But My Big Brother's Wearing a Dress

[rluzinski]

No, Yost never throw his players under the bus through the media. We have no idea what he does behind closed doors. Of course, that won't stop the usual suspects from pretending that they do.

 

And I know if my A student kid came home with a F on his test. I'd beat him like a rented mule.

 

Kid:"But Dad, I tried as hard as I could, it just didn't go well. I still have a B+!"

 

Dad: "Not good enough, junior! And don't tell me you tried hard. You failed, so of course you weren't trying!"

 

O crap. Is the Dad really Yost, though? Should we really be blaming him? I'm so confused.

 

This the same junk we had to wade through when the Brewers were 4 under. They don't care. They aren't good enough. IT'S ALL Yost's fault. Season over! And on and on. The Brewers got swept but they'll get over it. Time for the fan base to do the same.

[jhart05]

Don't people think it's possible, if not likely, that Ned isn't so "it's no big deal" when the media isn't around?

 

 

I do.

 

I also believe that if he didn't... he wouldn't be at the park early and stay there 'till all hours of the night, and he would have been gone a long time ago.

 

If some people don't like what Yost says to the media, it's simple, don't read or listen to it.

[Thurston Fluff]

Excellent post Russ.

 

Did the Cards just not play hard against the Brewers a week ago? Was La Russa to blame for that beat down we gave them? If it's Yost's fault this week then it was La Russa's fault last week. I haven't seen our resident pessimist give credit in the same situations he's heaping blame. That pretty much leads me to believe it more a love to complain than it being a legitimate complaint.

 

 

and sadly have lost 5 games to the cubs (in standings) in 5 days. that will be tough top make up

 

It took about a week and half last time they were down by 5 games. This is going to be a fight to the very end. The Cubs did beat us down and we have to deal with it. We did manage to have two winning trips at their place already this year. Despite this last drubbing we are 4-6 agisnt them and have more home than road games left against them. Though so far each team is better on the road than at home in this series so maybe that's not a good thing.

Nothing has been won. Nothing has been lost. No one has come close to proving who is better overall. There is another two months to see who is what.

I have grown to respect the Cubs as a team but still feel my team can and will compete with them to the very end. When the end of the season comes then we will see which manager has lead his team to the playoffs.

 

Even with this beat down the Brewers so far are a better road team than the Cubs and that may still play into the end results. Before we just crown the Cubs they do need to prove they can consistently win on the road IMO.

Just curious if our esteemed Cub fans on this board would agree with that or if they are not worried about it after this week?

[dvoiss]

I just think some people on this board need to start keeping things in perspective. Baseball is not football. Its not about rah rah and pep rallies and "Lets kill this opponent". Baseball does not lend itself well to that type of atmosphere. Football is a sprint. Baseball is a marathon. Too many people on this board have a football mentality about a baseball season. In football one bad game can cost you a season. Thats not true in baseball. One bad game (or series) does not a season break.

 

162 games is a long season. Even the best teams are going to have down times and the worst teams are probably all gonna win 5 in a row at some point. If the Pirates put together a 5 game winning streak are their fans going to start thinking pennant? Of course not. So why should we start thinking our season is over? The worst the Brewers have done is pick a bad time to have a down stretch. Was it because they choked under pressure? Was it because the Cubs played really well? Who knows. Jim Powell said it well on the pregame yesterday. A season is a series of peaks and valleys. The Brewers are in a valley right now. The Cubs are on a peak. Were only 2/3 of the way through this season. There's a lot of ball left to be played. There is no evidence to suggest that they can't turn this around. People are upset right now and rightfully so. But it's no time to start writing obituaries.

[valpocrewsader]

Also wondering how you (Valpocrusader) came up with a 6-4 record vs the Cubs. I attended Valparaiso myself and I know that they instruct better than that.

I never mentioned a record in my post, that was one of the followup posts after mine. By my memory, we're 4-6 against Chicago.

 

 

Just curious why you think the Brewers should be ahead of the Cubs?

 

I think they should be ahead of the Cubs because we were tied with them on Sunday with a home game against the Astros followed by four against the Cubs also at home. A win versus the Astros and a split with the Cubs gives us the division lead if we had simply taken care of business in AZ a few weeks ago when our win probability was 99.997% or whatever it was. At the very least we should still be tied with them. (That doesn't necessarily mean that I think the Brewers are as good as the Cubs or are the better team.)

 

[Thurston Fluff]

I think they should be ahead of the Cubs because we were tied with them on Sunday with a home game against the Astros followed by four against the Cubs also at home. A win versus the Astros and a split with the Cubs gives us the division lead if we had simply taken care of business in AZ a few weeks ago when our win probability was 99.997% or whatever it was. At the very least we should still be tied with them. (That doesn't necessarily mean that I think the Brewers are as good as the Cubs or are the better team.)

 

I understand what you're saying Valpo but by that reasoning the Cubs should have been well ahead of us by the time they got to Milwaukee. They dropped a series against the Astos, Diamondbacks and only went 2-2 at home to the Marlins. If they had played like they should have they would have won at least three more of those games.

The Brewers have let some games slip away but I suspect the Cub's loss to the Brewers when they had a three run lead should be one they won that they shouldn't have. Also the one where they won with two outs and were down to their last out was one that they won that should have been a loss. I wouldn't get to caught up with the one that got away since that happens to every team just like the victories that every team steals now and again.

[TooLiveBrew]

Sadly, the tone for this series was set Sunday as Yost sat idly by waiting for Suppan to get that 3rd out against the Astros.

 

So Suppan sucking against the Astros & Yost leaving him in too long affected all the players on the roster in like a -5 temporaty talent hit in every way? Does this expire now that the Cubs series is over, or does Yost have to come up lucky on the 12-sided die to cease the curse?

 

 

This the same junk we had to wade through when the Brewers were 4 under. They don't care. They aren't good enough. IT'S ALL Yost's fault. Season over! And on and on. The Brewers got swept but they'll get over it. Time for the fan base to do the same.

 

I wish there was more of this levity here at times. I certainly understand the emotional reactions (I had mine, to be sure), but I just don't understand how some fans can legitimately believe, 'Same old Brewers -- obviously they're headed for a tailspin'

 

No, they didn't play anywhere close to 'well' this homestand, but that's over, and has little to nothing to do with their current opponent, Atlanta. If people legitimately expect Hart, Braun, etc. to continue to play like they've never seen a baseball, I just don't think much can come from the discussion.

[JohnBriggs12]

It's no different in any sport. It has to be clear in the locker room who is running the team.

 

When Jason Kendall plays every day because he wants to and the manager lets him regardless of his performance or the rational idea that a catcher nearing his mid 30's needs more rest than he's getting, then who is running the team, Kendall or Yost?

 

With a guy like Piniella, that's never been an issue.

[TooLiveBrew]

It has to be clear in the locker room who is running the team.

 

Who's your guess then? Do you really, honestly think that Yost sticking with Soup too long (something he's done before with SP & will do again) changes any of that? Honestly?

 

Kendall's defense alone imo makes him a better option than Rivera, and Jason has been far more durable than your average C for his entire career.

 

Lou Piniella has got to be the most overrated manager in baseball... but only by Brewers fans.

[lukevan]

It has to be clear in the locker room who is running the team.

 

So... you think the players don't know? Do they all think that they themselves run the team? I don't get it.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

First of all, thanks for the kind words, fellas. You sit there and get pies tossed at you for 4 goddamned days straight, and you can't say anything. It was torture. OK, it wasn't as if Pvt Lynndie England was there, pointing and laughing at ME, as electrodes were tied to my nether regions, but in terms of sports loyalty, I took a big one for this team, in the Land of the Cub.

 

Anyway, a few of you have wondered whether Private, Locker Room Ned may not be equal to Press Conference Ned. I think they may be, and it's because his in-game decisions, his actions if you will, reflect what he says in those soundbites.

 

In his soundbites, he never dresses down Weeks, Mota, Obermueller, Helms, Clark... And his choices regarding playing time; i.e. the confidence he apparently DOES have in clowns like these, manifests itself in those decisions.

 

He says (Insert struggling his latest personal Brewer favorite here) will be fine, he's battling. And he keeps playing that guy. That's all I need, to confirm he seems to mean what he's saying to the media.

[rluzinski]

Geno,

 

I'm sure it's hell to have to live in Cubs country after a sweep like that. It's tough for me even put up with them for 3 hours. But to have to be subjected to that makes you less objective about the situation. I think at least some of your comments are coming from your heart, not your noggin'.

 

These kind of series affect the fans a lot more than the team. The team sure didn't look hung over tonight.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

RL:

 

I agree in part. I was VERY ticked off yesterday, after at least 2 somewhat mean-spirited little comments that I had to absorb, and I posted angrily. It was cleansing and cathartic and all, but still, a bit emotional.

 

But 1 game, against a VERY bad Atlanta team doesn't wash away that 5-run lead Ned left Mota in to blow...or Monday night's game when Durham and Counsell were better options, or the Julian Tavarez affair. He's still an enabler whose answers are literally, "you have to keep battlin'."

 

Ned did a great Nero impersonation, fiddling while Rome, Wisconsin burned.

 

Up the thread, the comparison was made to Tony LaRussa last week. Didn't his team also blow home game after home game to a key divisional rival? Yes of course. But St. Louis's management left the talent cupboard bare for T. La R. by spending all their money building that unnecessary new stadium. Tony's pitching staff and outfield were held together this year by strings and chicken wire supplied by Dave Duncan and Tony himself. No one expected them to still be in the race because the talent just isn't there. Joel Pineiro? Ryan Ludwick? Todd Wellemeyer? Kyle Lohse? Braden Looper? Skip Schumacher? They've overachieved, in a big way so far. Tony's Manager of the Year, hands down. Even if they slide back to .500, he's still got the trophy.

 

But Ned's the opposite. Give him lesser talent, and he can't do anything creative with it. Give Ned great talent, and he can't guide them to the Promised Land.

 

Just imagine if we had a real veteran manager, a no-coddling guy with legit credentials who has accomplishments on his resume. A Davey Johnson, a Bobby Valentine, a Ken Macha, even an againg Jim Fregosi. Those 3, 4, 5 games a year Ned's decisions cost us could turn into 1, 2 or 3, maybe none...maybe even a plus 1, 2 or 3 games in the standings with better decisions.

 

But we'll never know, because Ned will probably get another extension this winter, after a 90-win season when we JUST missed the Wild Card by 2 games.

[danzig6767]

I'm no fan of Ned Yost, but the Cubs have a better offensive team, a better pitching staff, and they are a better defensive team than the Brewers. The only thing i see the Brewers being better at than the Cubs is hitting home runs.

 

On the season the Cubs lead the NL in runs scored and are second in team ERA to the Dodgers. The Cubs not only lead the NL in batting average, they lead the NL in walks taken. The Cubs pitching staff is not only second in ERA, they are second in WHIP and tied for first in striking out batters.

 

The only reason the Brewers were a single game back before that four game debacle was our great record in one run games. Our lineup is so righthanded heavy with to many low batting average hitters, some of whom also don't walk enough. When the Cubs threw out there three straight power throwing righthanded starters, they exposed the greatest weakness of the Brewers team. It sure did suck watching the Cubs spank us like that, but i don't doubt at all that they are a better team, even if Ned isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.

[Ennder]

I would post my opinion of the original post in this thread but I would end up banned from the forum. I will suffice it to say every negative thing you have to say about the Cubs series was probably 100% the opposite of what you would have said after the Cardinals series. If you really want to be honest with yourself the two series offset each other completely.

 

The Cubs are about the same as the Brewers from a starting pitching standpiont, they are about the same as the Brewers offensively though they have had way more overachievers. They have a slightly better bullpen and a better defense and that means they are a better team. They aren't a sweep better than us, that was just luck but most likely they will win the division and we will be playing for the wild card unless Zambrano or Harden go down relatively soon.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

Once again, it's not my imagination.

 

I've been debating up and back with Sam, Russ, and a few others, and it was cool...until now.

[Ennder]

Don't get me wrong, I think Yost is a bad manager and he should have been fired last year. I just think the reasons you posted are pedestrian and have more or less nothing to do with why they Brewers are winning or losing this year. The mods on this forum are uber conservative so I no longer have any idea what is constructive criticism and what gets me a warning/ban so I am now just avoiding saying anything negative at all towards another poster but I really think you are off base as to why Yost is a bad manager. It isn't because he enables things in press releases and it is completely because he makes bad in game choices.

 

To put it bluntly yes Yost is correct that hiting with RISP is more or less completely random and there is nothing he can do about it. It is just one of many facets of the game that is completely random and the team and manager has almost no control over, especially over a 2-3 week sample.

[trwi7]

The Cubs are about the same as the Brewers from a starting pitching standpiont, they are about the same as the Brewers offensively though they have had way more overachievers. They have a slightly better bullpen and a better defense and that means they are a better team. They aren't a sweep better than us, that was just luck but most likely they will win the division and we will be playing for the wild card unless Zambrano or Harden go down relatively soon.

 

Wow, I'm really not sure how you can type this with a straight face.

The Cubs lead the NL in runs scored, 34 runs ahead of the second place Phillies. The Brewers are 8th. They're also 1st in BA (Brewers are 10th), 1st in OBP (Brewers are 10th), tied for 1st in SLG% (Brewers are 3rd) and 1st in OPS (Brewers are 5th) The only thing the Brewers do better than the Cubs is hit homeruns and we've only hit 17 more than them this year.

 

As for pitching. Their team ERA is 3.82, the Brewers is 4.12. Their team FIP is 4.17, the Brewers is 4.42. They're slightly better than the Brewers as a team not walking batters and they strike out far more. They're just a much better, more well rounded team than the Brewers are.

 

[Ennder]

The Cubs lead the NL in runs scored, 34 runs ahead of the second place Phillies. The Brewers are 8th. They're also 1st in BA (Brewers are 10th), 1st in OBP (Brewers are 10th), tied for 1st in SLG% (Brewers are 3rd) and 1st in OPS (Brewers are 5th) The only thing the Brewers do better than the Cubs is hit homeruns and we've only hit 17 more than them this year.

 

As for pitching. Their team ERA is 3.82, the Brewers is 4.12. Their team FIP is 4.17, the Brewers is 4.42. They're slightly better than the Brewers as a team not walking batters and they strike out far more. They're just a much better, more well rounded team than the Brewers are.

ERA includes bullpen which I said the Cubs have an advantage in and it includes defense which I said they had advantage in. You simply cannot separate defense and bullpen from overall pitching when looking at total stats. The Cubs have pretty much nobody offensively that is having an off year and a number of players having 'career' years, stats are subjective and I think that their offense is overproducing at this point.

 

If you swapped the Cub starters with the Brewer starters I doubt the overall team ERA would change at all, it is mostly a product of bullpen and defense.

[trwi7]

ERA includes bullpen which I said the Cubs have an advantage in and it includes defense which I said they had advantage in. You simply cannot seperate defense and bullpen from overall pitching when looking at total stats. The Cubs have pretty much nobody offensively that is having an off year and a number of players having 'career' years, stats are subjective and I think that their offense is overproducing at this point.

 

The Cubs bullpen ERA is 4.05, ours is 4.08 so their advantage is coming from somewhere other than bullpen. I also posted the FIP's of each team which again the Cubs come out ahead in. Now we should close the gap with Sabathia pitching every five days instead of one of Bush or McClung but they have Harden taking the place of Gallagher which also helps them.

[1992casey]

"I'm really not sure how you can type this with a straight face." is an example of something that crosses the condescension line at the warning level rather than the strike or ban level. Of course, repeated instances by the same member could up the ante.

[wildbobu]

Now let me preface this by saying I'm not a huge supporter of Yost. But why when the team falls apart is it automatically the managers fault? Just seems like the easiest scapegoat.
With Ned he can't win if the Brewers win its despite him, if they lose its all his fault. I personally think it was just a very bad series for the 5-8 hitters to completly take off. I'm more worried about the bottom of the Brewer lineup not turning things around then I am of Ned costing us the playoffs. Hart I expect to rebound and pick it up but someone else needs to step up and produce or too much will rely on the top half of the order and that will be troublesome to say the least.

[ecjimg]

Since when are threads with rediculous titles allow to remain as is?

[GenoSeligPrieb]

"Since when are threads with rediculous titles allow to remain as is?"

 

Dude, without ridiculous titles, I'm out of bidniss!

 

I use them to make my posts distinct and hopefully compelling. Ask yourself which thread seems more creative and worth reading: "Moves I'd Make for the Stretch Run" or one called "American Idle"?

 

" The mods on this forum are uber conservative so I no longer have any idea what is constructive criticism and what gets me a warning/ban so I am now just avoiding saying anything negative at all towards another poster....I just think the reasons you posted are pedestrian and have more or less nothing to do with why they Brewers are winning or losing this year."

 

While this wasn't that harsh, calling someone else's ideas "pedestrian" has undercurrents of snobbish condescension. Would you like it if someone called your ideas "pedestrian?" If you condescend again and again, they add up, dude.

 

"but I really think you are off base as to why Yost is a bad manager. It isn't because he enables things in press releases and it is completely because he makes bad in game choices."

 

See? Now THIS is a great way to present your side of the debate, as everyone else in this thread has, without the condescension. I'll be glad to answer this one, Ennder.

 

I think the Brewers get all flop-sweaty and fail in critical games because the sense of urgency is not instilled in them, and I'm afraid the motivation thing is on Ned. Of course, all games count as 1 out of 162, and you can't get too high or too low. Mike Ditka ultimately "lost" his Bears team in his last 5-11 season in 1992, because he screamed and demanded 110% for every practice! But there ARE "statement games" like the ones at Shea Stadium last May, the late July series at Wrigley last year (when Kevin Mench was selected by Ned to bat in the 9th against a tiring righty reliever, with Jenkins available on the bench), against Boston on national TV this May, and this week's 4-gamer against Chicago, with a chance to shut their fans' pieholes. And in those cases, the Brewers appeared unprepared for the deeper scrutiny, frightened by the bright lights like a mouse in your kitchen at 2 AM.

 

But even after these titanic failures, Yost keeps saying "but we're still in first place" and "we're doing just fine." This Pollyanna attitude from the players' boss, filters down. The pitchers and hitters read these quotes, too, and I can't blame them for unclenching their fists and relaxing just a tiny bit. Some will argue that Ned doesn't panic, and that he doesn't overreact to adversity. But there ARE times to summon up your very, very best for THIS game or for that one, to stop a losing streak, or to compete in your own stadium with a crowd that's 2/3rd's Cub fans. And I just don't see Ned's Brewer teams doing that...which could prove to be the difference between a very talented team that finishes close to the top, and one that just steps on the throttle and "goes for it."

 

There's also the security blanket tone that Ned sets for some really poorly performing players. Deep-down, Weeks didn't seem worried that he was jogging back to first base on that liner to left field, which turned into a DP. If he hustled, he'd have been safe at first, but his playing time is NOT being endangered by Yost, so human instinct for some people, signals that it's OK, don't break your arse running back to first. It's not like you're going to get benched, or sent to AAA or anything.

 

Bob Brenly was saying after that embarrassing double-play, (paraphrasing) "Boy, for a guy who's been struggling, and who sees a new acquisition like Ray Durham, and a veteran like Craig Counsell on the same second base depth chart, you'd think Weeks would have been running full tilt back to first." Exactly! And whose fault is it for enabling that sense of comfort, where there are no consequences for bad plays?

 

Debating like this, is much more fun.

[And That]

Since when are threads with rediculous titles allow to remain as is?

Ridiculousness is in the eye of the beholder.