The Dugout Fight (video on Brewers.com)

[holybannana]

I really think Manny was having a bad attitude about it all. He was sulking and thinking about himself by not supporting the team. And Fielder, the leader and alpha male of the team, had issue with it and he let Manny know real good that he wasn't acting like a supportive teammate. Manny will likely never act out of line again and will support his teammates.

 

It's a sports team and you can't draw a parallel between what happens on the bench and what happens in your office. It's not even close to being the same environment. Ultra competitive, testosterone driven (read: ego and machismo) dudes are in a tight group for a long time trying to accomplish the same goal. These things happen. Who hasn't been on a real competitive team and not seen things like this? This is sports, not cooperate America. This kinda thing happens a lot in sports. There isn't a single NFL or NBA training camp that doesn't have a fist fight.

 

A better comparison is the Military. Anyone here been enlisted? I haven't but I have friends that are/were and I've heard many stories of fights because guys are out of line or whatever.

 

I don't know if everyone understands the language and in our fluffy, soft and watered down media sensationalized world, I think a lot of people have lost touch with some of the things that happen in these kinds of pressure filled environments.

 

Now, I'm not saying that if you disagree with me that you are this kind of person or even that this kind of person is wrong. But please admit that this is more or less normal in these kinds of places. This isn't a strange, abnormal or disturbing occurrence. Admit this happens all the time and acting like this is some kind of big deal is taking the media bait. That this happens at every level of competitive sports.

[rluzinski]

You know, if Fielder had maybe given Parra a quick shove or clenched him, I might be able to go with you. But what he did was just pure anger and Parra could easily have gotten hurt. Not cool.

[holybannana]

You know, if Fielder had maybe given Parra a quick shove or clenched him, I might be able to go with you. But what he did was just pure anger and Parra could easily have gotten hurt. Not cool.

"Easily" gotten hurt? Unlikely. "Could have" gotten hurt? Yes. That's a critical difference and important. You can't frame this that way. Perhaps it was "pure anger" (I'm not sure if that's even defined or that we're talking about the same thing when using abstractions such as that) but we can't be sure. I mean, wouldn't "pure anger" more likely have been a clenched fist to the jaw? That sounds far more uncontrollable and "pure" to me.

 

I think it was a guy pushing another guy down and then intimidating him. He never intended to hurt anyone from the looks of it because he *would* have hurt him if he intended for that. And although an injury could have bee incidental, I don't think it was likely or easily attainable. He shoved the guy and he went into the seat. He didn't throw him into a wall, punch him or throw him down.

In fact, the evidence suggests this was a controllable act and he worked within probable parameters of not hurting the guy. Guys wrestle in the clubhouse and goof off all the time. Some even use salad tongs. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

[Roscoe Chill]

Yeah, Prince was just goofing off. He didn't punch him, he just pushed him down, twice, once in the face. No big deal, he was just trying to intimidate him, being the alpha male and all. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/eyes.gif

[yount19.u]

I think Prince is fine, and most of the team is fine. I worry that Manny Parra isn't fine though.

I am worried about the same thing. Manny is young and nearly in rookie status so something like this could really fracture his confidence. Look at how he handled being hit hard in the game after throwing a no-hitter. He went from complete control to zero in about one batter. What I hope happens, or has already happened, is that Prince and Ned talk with Manny and assure him that things are over and done with and there should be no hard feelings. This is something that could stick in his head and linger for a while if the team is not careful with him. His next start will be the test.

[yount19.u]

I just read Buster Olney's blog on ESPN and it looks as if Prince did have a private conversation with Manny after yesterdays game, so that's good. Olney also points out the clubhouse atmosphere was lighthearted as they laughed at the USA Today picture of Bush being crushed during the brawl.

[tigerbrew]

From Hauricout's blog: Fielder: "I could have handled it better"

 

Cincinnati - We just talked with Prince Fielder about his dugout altercation last night with teammate Manny Parra and he apologized "for the way it went down."

"It's something that happened. I've been playing with Manny since rookie ball. It's not like we hate each other. At least, I don't. I apologize for the way it went down. I definitely could have handled it better. But I don't apologize for the passion and intensity I have for the game.

"That's just something that happened in the moment," said Fielder. "I can't take it back. I could have handled it better. But I don't apologize for the full meaning behind it and the fire."

Physically attacking your team-mate = having passion, intensity and fire for the game of baseball? Prince has very strange logic. I suspect Prince is trying to make excuse of his violent action with the "passion, intensity and fire for the game" spin.

 

I think Prince should've apologise to Parra right away for the shoving and for acting like a raving lunatic. Apologising for "the way it went down" is not an apology. You don't see Parra shoving Prince for the errors he had commited in games he pitch.

 

Asked if he thought Fielder had anger issues, Yost said, "These are competitive issues. He competes so hard. People say, 'How can you do that?' But the thing that our fans, more than anything else, when I first got here, what they wanted was a competitive team. Now, when they've got guys that compete, they get upset when things like that happen.

How is physically abusing your team-mate = competiting hard? Apparently Yost shares the same strange logic as Prince and condones and excusing Prince's violent actions. Amazingly, Yost even rebukes fans for not condoning Prince's violent actions.

 

I am a peaceful Brewers fan, I am not a violent European football hooligan. I want to see the Brewers beat opposing teams on the field of play, I don't want to see Brewers players physically beating each other up.

Am I wrong to think that you can compete hard and win without being violent? Many champions have won without resorting to violence.

[TooLiveBrew]

I think Prince is fine, and most of the team is fine. I worry that Manny Parra isn't fine though.

 

Thirded. After Fielder's homer last night, Manny was one of the first Brewers waiting for a fist-bump with Prince. Apparently this was only shown on the Cincy feed (which I had), but after they gave the pound, Fielder slapped/'patted' Parra on the face in a 'friendly' manner. Problem is, it looked pretty demeaning, & they certainly weren't smiling with each other afterwards. If it had been left at the 'pound', there wouldn't have been anything out of place. As dorky as this is, I tried smacking my own cheek about as hard as Fielder appeared to 'pat' Manny, and I can tell you that even if one of my closest friends did that to me, I'd tell him not to do that again.

 

I will fully admit this could be me making too much of it, or even looking for something that wasn't there. However, the other poster in the chat last night watching the Cincy feed took the same meaning from what Fielder did... that Prince basically showed Manny up again. So, take that for what it's worth, but I'm concerned with Prince's egotistical behavior & the impact it *might* have on Parra.

[Glennron]

On PTI, they were doing the "Percentages" game or whatever it's called. One of the topics was "What are the chances the dugout scuffle turns the Brewers season around?" Kornheiser said 0%, and J.A. Adande said 100%. His reasoning was "They've won two in a row since then, and they hadn't done that since the Cubs swept them out of town!" Except for the first two games after that series, he'd be correct.

[sbrylski]

Using 100% and 0% in their "percentages" game completely defeats the purpose of the game.

[razzzorsharp]

Stat boy didn't catch the error even.

[trwi7]

Was listening to the postgame show on WSSP this afternoon and Sparky said that when they do their usual high fives after the game Parra and Prince skipped past eachother without giving fives and then continued giving fives after they were past eachother.

[RU Rah Rah]

I think playing three last-place teams in succession might also have something to do with the season turning around.

[Invader3K]

Was listening to the postgame show on WSSP this afternoon and Sparky said that when they do their usual high fives after the game Parra and Prince skipped past eachother without giving fives and then continued giving fives after they were past eachother.

Oh well. Not every two guys on the team have to be best friends with each other.

 

[afeter]

did the jacket hit him or not? If the jacket actually hit him in the face the whole scope of the schuffle changes. It would go a long way towards explaining princes violent actions.

[tigerbrew]

did the jacket hit him or not? If the jacket actually hit him in the face the whole scope of the schuffle changes. It would go a long way towards explaining princes violent actions.

You can watch the whole thing here , I don't see the jacket hitting Prince at all.

From what I saw, Prince was doing the talking and Parra wasn't happy with what he's hearing so he snatched up his jacket to leave. Prince took offence with the way Parra picked up his jacket and exploded violently at him. Prince is behaving like a bully and a raving lunatic, it was a personal attack that has nothing to do with his so called "passion, intensity and fire for the game".

[TooLiveBrew]

Was listening to the postgame show on WSSP this afternoon and Sparky said that when they do their usual high fives after the game Parra and Prince skipped past eachother without giving fives and then continued giving fives after they were past eachother.

 

Given the smack to Manny's face from Prince, that doesn't surprise me one bit. As crazy as it sounds, I actually think there may be a shred of merit to Cecil's claims that Prince needs to grow up.

[holybannana]

Parra was being a jerk and Prince put him in his place. End of story. If Prince's intent was to hurt him he would have.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I went back and looked at it...it was like they went up to high five and stopped right before contact, then just kept moving through the line. Strange...if it wasn't for Monday you never would have noticed, it was very slight. I didn't see the face smack the night before. Prince has been fairly jovial with the other guys the last couple days, can't really tell with Manny. It does make me wonder if this could linger with Manny or if there were some issues with him before this. I hope not...Manny will be critical down the stretch.

[bucks2281]

Parra was being a jerk and Prince put him in his place. End of story

 

What gives Prince Fielder the right to put anybody in his place?

[jhart05]

How exactly was Parra being a "jerk"?

[tigerbrew]

Parra was being a jerk and Prince put him in his place. End of story. If Prince's intent was to hurt him he would have.

The reason Prince didn't get to hurt Parra was because he was restrainted immediately by other team-mates before he could do so. What Prince did to Parra was absolutely wrong, unwarranted and unacceptable.

How is Parra a jerk? For getting his jacket and looking Prince in the eye when Prince was giving him a boatload of verbal abuse? I did not see Parra say a word at Prince or retaliate during the whole altercation, it was very one-sided and it was all coming from Prince. I find that Prince is the one that is being a jerk and Prince is the one that needs to be put in his place, he is not the manager of team.

[holybannana]

To answer a few questions on my opinions:

 

"What gives Prince Fielder the right to put anybody in his place?"

Prince is the leader of the team. The players acknowledge this. Just like BA Barracus was the leader of the A-Team. A player was acting out of line and Prince fixed it.

 

"How exactly was Parra being a "jerk"?"

Parra was acting against a team custom and being a baby about it. He had a couple bad innings and was pouting and was thinking of himself, not the team. He was thinking of himself only.

 

"The reason Prince didn't get to hurt Parra was because he was restrainted immediately by other team-mates before he could do so. What Prince did to Parra was absolutely wrong, unwarranted and unacceptable."

Prince would have knocked him out with a single punch if he had intended to, lets be honest here. The team jumping in was more or less customary among scuffles, even ones where real harm wasn't intended. Certainly there could have been other avenues to explore, but this is a sports team and things like this happen suddenly.

 

Guys, Fielder isn't a maniac, he isn't filled with uncontrollable rage and he doesn't have anger issues. Stop making him out to be some bad guy because he isn't. He had a problem with a teammate who wasn't acting like a team player. It had been a frustrating few weeks and thing boiled over a bit. It wasn't that big of a deal. Ask his wife and kid if he has issues. You need to separate an athlete competing from the person outside the arena. It's a different world.

 

Look, every player on that team has said it isn't anything and they were even joking about it the next day. Prince and Manny had a talk after todays game and Prince publicly apologized for how he acted. These things happen a lot. Can we please stop acting like Manny is some innocent little lamb that was slaughtered by Prince the Wolf? He was being a punk and got treated like one. I love Parra too. The reason he sat there afterwards is because he knew he was wrong also.

 

I guess I'm not enraged or shocked by this kind of thing because I've been on ultra competitive sports teams and have seen things like this and been a part of things like this, and worse. And you know what? There wasn't a problem. Things sort themselves out. Your feeling aren't hurt. Your ability to play isn't ruined. You go on and learn from it and it actually brings teams together. You fight because you care.

 

I'm done with this topic though. I hate drama and that's all discussing this is. It's going to be a constant back and fourth of "he's a monster" and "Parra needed a lesson". We're both right and wrong. It doesn't make sense to argue it. I respect your opinions on the matter and just feel differently. From my experiences and data I've gathered from players and watching it myself, this is so unimportant and only being talked about because the media sells more ads by making a big deal out of nothing. I can see why someone feels what he did was wrong. I just disagree. Context is so important here.

[TooLiveBrew]

Parra was acting against a team custom and being a baby about it. He had a couple bad innings and was pouting and was thinking of himself, not the team. He was thinking of himself only.

 

Based on what? Parra slammed his jacket on the bench, and appeared headed towards it. You're literally the only person perpetuating the myth that Parra was sulking off to the dugout.

[bucks2281]

Prince is the leader of the team. The players acknowledge this. Just like BA Barracus was the leader of the A-Team. A player was acting out of line and Prince fixed it.

 

I really have a problem with the Brewers clubhouse if this is the case. Sure, Prince may be a leader, but that doesn't give him the right to issue punishment or a physical beating to anybody. I'm sure other players on the Brewers would agree with this sentiment. But, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.