The Dugout Fight (video on Brewers.com)

[homer]

I really don't understand why people care about what Yost has to say or doesn't have to say about the whole incident. He's never been very good with his words anyway and for people to disect each and every thing he says is pointless. Yeah it'd be interesting to know what happened but do we really need to hear Ned explain it? Or even be nice about it? Just resolve it internally and go win tomorrow.

[brewers4eric]

Personally, I'm not going to make any judgements on the shove until I see how the team reacts in the coming weeks. If it serves as a wakeup call and they go on a roll and make the playoffs, I'll be in favor of signing Milton Bradley and Jeff Kent in the offseason.

[dlk9s]

Like it or hate it, Yost is a player's manager, and will NEVER throw a player under the bus. It was the same thing with Bobby Cox. I do think that Yost was overly snarky to McCalvy, but saying "We handle it in-house" is the right move, in my opinion.

Nice avatar, you nerd.

 

 

And yes, I understand that knowing where that avatar is from makes me a little bit of a nerd, too.

 

[nate82]

If a player fouls out of a basketball game he still stays on the bench and supports the team even though he can't play again. In football even non active players stand on the sidelines with the team for the entire game.

Not true at all with your basketball thing. When you receive 2 technical fouls you have to leave the game or a severe flagrant foul you have to leave the game. Also in football if you hit the ref or start a fight you have to leave the game also some non active players are not allowed on the sidelines.

 

[MadisonBrewerBlue]

sports teams in wisconsin sure have been giving the country lots of negative front page news of late. this would be a great young and the restless soap opera episode.

[fondybrewfan]

To me it isn't so much that Yost never talks truthfully or at all, it is just that he comes across as being extremely arrogant. Like the sports writers have absolutely no clue what they are talking about. Ned you aren't as smart as you think you are. Its the sports writers job to ask those questions just like it is your job to take Suppan out of the game before he gives up 8 runs in an inning. For being on the job for 6 years already he really hasn't learned how to deal with the media or how to handle the pressure of being in a pennant race. Last year he bombed in the race and this year isn't exactly looking promising. Things can change quickly though.

 

Ill echo the statements about Fielder. What in the heck was he thinking. Does he remember how many times the pitching has bailed out our sorry (at times) offense. I really think, the next time the Brewers lose 1-0, Seth McClung should say something to Fielder. I don't really think that, the outcome would probably be hilarious though. I really hope Fielder goes into some anger management counselling. I am sure Jack Nicholson could help, or perhaps Dr. Phil. As the years have gone on I have actually started to hate Cecil less because he may have been right in saying that Prince really needs to grow up. You would hate his anger to prevent him from fulfilling all his goals in MLB. You don't want to see him deck an umpire or another player and get tossed from the league or something like that.

[Brian the Automator]

Like it or hate it, Yost is a player's manager, and will NEVER throw a player under the bus. It was the same thing with Bobby Cox. I do think that Yost was overly snarky to McCalvy, but saying "We handle it in-house" is the right move, in my opinion.

Nice avatar, you nerd.

 

 

And yes, I understand that knowing where that avatar is from makes me a little bit of a nerd, too.

 

If taking a screenshot of an amateur-captured movie teaser that was displayed at ComicCon and leaked to YouTube makes me a nerd, then yes, I'm a nerd.

 

[DatHoser]

Somewhere, Richard Justice is laughing maniacally.

 

Enough has been said about the players - good things as well as the bad. Ned's comments still strike me as coming from somebody under major stress; they're were mind-numbingly bizarre and short-sighted. First of all, if our neighbors had an altercation where somebody could get hurt, we'd get involved. In the same way, this team's playoff chances could get hurt. Admittedly, things will probably get ironed out and be ok, but if that's the case then just say something to that effect. Attacking the reporter smacks of someone who is losing control of the clubhouse. Fortunately we've got players who are composed beyond their years in their reactions to all this (that and Ray Durham could be offered a DB contract with the Pack).

 

Will this ultimately affect the team in one way or another? I don't think so. This is just a scratch on a thoroughbred that already had the equine equivalent of shin splints.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

sports teams in wisconsin sure have been giving the country lots of negative front page news of late. this would be a great young and the restless soap opera episode.

 

No more Young and the Restless...we started playing horribly after that.

[markedman5]

"Not true at all with your basketball thing. When you receive 2 technical fouls you have to leave the game or a severe flagrant foul you have to leave the game. Also in football if you hit the ref or start a fight you have to leave . "

 

 

Ah...thats because in those cases the refs MAKE them leave.

 

Obviously if a player is kicked out of a game he has to leave but thats not the issue here. We are talking about Pitchers being allowed to leave because they can't play anymore not because they have been kicked out by the refs.

[Bruce Ciskie]

If Ned had half a brain in his head, the McCalvy question would never have been necessary.

 

The first thing out of his mouth when he sat down should have been:

I know you all are aware of the dugout incident involving Prince and Manny during the seventh inning. We will handle it internally, but we see it as nothing more than a family matter, and we will not address it with the media tonight. Please respect that statement, and I'll be happy to answer any questions you have about tonight's game.

Instead, he tries to act as if it didn't happen at all. Because we all know the media forgets about that kind of stuff.

[Bruce Ciskie]

Obviously if a player is kicked out of a game he has to leave but thats not the issue here. We are talking about Pitchers being allowed to leave because they can't play anymore not because they have been kicked out by the refs.

 

Sure, but who says Manny was leaving for good?

 

Hockey players will sometimes walk back off the bench when it's not their shift. I've seen goalies that get pulled from games go back there to throw a quick tantrum before taking a spot on the bench.

 

We'll never know what Manny's intentions were, because Prince had to act like a six-year-old whose brother just stole his ice cream cone.

[nate82]

Ah...thats because in those cases the refs MAKE them leave.

 

Obviously if a player is kicked out of a game he has to leave but thats not the issue here. We are talking about Pitchers being allowed to leave because they can't play anymore not because they have been kicked out by the refs.

The players who foul out are allowed to leave the game and head to the locker room if they so choose. Most pitchers don't leave when they are done some do but not all stay or leave. It is an option for them to leave your comparison is flawed. A lot of players in the NFL if they are taken out and the game is in hand will head towards the locker room. It is the same thing.

 

[monty57]

The thing that struck me while watching the video is how Prince just couldn't control himself. Seeing TH's most recent quote, Prince just got done yelling at Manny. We don't know if Manny said anything back. Then they walk together halfway across the dugout. Was Prince waiting for Manny to say something back? You can see the whole time they are walking, Manny doesn't open his mouth. Manny lets out his frustration by doing something with his jacket. I don't know what his intentions were, but I am POSITIVE they were not to hit Price with it. But Prince was right there, probably waiting for something to set him off.

The way I see it is that Prince told Manny that he needed to stay out and watch the rest of the game. Manny got up and began walking to the locker room. Prince walked beside him waiting for him to sit down, and when it was obvious that he wasn't going to, Prince pushed him to the bench. When he didn't sit after the first push, he pushed again, a little harder and leaned into it to make sure he sat down. I don't condone this, but I think Prince's thought process was "if he isn't going to do what I say on his own, I'll make sure he does it."

It was a dumb thing to do, but it doesn't seem to be as viscious an assault as some are making it out to be, and I don't think there was much chance of anyone getting hurt. That said, it was good to see the reaction of the other players, both in the dugout and in the newpaper quotes. I agree that Braun is taking over as the leader of this team, and he is exactly what this team needs... well, that and someone who can consistantly get on base at the top of the order.

As far as Ned, I can't understand how he could sit there and do nothing while everyone else in the dugout was involved. Adding this to his abuse / misuse of pitchers has moved me from the "who cares if he stays or goes" into the "he can't get out of town quickly enough" crowd.

All I know is that I've moved my Prince Fielder bobblehead away from my other Brewers bobbleheads so they don't get broken. - tosabrewfan

I just had to quote that because that's funny

[MJLiverock]

At first glance when I saw the video I was very upset at Prince's actions but after reading some more of the story here and getting some more info my feelings have changed on it but think Ned could have handled the situation with the press much better.

 

One scenario I have in my head is that it played out like this, Parra was kinda mad and upset with himself and started heading to the locker room and Prince said,"Hey you should stay out here and watch the game with the team." A few more words may have been said by both but Manny grudgingly complies but starts whipping his towel or jacket around and inadvertantly whips Fielder in the head as he walks away. Fielder, already frustrated and mad about losing and whater Manny and he just had words about, loses it because he thinks Manny whipped him in the head on purpose with the towel or whatever and turns around and shoves him. I can see where that would happen, I know if I was already frustrated or mad, think of myself as a team leader, and a guy I just called out for leaving the bench starts whining and whips me in the head as I walk I away I would probably be pretty pissed off. The second shove is probably where Fielder's bad temper really took over and he really crossed the line.

 

If the players made up after the game and Fielder said the towel whipping set him off and Manny explained it was an accident I can see where Ned would say it was no big deal and the matter was closed but he could have at least explained why. If he didn't know yet what really happened or wanted to talk to the players first he could have just said he wanted to speak with each of them rather than pull the none of your business card.

 

I guess I fall in the Manny is not without blame but Prince over reacted camp. If the players can apologize to each other and have settled whatever it was that set them off I don't think anyone needs to be benched or suspended but it would be nice to know they have made up rather than have some smoldering fued in the clubhouse. I would prefer to hear they have made up out of each of their mouths to, rather than have Ned or Doug say it is all good.

[bcf5575]

It occured to me that this whole incident could have been avoided if it wasn't considered normal or accepted behavior for pitchers to go into the clubhouse, shower and leave once they are removed from a game.

 

This is one of those baseball things that doesn't happen in other sports.

 

If a player fouls out of a basketball game he still stays on the bench and supports the team even though he can't play again. In football even non active players stand on the sidelines with the team for the entire game.

 

Prince shouldn't have pushed Parra. That is clear but for the life of me I can't understand why all players aren't required to stay in the dugout until the game is over.

Pitchers do not leave the stadium after they are done pitching - the only time I have heard of that is at the all star game. Where do you get that from??

 

What happens is the pitcher heads back to the clubhouse, puts on a dry shirt and whatever else, hits the training room to get wrapped in ice and heads back to the dugout.

 

 

[tigerbrew]

I think the USA today news article about yesterday's dugout fight is pretty interesting. Link.

 

Brewers' frustration boils over into dugout scuffle

By Paul White, USA TODAY Milwaukee Brewers manager Ned Yost doesn't like the idea of the neighbors getting nosy, but it's tough to pull the drapes over the front of a dugout. First baseman Prince Fielder started swinging at teammate - and Monday's starting pitcher -Manny Parra at the beginning of the seventh inning of the Brewers' 6-3 loss at Cincinnati. Parra, who had a no-hitter going into the fifth inning, was being replaced by a pinch-hitter after falling behind 6-1. He and Fielder were walking side-by-side in the dugout when the first baseman shoved and began swinging at Parra. "It's within the family," Yost said after the game, refusing like everyone else in the Milwaukee clubhouse to discuss details of the incident. "It's a little bit rude, when your neighbors are fighting next door, for you to go over and ask what happened. … It's nobody's business." When four teammates have to tackle a 270-pound first baseman in the front of the dugout with TV cameras rolling … well, Ned, it's like the neighbors taking their issues to the front lawn. It attracts a crowd and more than a few questions. The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel reported that Fielder apparently was upset that Parra was heading for the clubhouse rather than remaining on the bench. It's not a no-physical-harm scrap among teammates that is the issue right now for the Brewers. It's more that they've lost seven of their last nine games and are hanging onto the National League wild card spot by a half-game. They're also five games behind the NL Central leading Cubs, the team that won four games in a row at Milwaukee early in the Brewers' rough stretch. Losing to the Cubs was one thing - Milwaukee still has six September games against Chicago - but now the Brewers are in a stretch of playing 19 of 22 games against teams with losing records. It's no time to fall apart. Fielder hardly seems like the one to be frustrated. He's on an 11-for-28 streak at the plate with five home runs during an eight-game hitting streak. But there are plenty of other candidates. Shortstop J.J. Hardy, who was the team's hottest hitter as the Brewers went 26-12 from late May to early July, doesn't have a hit in his last 26 at-bats. All-Star outfielder Corey Hart is in a 4-for-20 stretch and catcher Jason Kendall is struggling more at 4-for-41. Ryan Braun, even after a homer and a double Monday, has five hits in his last 24 at-bats. Yost says the dugout fracas is the kind of thing that can spur a team. Maybe, but he got into one around this time last season with Johnny Estrada, a catcher on the team at the time. That was Aug. 2, 2007, as Milwaukee lost for the seventh time in nine games. That tailspin would extend to 6-16.

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't agree here either. Prince is not the manager of the team. I don't know what the SP's routines are after pitching, perhaps they see a trainer, soak their arm, stretch out, etc. Prince needs to worry about his ABs, and 1b, not where Parra is.

 

Yes, and the ironic thing is that Prince lost his bananas while essentially telling another player how to handle his emotions.

 

 

Manny was upset. He went from pitching a gem to getting lit up over 2 innings time. If he needs to go into the clubhouse to gain some composure for half an inning thats A-OK with me.

 

Totally agree -- an interesting indication of how differently Manny handles frustration from Prince.

 

 

All I know is that I've moved my Prince Fielder bobblehead away from my other Brewers bobbleheads so they don't get broken. - tosabrewfan

 

Yeah, this was a great laugh, tosa. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[silversurferr]

If the Tom H. newspaper account is correct, then I have little problem with Prince shoving Manny. Under the circumstances in the article, Manny was being a baby and wanted to bug out on the team, which is a very weenie move (think Barry Bonds). Prince is the team leader, albeit a hot-head, so he basically enforced the law: you are part of the team, so sit down and be part of the team. If nothing else was accomplished, nobody else will be leaving the dugout early. Also, if this was a football team, people would be saying what a good leader Prince is and how he keeps the team together. This kind of stuff really does happen all the time. In this case, I think it shows that they are upset that they are losing. Think back to the late '90s for a team that didn't.

[yount19.u]

^^^^^^

Even if Manny was being a baby and tried to leave the dugout, Prince was the true child as he threw a major temper tantrum in front of everyone. It would have been fine if he got in Manny's face and yelled a bit, but his reaction was a major overreaction. I still think this can help the team in the long run as long as they don't dwell on it and pick sides. Everyone needs to make up and start taking their aggressions out on the other team.

[Nottso]

It looked to me like Manny's jacket swung around and part of it hit Prince in the face while Prince was looking straight ahead. So they're walking along, carping at each other a bit, and Prince gets a (most likely accidental) smack in the face right out of the blue; then he goes off. I'd go off too. I'd probably feel bad about it once I found out the jacket to the face was completely unintentional, but in the heat of the moment I would have gotten all stupid. I'm not proud of it, just somewhat self aware.

[jjfanec]

"If the Tom H. newspaper account is correct, then I have little problem with Prince shoving Manny."

So, the proper response to a pitcher leaving the dugout to either clear his head or ice his arm or whatever is to repeatedly shove him into the bench and then flip out to the point you need to be restrained by four guys. I have seen players head to a locker room to clear their head way more often then I have seen a shoving match at a game. Did Prince know Parra was not coming back after a trip to the dugout.

"This kind of stuff really does happen all the time."

This is just unsubstantiated. How many dugout fights have occurred this year? Spread it out to other sports how many sideline fights have you scene. I am all for showing emotion just when it is reasonable. When emotions can't be controlled ala Carlos Zambrano or Prince then I have a big problem with it. If you are upset with losing take extra batting practice, fielding practice, or get in a little better shape you dont throw a guy into a bench.

[logan82]

It honestly looked like Parra was trying to walk away and Fielder was following him and yelling at him. You don't see Parra say anything after he leaves the bats.

[Fatter than Joey]

Prince is the team leader, albeit a hot-head, so he basically enforced the law: you are part of the team, so sit down and be part of the team. If nothing else was accomplished, nobody else will be leaving the dugout early.

 

I am sure every SP has a routine that they follow after they throw 90+ pitches -- they change unis, smoke a cig., get iced, soak their arm, etc.... Why is this a concern for Prince? Prince is not a trainer. There is no "law" requiring SPs to hang out on the bench.

 

Even if Parra wants to chuck some coolers around at lockers, better he do that in the privacy of the clubhouse than in the dugout.

 

To me, a team leader tells Manny that they are going to pick him up with their bats.

[Diskono]

It looked to me like Manny's jacket swung around and part of it hit Prince in the face while Prince was looking straight ahead. So they're walking along, carping at each other a bit, and Prince gets a (most likely accidental) smack in the face right out of the blue; then he goes off. I'd go off too. I'd probably feel bad about it once I found out the jacket to the face was completely unintentional, but in the heat of the moment I would have gotten all stupid. I'm not proud of it, just somewhat self aware.

I can't see how being flicked by the corner of a jacket is worthy of flipping out. Maybe if the jacket has spikes on it or something, but otherwise it doesn't strike me as something that would hurt a lot.