How great can a 5 inning starter be?

[Thurston Fluff]

Just looked at the line score for the Cubs and Harden went 5 innings and 87 pitches. He really is great in those five innings and can on occasion go deep in games but overall he averages less than 6 innings/start. Does that really help all that much? I really don't know but I suspect that type of pitcher can turn into a lot of stress on the bullpen. Not really looking to pile on the Cubs or belittle them just really curious if I'm the only one who thinks this will be a problem for them.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

this game is now in the 12th inning and should put some nice wear and tear on the Cubs bullpen before our game. They are even considering putting in Marquis if the game goes longer (significant because he's their scheduled starter tomorrow)........ Either way, if the game goes long tomorrow and we get good pitching performances from our starters tonight and tomorrow we should have a HUGE bullpen advantage for our series.

 

As I type this, the Marlins take a 3-2 lead

[Thurston Fluff]

Ironic that Florida got the lead on the other player in that trade isn't it? I don't want this to be about today alone. I think today is really going to be about what they get out of him all year.

[Trombone482]

GO MARLINS!!

[Postseason2006]

A 5 IP is pretty dang worthless if your BP is being worked in those other 4 games regardless of the 1-2 hits he is giving up. If the guy could've went 8IP or 9IP then he's a stud. I'll take CC over Hardin my Heart any day.

 

BTW....CUBS LOSE!

[logan82]

5 inning starts, short overworked pen. Sounds familiar. Amazing how smart starting pitching can make a manager look.

[Thurston Fluff]

Amazing how smart starting pitching can make a manager look.

 

Not to mention how it can make a bullpen look good. Bullpens look the best when they aren't used much.

[jeffy]

BTW....CUBS LOSE!

 

Did anyone else catch Brenly's ridiculous comment that the series in Milwaukee will obviously be more important to the Brewers? I guess he figures a 1 game lead (that may disappear by Monday, anyway) is so commanding that the Cubs have no worrieshttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/eyes.gif.

[wildbobu]

Yeah I heard Brenly's comments and went huh? I guess the cubs coming out of the gates since the all star game and losing 5 games in the standings is of no worries to them.

[Postseason2006]

Bob Brenly is the biggest tool. I would rather hear a drunk Harry Carey blathering with Steve Stone again.

 

Anyhow, two Brewer wins and a Cub loss tomorrow would look awfully dang good heading into the big showdown vs. the un-lovable losers with Cra Z and HarDLen leading the way.

[dadofandrew]

The average start is between 5 and 6 innings. Effective 5 inning starts can certainly help a team, if the alternative is an ineffective 5 frame outing.

 

Not many teams have Bush/McClung types at #5...they'd happily take a 5 IP, 2 ER start.

[bighurt27]

It's Mark Prior all over again???

[rluzinski]

Harden averages 5.9 IP/start. What is that, 2 less batters a start than average?

[owbc]

Harden's still better than what they had before.

 

Also, I think Len Kasper and Bob Brenly are good announcers. Of course they are biased towards the Cubs, that's what they are getting paid to do. Still, compared to other national announcing teams, they work well together, they usually are talking about something interesting, and they are enthusiastic but not completely over the top giddy for the Cubs.

[sgtcluels]

Hardens nasty. 30Ks in 17.1 IP. Besides his first start with the Cubs he's given up what.. 3 hits? That's a little bit of nasty.

 

The Cubs have a questionable BP that's hurting them. Marmol is over used, especially when it comes to moving desk. Same thing can happen to the Crew if our questionable players stop performing.

[dadofandrew]

5.9 would be above average. I don't think there's a single team averaging 6.

[Tbadder]

I think Harden is an awesome pitcher who will do right by the Cubs until he gets hurt. As pointed out he is a big improvement on what they had and really solidifies the rotation. That being said, I do believe he will go down, and then the pressure could mount.

 

I also think Brenly is right. A four game series at home is a huge deal for the home team. If the home team splits, which is more than likely in this case, the away team wins. If we win 3 of 4, the Cubs have every right to feel they are still in it, albeit down in the standings. But if the Cubs take 3 of 4, they can feel confident; they can out the Crew as pretenders and not contenders.

 

Those are a lot of "ifs" I realize, but I understand where Brenly is coming from.

 

I say we split with the Cubs though, 2-2. The only thing that bothers me about the series is that we are leading with our aces--that's bad. You want them backloaded if possible. Make the team fight tooth and nail early in the series, and then bring down the hammer at the end. If the Cubs manage to bump off one or god forbid both aces, the Crew could be 2 games outta first very quickly.

[ILuvDaBush]

I disagree. If you lead with the aces, then Sweet Lou is going to have a shorter leash for his starters those two days (esp. Lilly, considering he is a lefty). If we get to the already overworked bullpen early, then that means the Dumpster and Harden, a recently converted reliever and a recently converted reverse-paraplegic. If....WHEN we take the first two and we get to their bullpen early, we have to feel good about our chances for a house-cleaning with them bringing their two "aces" to the table and no relief in sight.

[jeffy]

But if the Cubs take 3 of 4, they can feel confident; they can out the Crew as pretenders and not contenders.

Even if this happens the Brewers are still only 3 games out and probably still control the wild card, quite an improved position from where they were just a couple weeks ago. Their season record agains the Cubs will be 5-5.This hardly makes them pretenders. If the Cubs lose 3, they will leave town in second place and have season record of 3-7 against the Brewers.

 

Also note that at the time Brenly made his idiotic comment it was possible that the Cubs would be coming to town in second place.

[tysoncbulls423]

I think Lou kept Harden to 5 innings and 87 pitches to make sure he's at his sharpest for the Thursday start in Milwaukee. He did go 7 IP and threw 110+ against Arizona in his last start. I think Lou was looking ahead and also wanted to get Marshall some work too.

[Shamrock]

The other thing that makes Harden effective is that Marshall is used to "piggyback him"

 

Marshall came in and gave up one run in three innings, which effectively makes Harden's start 8 IP 2 ER because Marshall is being used mostly to give innings when Harden can't.

[rluzinski]

But if the Cubs take 3 of 4, they can feel confident; they can out the Crew as pretenders and not contenders.

 

I'm sure they'd be more than happy to win 3 games, but let's not carried away. The average baseball team knows that 4 games is nothing.