Prince is playing like he is a rookie again

[ELCABALLO45]

I have gotten really depressed with Prince this year, he has shown some signs of life before but it feels like its never going to happen.

I started thinking about how it feels like its 2006 (his rookie year) all over again. So I checked his stats and this is what I came up with....

Through 104 games in (2006 on the left, 2008 on the right.)

AB - 376/375

BA - .290/.275

OBP - .350/.370

OPS - .858/.863

SLG - .508/.493

HR - 19/20

RBI - 54/58

2B - 23/18

R - 52/55

SO - 83/83

H - 109/103

So basically Prince is playing like he is a rookie again. Those numbers are NOT terrible, however I expected more out of Prince this year.

Obviously he was not going to hit 50 again, but I didnt think he was going to regress this much.

Im probably the biggest Prince fan on this board, but sometimes this year its almost like he is lost at the plate.

I love you Prince, but you need to step it up. We can't do this without you big guy.

(clearer thread title --1992)

[ILuvDaBush]

I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment that We cannot do this without the Regal One. I like that he's been taking a lot of pitches, and thus walks, lately. And honestly, I didn't even realize he had regressed to his '06 numbers, where he fell off the map HARD at the end of the year, but much like Rickie, you just know it's going to happen. If his numbers end up being this comparable at the end of the season, I will seriously take a small contingent of Brewerfan.net siters to the second or third game of next year (Opening Day is for amateurs). The guy is just too good to be that mediocre.

[pretendastronaut]

I thought this was going to be about his temper tantrums at the plate and in the dug out lately. There hasn't seemed to be much talk about that, but he seems to have no composure lately. I don't see the numbers climbing back up until he can get focused again.

[sbrylski]

Just pure observational speculation, but Prince seems to hate seeing Ryan Braun taking over this team. Not that he hates Ryan Braun, but he wants so badly to be the guy, and be in the spotlight. I specifically say this because of how he approaches AB's after a Braun HR. He's up there just swinging as hard as he can trying to match it.

[sbrylski]

Definitely a small sample, but here are the stats to back up my observation:

 

Prince Fielder's PA following a Ryan Braun HR, 2008

 

AB - 24

H - 3

2B - 1

3B - 0

HR - 1

K - 7

BB - 0

HBP - 1

 

BA - .125

OBP - .148

SLG - .292

OPS - .440

 

That's pretty bad. But maybe all players have trouble following a HR.

[Roscoe Chill]

I noticed/think the same thing about Prince after Braun homers.

[ELCABALLO45]

Geez, Nice Find. I notice it as well but I didnt think it was THAT bad.

 

Hopefully he will figure it out

[DougJones43]

Just pure observational speculation, but Prince seems to hate seeing Ryan Braun taking over this team. Not that he hates Ryan Braun, but he wants so badly to be the guy, and be in the spotlight....Definitely a small sample, but here are the stats to back up my observation...

Looks like their may be some validity outside of the anecdotal evidence. And that one HBP Prince got was probably because the opposing pitcher hates Ryan Braun. Haha.

[Diggr14]

I think the whole contract thing is still messing with him. Couple that with not paying his taxes... and being completely outplayed by what was the "other guy" on this team is all probably getting to him. It's a lot of pressure being the face of the franchise, but I think it's even more pressure filled when someone surplants you in what are supposed to be your best seasons of your life.

[Hate those Rodents]

Maybe the evidence above is the bigger reason Yost wanted Braun hitting after Fielder....

[crewcrazy]

And that one HBP Prince got was probably because the opposing pitcher hates Ryan Braun. Haha.

I believe that HBP came in St. Louis, after Braun hit a solo HR in the 9th to push the Brewers lead to 3-0. It was Prince's second HBP in that game and he kind of smiled after it happened, which made it seem like he knew it was "retaliation" for Braun's solo HR. Of course, Ryan retaliated back a day later in the 9th inning. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

Edit: While Prince's production this year has been a little disappointing, I still wouldn't say he's having a bad year. I know Prince has always prided himself on being more than just a power hitter, but I don't think he'll ever really consistently be around .300, which is fine since he's gotten much better at taking walks when pitchers want to pitch around him (although he could still improve -- he gets himself out too many times for my liking). He'll probably hover around .275-.280 most years like he is now, with a few years like last year when he flirts with .290. His slugging is definitely down, but it'd be crazy to expect him to slug .618 like he did last year again.

 

Right now he's hovering around his rookie production through the same amount of games, but like ILuvDaBush said, he really fell off when he hit the rookie wall. I think he'll be much more consistent down the stretch run this year, and he'll end up with some pretty nice numbers. I do agree, though, that he doesn't seem to be taking too kindly to being "#1-B" compared to Braun's "#1-A". Ryan really came out of nowhere to steal Prince's thunder, both in terms of on-field production and off-field fan adoration. Even when Prince was in the process of hitting 50 HR last year, I'd argue that more people were excited about the crazy numbers Braun was putting up in his first season, given his late start.

[DannoMac21]

Just pure observational speculation, but Prince seems to hate seeing Ryan Braun taking over this team. Not that he hates Ryan Braun, but he wants so badly to be the guy, and be in the spotlight. I specifically say this because of how he approaches AB's after a Braun HR. He's up there just swinging as hard as he can trying to match it.

I definitely have noticed that as well. Although, you can't really blame him too much because the fans (no BF.net, I'm not blaming the fans) are still somewhat cheering for the HR, almost anticipating another one because it's Prince. I'm sure there's a lot of adrenaline rushing through him in those situations.

 

I've had somewhat of a theory all year that it's possible Prince is still real unhappy and not playing to his full potential due to the contract situation at the start of the year. I'm sure that's been mentioned here before, but that's always running through my head.

 

I'm in the boat that we should trade him after this season if there's no contract situation resolved. The least he could do is tell Melvin that he wants to be in Milwaukee and will give the Brewers a fair shot once he hits free agency. Unfortunately, with Scott Boras at the helm, I find that very unlikely. And by the time Prince hits free agency, Giambi should be close to, if not, retired. I see him as a long term DH anyway. If you could trade him and another prospect for a nice, young arm (Lincecum and Santana are two that come to mind) I'd be all for it. The Giants need a face to their franchise, so that could be a big hit for them.

[Ennder]

You are still just seeing the effects of the slow start on his overall stats. His June OPS was .922 and his July was .882. If he keeps producing in the .882-.922 range the rest of the year his stats will be fine. He had a mediocre April/May. I think you are reading way too much into it.

[FVBrewerFan]

You are still just seeing the effects of the slow start on his overall stats. His June OPS was .922 and his July was .882. If he keeps producing in the .882-.922 range the rest of the year his stats will be fine. He had a mediocre April/May. I think you are reading way too much into it.

Yes and no. I agree his numbers are fine, and there's plenty of time for his power numbers to improve. But I agree with the others that he has a lot of demons playing in his head, and that's holding him back. Obviously there's no proof, but I'm convinced that it's killing him to see Braun get a big contract, out-perform him, slowly but surely become the team leader and fan favorite. Couple that with expecting more out of himself, and that's a lot of baggage to carry to the plate every AB.

[RockCoCougars]

I gotta think we are at the point where this season is going to affect Prince's arbitration number. He is on pace to hit .270 with 30 homers and 90 rbi, certainly a "good" season, but not extraordinary for a cleanup hitter. I have to think unless he catches fire for the last two months, he has cost himself some serious scratch this season.

[monty57]

Just pure observational speculation, but Prince seems to hate seeing Ryan Braun taking over this team. Not that he hates Ryan Braun, but he wants so badly to be the guy, and be in the spotlight. I specifically say this because of how he approaches AB's after a Braun HR. He's up there just swinging as hard as he can trying to match it.

 

If he really is that upset about not being the #1 guy, how would he ever expect to play in a bigger market. Does he think he'd be the #1 guy on the Yankees?

 

I gotta think we are at the point where this season is going to affect Prince's arbitration number. He is on pace to hit .270 with 30 homers and 90 rbi, certainly a "good" season, but not extraordinary for a cleanup hitter. I have to think unless he catches fire for the last two months, he has cost himself some serious scratch this season.

 

I have to agree with this. I think after last season he figured he'd get Howard's $10MM in his first arby year. After this good-but-not-great season, I don't think that's going to happen. This is more reason for young players to try to sign the long-term deal when they can. If Prince truly is having an off year due to his concern about what he's making, how will he feel when he's making half of what he expected next season?

 

All that being said, Ennder is probably right. He got off to a slow start this season and that will depress his stats for a good portion of the season. If he keeps up his current pace, his numbers should be alright at the end of the season. Maybe not what people expected after last season, but still good numbers.

[T B0NE 10]

I think he tries too hard up there at the plate. He's frustrated in many ways with his contract, keeping up with Braun, and his personal struggles. Still all it takes is for him to get hot and suddenly he's back on pace. But we are still waiting for that.

 

Yeah, and I've always noticed that about Fielder after Braun too.

[biedergb]

Clearly he's just tanking it so he gets traded.

But seriously, sbrylski06, those are some interesting numbers. The devil's advocate would say that a pitching change, or empty bases, or a change in approach by the pitcher would play some role. But guys hit back to back homers a lot, and the number that is more eye-popping is the 0 walks. After a homer a pitcher is probably more concerned with giving up another, that I suspect they are a little more careful, and a patient batter should be getting a walk in at least 1/4 of those ABs. But 7 K's and 0 BB's!

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

If there is one thing I love about Fielder its his competitive fire, and I also think he's a genuinely good teammate. No one seemed more fired up last week when Hall & Braunie hit those dongs than Prince. I think he does want to be "the guy", but its a very healthy competitive motivation between himself and Braun. I would say this about the whole team especially since the CC trade. These guys are young, fired up and unselfishly playing for the front of that jersey...it's a great thing to see.

 

As Ennder pointed out, he's been very productive since his cool start. I think he's been a little quieter this year due to Braun's MVP-like performance that is like Prince's last year. I think he'll wind up with a solid year and will have a 2-3 week point in the season where he lights it up...hopefully agaisnt the Cubs.

[TooLiveBrew]

But I agree with the others that he has a lot of demons playing in his head, and that's holding him back.

 

We have access to his psychotherapy records? I don't think we should assume we can make these kinds of assumptions accurately. The list of reasons why Prince has disappointed this season are interesting to say the least: Too fat, not eating meat, 'demons in his head'...

 

If Prince has demons, what does Corey Hart have right now? Are the Cubs fans hiring a voodoo priest? I agree with Ennder, Prince's production is still being held down by 'low' production earlier in the season. Once he gets into August imho more people will start seeing that he's fine. Prince's approach at the plate has been very patient of late (.440+ OBP the past two weeks), and I'd expect him to really start getting some pitches to mash soon.

[Fatter than Joey]

But I agree with the others that he has a lot of demons playing in his head, and that's holding him back

 

http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/dd12523937759ff5e7319edb550bd9a8bcfebf6.jpg

[FVBrewerFan]

But I agree with the others that he has a lot of demons playing in his head, and that's holding him back.

 

We have access to his psychotherapy records? I don't think we should assume we can make these kinds of assumptions accurately. The list of reasons why Prince has disappointed this season are interesting to say the least: Too fat, not eating meat, 'demons in his head'...

 

If Prince has demons, what does Corey Hart have right now? Are the Cubs fans hiring a voodoo priest? I agree with Ennder, Prince's production is still being held down by 'low' production earlier in the season. Once he gets into August imho more people will start seeing that he's fine. Prince's approach at the plate has been very patient of late (.440+ OBP the past two weeks), and I'd expect him to really start getting some pitches to mash soon.

Well, you purposely left out my comment immediately following my infamous "demons" quote: "Obviously there's no proof." I know, admitedly my post is more entertaining out of context. Mock if my must, but I have watched him closely in the dugout, at the plate, his reaction to what Braun does, etc. Obviously, I'm not the only one. Lest we forget, Fielder is not a laptop at the plate. He has emotions just like everyone else, and I hope you would agree that a player's mental state has a huge effect on production. Yes, his OBP is fine, but his power numbers are down. Mock all you want, but I believe watching Braun explode is playing with his head.

[endaround]

Braun July 27, 2007: .348/.393/.665

 

Braun July 27, 2008: .303/.341/.598

 

I believe watching Braun fall off is obviously playing with his head.

[FVBrewerFan]

Braun July 27, 2007: .348/.393/.665

 

Braun July 27, 2008: .303/.341/.598

 

I believe watching Braun fall off is obviously playing with his head.

Sorry, but that's a less than obective response. Last year Prince was "the man." He was in the running for MVP. This year Braun is the man, and now he's the one going to the All Star game, positioning himself for an MVP run, signing a long term contract, and passing Fielder in the hearts of the fans. But I'm sure you're right, there's no chance any of that would bother Prince.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yes, his OBP is fine, but his power numbers are down. Mock all you want, but I believe watching Braun explode is playing with his head.

I think it's just grasping for explanations to derive that Braun has Fielder all squirrley at the plate. Really, this is all just a product of Prince setting the bar ridiculously high with some fans last season.

He's been hitting better than he did in 2006, but had a slow start to this season. If you're not expecting Fielder to continue along around .900 OPS ( a bit), fine. But to expect that he's going to 'continue to struggle', when in reality he stopped struggling after May -- oh, and 'struggling' in this sense = > .800 OPS -- is mistaken, imo. To further extend that Fielder is not only not happy about Braun's contributions to the team, but that it incenses Fielder so that it negatively impacts him at the plate is just a reach to me.

I have no problem with someone that possibly expected more from Prince. I don't see his season as disappointing at all, personally. Where I have the problem is when people 'know' what's going on in his head, when the reality is that it's just fans' grumblings/assumptions. When Fielder is red-hot later on & that timespan happens to also see a Braun slump, the logic that's being applied here leads to a thread title something like this: 'Is Fielder's hot streak putting pressure on Braun batting ahead of him?!'

In each example, there's certainly a small chance that some of the things we fans are assuming may be true, but the much more likely answer is that fans are frustrated & projecting meaning onto a situation where there isn't any. It's just the ups & downs of a baseball season imo.


Mock if my must, but I have watched him closely in the dugout, at the plate, his reaction to what Braun does, etc.

I'm sorry for mocking your point. To me it very much lines up with 'He's too fat', 'No meat means Prince can't hit HR anymore' comments we've seen all season. I don't think that you aren't very carefully observing what you think Prince is feeling, but I just don't think we can peg that down from watching him from afar.


But I'm sure you're right, there's no chance any of that would bother Prince.

Part of the point to me is that this, if you were in Prince's situation, would clearly bother you. How it affects Prince we just can't say. Besides, if signing a long-term deal were so important to Prince (the Boras client), he's had at least two separate offers thus far & rejected both of them. I'm sure in the competitive sense Fielder is gunning for Braun (really could easily pass Braun's HR total at season's end, too), but beyond that I think it's over-analyzing.