6 hole.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Counsell only has to get about one hit per week to play against nearly every righthanded pitcher. Also got to love that he hits 6th every night. Once again yost is showing he is clueless and that this team will have to win despite his ineptness.

[thebruce44]

Yes, indeed. I was thinking of that Tao guy. I'll stick with the Brewers here instead of weird philosophy that Toby tries to use all the time.

 

I don't want to pile on (and you seem to have a good sense of humor about the whole thing Tuesdays) but it makes it harder for me to seriously consider your argument when you admit to not being at all familiar with basic argumentative skills and shrug it off.

 

The fact of the matter is that at this stage of his career, Counsell should be nothing more to this team then an option to spell some of the middle infielders to keep them fresh for the stretch run. The statistics with regards to offense and defense in the short term, as well as the long (3 year average) term, have been presented and prove this point decisively. Not only have we shown on this message board that Counsell getting repeated starts at 3rd is a bad idea, but Counsell himself seems to know this.

 

We are still winning games, so some might say we are just nitpicking here. We are also playing a very easy stretch of schedule and are winning in spite of Yost's tinkering. If he is planning to go back to proper management and actually play his best players when we play the Cubs and Cardinals, I still will not be able to let this go, as it is causing our important players to loose any rhythm or momentum they may have had.

 

Right now it is nothing short of mind bogglingly stupid on Yost's part and the fact that we are winning games should not cause people to look the other way.