The Dugout Fight (video on Brewers.com)

[Marc Newfield of Dreams]

Props to:

Ray Durham for a textbook form tackle.

JJ Hardy for going off. Never seen that before.

Ryan Braun for his comments after the game. Fair play, sir.

 

Anti-Props to:

Prince Fielder. Dude's gonna have a stroke on the field if he doesn't calm down.

Manny Parra for giving up 6 runs.

Ned Yost for being a horses rear end again after the game. He gave a completely legitimate answer, and could have left it at that. But no he has to get on the media again. NED! HE HAS TO ASK THE QUESTION, IT'S HIS JOB!

[crewcrazy]

While I don't like Yost at all, I kinda agree with him; it's nobody's business. You can ask, but if you seriously expect an answer you're pretty naive.

I don't think any of the reporters asking him what happened are naive -- they're just doing their jobs. Since they hang around Ned (and every other manager in the majors) nearly every day, they probably know better than anyone that they're not going to get a very straight answer, but they wouldn't be doing their jobs as journalists if they didn't at least ask. If you get lucky, the manager spills the beans, but you'll most likely have to find someone willing to speak anonymously, like it looks like TH did ("someone who overheard" etc.).

[jjfanec]

I guess I dont understand the idea that this happens all the time. Now this is not as big of a deal as some may make it but it is still not a normal everyday thing. How many fights have happened in the dugout this year? I know stuff happens behind closed doors, but that is totally different from out in the open. When stuff happens in the dugout like that it is a lack of maturity in my mind, not an everyday expression of emotion. I played on some really successful sports team and have never seen another player get in a physical altercation at a game. In practice yes, but not in a game.

[southpaw121505]

I don't see this as a big deal at all it is nothing really. It was just a push if Prince actually threw a punch then I would be more concerned about the situation.

It wasn't just a shove and he walked away. He had to be physically held back by like 5 people even after Parra was just sitting there. That's way overboard and pretty pathetic to see an adult acting like that. The team is going to say the right thing, but just look at Hardy and Braun holding him back, they are clearly pissed at him. I've been on teams through college too and things will happen, especially heated arguments. But, when it takes 5 guys to hold a guy back DURING a game, there's a serious issue with the dude.

[razzzorsharp]

When JJ was screaming at Prince it looked a little like Prince attempted to come after him to. It could easily be Prince just trying to get up but who knows.

[Tbadder]

While I don't like Yost at all, I kinda agree with him; it's nobody's business. You can ask, but if you seriously expect an answer you're pretty naive.

I don't think any of the reporters asking him what happened are naive -- they're just doing their jobs. Since they hang around Ned (and every other manager in the majors) nearly every day, they probably know better than anyone that they're not going to get a very straight answer, but they wouldn't be doing their jobs as journalists if they didn't at least ask. If you get lucky, the manager spills the beans, but you'll most likely have to find someone willing to speak anonymously, like it looks like TH did ("someone who overheard" etc.).

 

I totally understand they are doing their jobs. But their jobs are stupid in this case. Does even one of them really think someone is going to articulate exactly what happened and why and wherefore? Can anyone imagine getting a blow by description. I can see it now. "...and, and then Hardy got up in Prince's grill and calls him a big stupid face chumbawamba." Two people are fighting in public. Are you really gonna go ask them to explain themselves in public? Sometimes I just don't get the media. Okay it's a requirement to ask--I get it, but it still doesn't make it anything less than ridiculous.

[Fatter than Joey]

Dave Bush got squished.

[Fatter than Joey]

Does even one of them really think someone is going to articulate exactly what happened and why and wherefore?

 

The other way to look at this, is that the reporter gives Ned the ability and opportunity to clear the air.

[TheCrew07]

Here comes more Prince hate, which I would say is premature at this point. We don't know what happened, though Prince shouldn't have reacted that way.

He earned it this time... I'd find it impossible to justify his actions.

 

I've been around teams my entire life and yes there's always a fight or shoving match at some point during a football season, basketball season, or baseball season. Tempers flare and guys are competitive and someone will take it too far, it's only a matter of time, it doesn't matter what sport, it's inevitable, at least at the High School level. I have no doubt that these things happen a couple of times a year in the MLB clubhouse where no one would see as well, it's just the nature of the beast.

 

Prince crossed the line and to me it's that simple. This has nothing to do with his weight or defensive issues, he snapped in the dugout during a MLB game, it's totally unacceptable. I hate to go to the class card again because I probably overvalue it, or value it more than others, but it was classless to do something like that during the middle of a game. During the game it's us against them, nothing else matters except getting that W... typically these things come up after the game when emotions are still high and players have an axe to grind.

 

Yes it matters more that it happened in the middle of the game and I'm having hard time trying put my thoughts into words, but that's the way I feel.

[joshjs]

Manny didn't look surprised at Prince's behavior.

 

BTW, my favorite quote of this thread: "I see Prince is a chicken. Waits until Branyan is not in the dugout to shove a teammate."

[GAME05]

i'm not ready to jump on Fielder yet. i would just assume Parra said something about his defense. Fielder hears about working on it all the time in practice, hears it in the stands and reads about it in the paper. of all the people the man needs to support him it's his teammates, and if Parra did say something about it, maybe pushing him is a legitimate reaction. (ok, having to be restrained is a bit much, though).

 

no doubt that sort of thing had to be building up. No doubt Fielder seems himself as the offensive leader of the team, and we've been losing a lot, so the pressure and the comments had to be building up a lot.

 

i'd probably react the same way if that's what happened. would you be more impressed by him if he said "yeah, Manny, I stink" and then sulked?

[TooLiveBrew]

That's so absolutist that it misses the point a bit imo. I think we can all agree that there's a middle ground between 'sulking' and 'striking'

[southpaw121505]

Agreed. I don't even care if they get in a shouting match, I'd prefer they wait until after the game but I can at least understand it. Shoving him where he could seriously get hurt is way overboard. Yell and disagree all you want, you don't do something that can hurt your teammate and your team.

[LouisEly]

Is there anyone that doesn't agree that Prince Fielder should recieve some kind of reprimand including a minimum of 1 game suspension?

 

Yes - me. Very similar to the fight involving Steve Smith earlier this week. Suspending Smith hurts the team more than it hurts him, just as suspending Prince hurts the team more than it hurts Fielder. The Brewers can't, and shouldn't, be without Prince. If a teammate provokes or starts a fight with a teammate, hit them in the wallet. That will teach them a lesson a lot quicker than sitting them, and it won't hurt the team (and sitting that person only reminds everyone of what happened). Not playing them hurts the team. Besides, if you stick Fielder in the wallet steep enough, he might need the money enough to sign sign that contract extension.

 

The part that bothers me is how seriously Manny's pitching well-being was put into jeopardy in a selfish & irresponsible show of violence. That shove to the bench was out of nowhere as far as Manny looked to know, and it just as easily could have ended with an ankle or leg injury to boot.

 

Exactly what I was thinking when I came to this thread. Not just his physical well-being, but his psychological well-being also.

 

Also, ditto on being proud of how JJ, Ray-Ray, and Braun handled themselves. Especially Braun - being the first to go up to Manny and pat him on the shoulder and tell him it's OK, and for his comments after the game. The more I see of Braun, the more I like him. He is exactly what this organization needs, in many ways.

[ESPNOwen]

Relax, it's just a shoving match. Hell, I just got into a shoving match with myself here in GB. I seriously had it coming and better watch my mouth or there will be a beat down.

[SquirrelMaster]

I think Parra overreacted when he threw his coat at the bench, and I'm guessing he made a comment about that defensive play at the same time. I also think Fielder overreacted obviously. Parra MUST'VE said something to him, because right after they settle Fielder down, he is talking to Braun I believe and kind of points with his thumb towards the field. Maybe referring to that play that Parra said something negatively about? It's a shame but hopefully this can light a fire under their butts!

[ESPNOwen]

This fight has embarrased the entire state and will be the beginning of the end. This team will never win another game and kittens will die.

[ozzybourne]

Neddy says--you know, the guys are out there battling ...

 

 

Seriously now--this is how players get labeled. Is Prince a hot head? Is he more worried about himself than his team/teammates?

 

The news of this from the team the next couple of days, or Prince himself, will go along way to softening the impressions of Prince. Or turning him into a Sheffield type.

 

 

(combined consecutive posts --1992)

[DHarris34Phan]

Name other teams where this "happens all the time".

 

It doesn't happen the way it has for the Brewers this season and last with the Estrada fight.

 

I'm not placing blame, but it seems that for the past couple of seasons the clubhouse has been hostile.

[Mr QL]

I'd call it a little more than a "shoving match". Prince blindsided Parra then jumped on top of him and had to restrained by quarter of the team. What is he going to do if he's not restrained? It's fine if there was a face to face scuffle involving to the two but Prince assaulted Manny out of the blue for what appears to be very little. Part of a bad pattern with Prince, he really needs to straighten out his act. That's the type of reaction Ron Artest had at the Palace.

[sweepscc]

Prince didn't stay too long with the humble "ah shucks" routine he had going when he came up. There's been warning signs for awhile now regarding Prince's behavior. We all look aside when he produces, that's our fickleness but hopefully his behavior gets better as he matures as a person. Except I have a gut feeling that won't be until well after he's left Milwaukee.

[logan82]

I think it is obvious that Manny was going back to the clubhouse to eat the last jelly filled donut and Fielder was upset. That's when he motioned towards the field and said "I called dibs out there." You would have to agree that there are fewer donuts to go around now that Sabathia is on the team.

[ILuvDaBush]

If Prince indeed did get hit by the coat, then everyone here would need to re-evaluate the ramifications of such an act by Manny. He could have hit Prince in the eye, knocking him indefinitely, which would seem to be as random to happen as Manny tearing an ACL or dislocating his shoulder. Honestly, the only thing I take away from the video is that Manny wanted no part of the bulldog coonfronting him. Prince is the alpha dog in that locker room, and Manny was talking back to him. He may not be the leader of the team, but he's the one who has his teammates' backs if and when they get plunked (cough..RICKIE...cough). Furthermore, he's been getting plunked a lot lately, which tends to get the vinegar bubbling in the belly, especially when it is combined with a losing streak. It seemed like he was about to begin carrying us, and I think he began to get a bit emotional throughout the game. And when he perceived Manny of challenging him, and swinging at him with a coat, which is tantamount to spitting, he flew off the rails a bit. It may not be the popular thing to do, or even the right thing to do, but it was done and now, it's over. I'm probably the only one here who was disappointed by how Manny just sat down, not even attempting to stand his ground.

As Charles Woodson said during the scrimmage last night multiple times during small skirmishes on the field, "It's good to have a little 'dog' in you." Players fight all the time in an emotional job like "athlete," and I was disappointed that the small southpaw didn't at least try to defend himself. He had to have known Prince was heated and was following him. I keep coming back to the idea that if he "inadvertently" hits Prince in the eye with his coat, he could have put him on the DL just as easily as a shove or two from Prince. Prince never balled a fist, and it looked like the only reason the stout Prince's hands got near Manny's face was because his hands slid up. There was no malicious intent, just a "Feat of Strength" if you will, after the ceremonial "Airing of the Grievences" was rebuffed.

[True CryM]

I really like Braun's comments about breaking the monotony. If Prince wanted to, he could have swung at Manny. Shoving is frustration, not an act of animosity (i.e. Barret v. Zambrano). Maybe this will put Prince's head in the right place.

 

I can picture Simba raising his cap just enough to see what all the commotion is about, and after a small chuckle, goes back to flipping his ball in the air.

[trwi7]

Cincinnati - So, manager Ned Yost says the fight earlier tonight between Prince Fielder and Manny Parra in the dugout was no big deal. What do you think?

If what I heard was correct, Parra was getting ready to go to the dugout after being removed from the game and Fielder took exception to that, with the Brewers batting in the top of the seventh and trying to cut into the 6-1 that Parra dug for the team.

I heard that Prince yelled at Parra, "We stayed out there and watched your (bleep). You can stay out here and watch our (bleep)."

I can totally believe Prince said something like that. He was in an agitated mood about the team's sputtering offense and wasn't pleased that Parra caved in for six runs in the middle inning (of course, Fielder could have helped by not letting Joey Votto's two-run single get by him).

Anyway, Parra scooped up his glove and jacket off the bench and it might have come close to swiping Fielder in the face. He took exception to it and went after Parra, shoving him hard twice before teammates restrained him. It was an ugly scene that players basically attributed to "boys will be boys" afterward.

So, what do you think manager Ned Yost should do about this? Should Fielder be benched Tuesday night to show that there will be discipline on the team. Or should Fielder be in the lineup because it was "no big deal," like Yost claimed?

I've got to believe Fielder was fined and told to apologize to teammates in the clubhouse afterward. We were kept out a while after the game so something was going on in the clubhouse.

Tell me what you folks think about all of this.

http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2008/08/05/is-it-a-big-deal.aspx