What is Wrong With Ben Sheets?

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

Over Sheets past five starts (dating to July 9th)

He's only averaging 5 2/3 IP per start....

 

28.3 IP 34 H 19 R 15 ER 9 BB 25 K 4.77 ERA 1.52 WHIP

 

Those are Suppanesqe numbers, not #s for our ace. Is he getting tired not having the "break" his been accustomed to while on

the DL. It may be "dropping his price" in the offseason but i'm seriously wondering if Ben is starting to hit the wall

[kmcasper23]

He is not used to pitching this many innings. He looks like he is tiring and I would not be surprised to see him on the DL again soon with some mysterious ailment. One thing is for sure he may be pricing himself back into Milwaukee's price range. Why would he get a huge deal elsewhere now since he has never won more than 12 games in a season and has really slowed down after his fast start.

[moofnelson]

That's funny you said "Suppanesqe" numbers, because about 3 starts ago I said Sheets was starting to pitch like Suppan. He can't put hitters away for some reason. Like Suppan, he can get ahead 0-2 and then he has to throw a half dozen pitches to get the guy out.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

The saying goes, buy low, sell high-

 

If Sheets has a subpar August, i say we offer Ben 5/75 and he'd be smart to take it. If he goes on the DL, or continues to struggle and finishes with an ERA over 4.00, nobody will offer him close to $15m/year nor more than a few years.

 

15 per is expensive, but won't break our back like 6/120 would be. Sheets might give us 22-24 good starts a year but those starts are the difference between 80 wins and 90 wins/season

[foamboy1]

I felt that during his last start his fastball was down about three mph from his usual stuff. I would say it was two or three mph down (on average) today as well. He can still bring 96, but his average seems down from where it used to be. Not trying to make a point or get into an argument....just a personal observation.

[dadofandrew]

Sheets might give us 22-24 good starts a year but those starts are the difference between 80 wins and 90 wins/season

 

Not even close. An ace that starts 32 times might be 5 wins better than an average starter, and even that is a huge stretch.

[brewmann04]

Since CC has Arrived Sheets has not been the same.I am more and more thinking our Efforts have to sign Cc and let Benny go to the higest bidder.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

Al- i know there are statistics to back up your argument, but i personally disagree. Sabathia has already won us 5 games, and given our track record since his acquisition there is a high likelyhood we might have lost most of those games. Some things in baseball are above the numbers. The best team on paper rarely wins the championship.

[trwi7]

I think you guys are just looking too much into it. Just a bad stretch imo. What's the difference between the 5 game stretch he's on now and the 5 game stretch he had from April 18th - May 15th? In that stretch he threw less than 6 innings per start with a 4.86 ERA, 30 H, 16 ER, 8 BB and 23 K.

[Marc Newfield of Dreams]

Two letters- CC.

 

He can't handle not being the guy. I know there are no numbers to prove this, but it's just a gut feeling. I don't think he's had a great start since the trade.

 

Or he's spent too much time on his hitting.

[Ennder]

In the first 5 starts of the year Sheets went 33 IP, 11 BB, 26 K, 2 HR, pretty similar numbers. The big difference is he is giving up a bunch of hits right now which is so random over a 5 start period that you are going to get all kinds of goofy stats out of it. Pitching is erratic in the first place but H, ERA and WHIP are so erratic they are borderline useless over a 5 game sample.

 

Even if you really believe he is pitching differently I'd say it is much more likely a tired arm from not pitching full seasons the last couple rather than some obscure psychological problem involving CC Sabathia being on the team.

[trwi7]

I don't think he's had a great start since the trade.

He's made 5 starts since the trade. He got lit up in one of them against Chicago, in his other 4 starts he has a combined 3.38 ERA.

[logan82]

TwinsBrewersWorldSeries wrote:

Sabathia has already won us 5 games

We have won 5 games he pitched in, but even McClung would likely have won 2-3 of those and maybe even all 5.

[sgtcluels]

He ate some indian the night before, and was having issues in the bathroom.

[hawing]

He can't handle not being the guy. I know there are no numbers to prove this, but it's just a gut feeling.

I think there's something to this. Ben has been regarded as 'the man' since he made that cameo appearance at County Stadium in September 2000...up until that first weekend of July when CC was acquired. The Brewers seem careful to say at every opportunity that they have two aces, but CC is getting most of the attention and fan-love. That's bound to require some degree of mental adjustment.

 

Maybe we should do a "Let's Go Sheeter" chant during Ben's next start at MP.

 

 

 

 

 

[logan82]

His start before we acquired CC wasn't very good either. All of May looks pretty shaky as well. He just spread out the hits a little better then and didn't walk anybody.

[yount19.u]

The splits on Sheets shows a downturn in the second half over his career with a 3.50 era for the first half and a 4.15 for the second half. August, by far, is his worst month with a 4.72 era, so I don't think C.C.'s acquisition has anything to do with it. For some reason, whether it be fatigue or lack of focus, Sheets seems to be a different pitcher in the second half of the season. Even before I looked the numbers up, I always thought Sheets was worse in the second half. He always seems to start hot and then either get injured or cool off. There's a reason he's never won more than 12 games in a season and it's showing up now. Hopefully he can reverse this trend and make the case that he is a true #1 starter.

[logan82]

yount19 wrote:

There's a reason he's never won more than 12 games in a season

Yes, there is. The Brewers have been a really bad team for most of the years he has pitched for us.

[nate82]

Both Ben and Sabathia will be pitching on 6 days of rest when their turn comes up next again to pitch. Thank goodness for that off day on Thursday. Remember that Sheets pitched on 4 days of rest after the All Star break.

[BrewCrewForever]

I'm not concerned about Ben. Yes he has not pitched like Ben Sheets but besides that Cubs game he hasn't gotten rocked. Also it's not as if he has gotten hit so bad that he has not made it through the 5th or anything. Plus maybe these average starts are taking his price down in free agency so we can resign him.

[rluzinski]

Sheets' velocity has been all over the place since CC was traded for. He was hitting 96 regularly in the Rockies and Cubs game. I have a suspicion that he was overthrowing somewhat. Today, his fastball was at around 91, so I think that might have caught up with him a bit. Hopefully, he's learned to pitch within himself and not pitch max effort until he fizzles. And no, I don't see a DL trip in his immediate future.

 

There's a reason he's never won more than 12 games in a season

 

Injuries and run support?

[owbc]

1) Hot weather in Atlanta not conducive to Sheets' fast style of pitching

2) Cubs didn't just beat him, whole team struggled

3) Never does well in St. Louis

4) Putting pressure on self due to CC.

 

I'm not worried. Very few pitchers are dominant for a whole season. The ones that are win Cy Young awards. The ones like Sheets that dominate 3/4 of the time are solid #2 starters.

[rluzinski]

The ones like Sheets that dominate 3/4 of the time are solid #2 starters.

 

I could use a lot of statistics to refute that label but it really isn't necessary. We'll let the market decide this off season if Sheets is a #2 pitcher.

[brewjihad]

I could use a lot of statistics to refute that label but it really isn't necessary.

 

I was just going to do that too. I'll just say this: The ones that dominate for the whole year win Cy Youngs and go to the Hall of Fame. The ones who dominate 3/4ths of the time are the other 28 teams' staff aces.

[JohnBriggs12]

Look, he's had one season where he posted an ERA under 3 and even that year had some tough outings as his innings piled up. He's not Bob Gibson or Tom Seaver. I don' think he's hurt but he's adjusting to a full season of work which he hasn't had in 4 years.

 

His overall numbers are still good, but he's no CC Sabathia and when the contracts are handed out, he will get 1-2 fewer years and about $5 million per year less than CC.