Free Agents in 2009

[paul253]

Sorry just to avoid any confusion, are you talking about Gwynn or Weeks?

[Oldcity]

Weeks had a good year last year, so not sure where "3 years of awful" comes into play. And Weeks dominated the minor leagues, while Gwynn has never been an average hitter in the minors. I don't see how the argument holds water.

[paul253]

Good year? He hit .225, although he had a decent on based percentage. 16 homeruns and 36 RBI with 25 SBs.....i wouldnt classify that as "good"...i'd classify it as average. His career BA is .243 his career OBP is .350 and slugging of .402. Hes not a leadoff hitter by any means, but if he wasnt hitting leadoff, all of his stats minus SB's would be well below average. He strikes out way too much, and he strikes out on 3 pitches more than anyone ive ever seen. I cant remember the last time I saw him try to hit the ball to the opposite field. His approach is horrible, he tries to pull everything and he never lets up on his swing, even when a grounder to second will score a run. His defense is pathetic and probably cost us game one of the Cubs series. Yet somehow he's still getting a pass. I'd rather see Durham play every day. Meanwhile its already been determined thru his 235 career at bats that Gwynn ismt worth a roster spot. Im not saying Gwynn is going to be an allstar by any means. Just saying he deserves a roster spot, possibly in centerfield, because theres no reason to sign an outfielder when we have 3 or 4 prospects who will be ready within 2 years. And one career error in over 400 innings.

[paul253]

On another note...Counsell is due to come off the books too i just noticed....hes also making a little chunk of change..like $3 mil? With all that salary (Sheets, Mota, Cameron, Counsell, Gagne, Turnbow), if they cant resign Sheets and/or Sabathia I will be disappointed. You think 6 years $120 million will get Sabathia? In a year Kendall's 5 million comes off, then in 2 years Suppan's 12 million. Fielder will probably be gone and others will be replaced with guys like Escobar, Brantley, Salome, Gamel, and Gillespie and making low salaries. Hopefully some of our pitching will develop and the Fielder trade will bring in some good young pitchers. I dont think a 6 year deal for Sabathia or Sheets will hold us down too much.

[endaround]

Sabathia would laugh at 6yrs/$120 m. 7 yrs/$150 million is the ball park. He wants a Santana type contract who got 6yrs/$143m while actually still being under contract for one year.

[Gobias Industries]

paul253-

 

Kind of nitpicking, but he had an average of .235. Though that means nothing, as BA is useless. An OBP of .374 is very good.

 

Weeks has had a crappy year, no doubt. The .707 OPS he currently has is probably Gwynn's peak though. He's just not a good enough player for him to start on a contender.

[paul253]

Sabathia would laugh at 6yrs/$120 m. 7 yrs/$150 million is the ball park. He wants a Santana type contract who got 6yrs/$143m while actually still being under contract for one year.

I dont know if "laugh at" would be a good term. Give him the seventh year and the extra $1.4 million. That not that big of a deal. If not, I'm sure Sheets will cost less than Sabathia.

[Chio151]

Sabathia would laugh at 6yrs/$120 m. 7 yrs/$150 million is the ball park. He wants a Santana type contract who got 6yrs/$143m while actually still being under contract for one year.

I dont know if "laugh at" would be a good term. Give him the seventh year and the extra $1.4 million. That not that big of a deal. If not, I'm sure Sheets will cost less than Sabathia.

That's is just so much money to tie up in one pitcher. CC is perhaps the one player in either league I would consider for that type of money going forward. He's a durable true ace pitcher with a good bat. That's nearly impossible to find.

 

 

 

The question is: CC > Sheets + Fielder ?

 

[JohnBriggs12]

I don't believe there is any chance that either Cameron is back or that Gwynn is the CF next season

 

I expect CF next season to be manned either by Corey Hart or Bill Hall. Hall and Cameron are virtually identical as offensive players. You can carry one guy with those attributes but not both.

 

Gamel could figure in either at 3B or RF or they will sign or deal for a LH bat who plays OF or 3B.

[paul253]

If you put Hall in center and Gamel at third your defense is just horrible. Add Weeks at second, Fielder at first, and Braun, although he hasnt made any errors, his range is limited and he misplays some balls still. Though Hall wasnt bad in center, a year back at third would almost make it a learning process again. Its too bad Brantley wont be ready next season, I think hes exactly what we need in center. He can bat leadoff and move Weeks down to the 6th spot where he can relax a bit and hopefully, finally, start hitting.

[markedman5]

Haudricourt asked Melvin about the possiblity of Hart moving to center in the future and he basically said that it is not going to happen. The Brewers see Hart as a corner outfielder not a centerfielder. FWIW

[kramnoj]

I do think that CF is going to be a bad position for the Brewers next year. Cameron has delivered as expected this season and is good value for his salary. It is unlikely that he will be worth $10 million next year. I thought that Gwynn had been doing better earlier this season, but he is not doing well right now. He's not even hitting doubles, which a guy with speed should be able to do. He would be cheap but be an offensive negative next season.

 

Another option would be Coco Crisp. I imagine that Boston would like to unload him, so he shouldn't cost much in prospects. He hasn't had good offense the last 3 seasons, but he is supposed to be a plus defender and there's a chance he could catch some of the spark he showed in Cleveland early in his career. He's owed $5.75 mil next year, which is probably more than he's worth but isn't awful. He has an $8 mil option for 2010 or a $500k option. He would basically be in between Cameron and Gwynn. Not as good as Cameron, but at a reduced price. Probably better than Gywnn without being crazy expensive and doesn't have a long term contract.

 

I think a rule change allows an option that wasn't always available: I think the Brewers could buy out Cameron's option for $750k and then try to negotiate a new contract. Obviously you risk losing him if you do that, so the Brewers would need to get a good read on other teams that might be interested and project what other teams would offer.

 

Edit: I'm going through other team's rosters to see who has reserves that could be options for 2009 CF for the Brewers. Ryan Rayburn looks interesting. He'll be 28 next year, so he doesn't have a long term future for the Tigers and he has good stats and has played some CF. He could be an intriguing guy to have compete for CF next year and would make a useful reserve regardless. I wouldn't think he would take too much to get from the Tigers.

[faede2black]

Is Michael Brantley chopped liver?

 

A good CF prospect with 5 things the Brewers absolutely need.

 

Strike Zone Discipline.

On Base Percentage

Stolen Base Threat

Left Hander

 

 

Not to mention the guy can play solid Center Field. Outside of his ankle injury, he'd be having a statistical season of epic proportions in AA.

[kramnoj]

faede2black, do you think it is likely that the Brewers would give CF to a 22 year old who hasn't spent any time in AAA? I can see a scenario that has Gwynn and a veteran manning CF at the beginning of the season and Brantley starting at AAA with the chance of being promoted if he does well and Gwynn struggles.

[southpaw121505]

Haudricourt asked Melvin about the possiblity of Hart moving to center in the future and he basically said that it is not going to happen. The Brewers see Hart as a corner outfielder not a centerfielder. FWIW

Good, he's not even that good of a rightfielder, let alone cf. Not sure why people are so anxious to shift him to center. I think our next Cf needs to be a leadoff option. I want to give Weeks a shot lower in the order before I give up on him and move him.

[faede2black]

Everyone seems to be jumping on the Escobar SS for the brewers next season. I see no reason (other then the Indians taking him) to think Brantley can't be just as effective. Better then Gwynn for sure! A legit leadoff hitter who won't strike out. Something we absolutely need!

[kramnoj]

Good, he's not even that good of a rightfielder, let alone cf. Not sure why people are so anxious to shift him to center

 

Hart looked good in RF last year and is the fastest guy on the team. I for one thought that he could be near average (probably just a bit below average) defensively but have great offense for the position. Add the previous incentive to find a spot for LaPorta and I wasn't the only one who dreamed of a Braun/Hart/LaPorta OF that wouldn't be good defensively but should have the most power in the majors.

 

His defense doesn't look nearly as good this year and I think LaPorta being traded was a signal that the Brewers didn't think they had a spot in the majors for Matt for the next couple of years. Mevlin has shown that he is willing to take fliers on guys like Podsednik and Brady Clark, I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to find one of those guys this witner.

 

Edit: Everyone seems to be jumping on the Escobar SS for the brewers next season. I see no reason (other then the Indians taking him) to think Brantley can't be just as effective. Better then Gwynn for sure! A legit leadoff hitter who won't strike out. Something we absolutely need!

 

It's certainly not true that everybody is ready for Escobar. For those who do like Escobar, there are a couple of reasons. His defense is expected to be fantastic. Like top 5 as soon as he takes the field. Because Weeks has struggled so much some would rather trade him and bring up Escobar. I don't know much about Brantley's defense. Why has he been spending time at 1B? Is that a way for him to recover from injury?

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I'd make an offer to Jon Garland. He would be a nice addition to next year's team.

[NievesNoNO]

Count me in for Garland as well. I've succumbed to the fact that the Brewers will have neither Sheets or C.C. next year. I do think there are some decent arms on the market to be had for a reasonable price though. I also wouldn't mind Derek Lowe, Jason Jennings, or Oliver Perez.

 

Somebody also mentioned Wheeler and Soriano. I think they would be welcomed additions too.

 

Rocco Baldelli would be interesting. He's kind of earned the lifetime prospect status with all his injuries, but when he's healthy he sure looks like he can be a force.

[endaround]

John Garland=Jeff Suppan

 

No thanks

[paul253]

I'm not giving up on the chance of resigning one of the two. I think we have the money to do it, its just a matter of whether we are willing to give them the years. 7 years at $145 for Sabathia...thats a lot to pay, but he's been extremely durable, he's still relatively young, and he's still very affective. We have a lot of money coming off the books this year with some relatively inexpensive talent coming up in Gamel, Escobar, Salome, Lucroy, Gillespie...etc. We all assume Prince will be traded, that will save money down the line. Braun is locked up, which leaves really only Hart and Hardy I'd like to see signed long term. I think we can do it.

[liveforoctober]

Random thought... does anyone know Durham's status? Is he a Type B free agent?

[Brian the Automator]

Random thought... does anyone know Durham's status? Is he a Type B free agent?

He might be a Type B, but I think Durham would most likely accept arbitration.

 

[liveforoctober]

He is a Type B ... just looked it up, but I think you are right. I think he'd accept as well.

[Tbadder]

Next year is going to be a down year for the Crew. They simply will not be able to compete for a playoff spot. Nothing wrong with that at all, it happens. So whatever the Brewers do next year, they have to concentrate on long term solutions, nothing patchwork. No more 1 year or 2 year 10 to 15 million dollar contracts. Everything should be geared to Fielder's last year with the team--a final push with this core before rehauling the big rig.