Brewers' HR's and HR Etiquette: Is the Crew getting too cocky?

[Tbadder]

I'll tell you what I'm not a fan of--stupid athletes. I don't care how "big" the moment is. It's the end of July, and say what you will, and believe what you believe, but giving the other team, a good team, material for the locker room board. To give a good team extra motivation--you will be punished, how much and if it matters is yet to be determined. It might amount to nothing; it might amount to disaster. There isn't a man I hate more in baseball than LaRussa, but he's vengeful and intelligent. The idea that someone like him can't take advantage of a young, inexperienced team is naive at best.

 

Now, do I think that the season will hinge on this--not really. The Cards will get blasted in New York this weekend and it could be over for them, the life sapped out of them, by the middle of August. But why take the chance Ryan? Why? You can't see the replay? It's not as much of an accomplishment?

 

I learned the hard way myself. When I was a sophomore in high school I was playing basketball against John Andersen (Michigan, Green Bay, TV celeb). He was really slow and he couldn't jump at all. I took advantage of him all game, embarrassed him in front of a huge crowd. I never reacted. I put my head down and did my job. Near the end I thought I'd sow my wild oats. I deked him right, went baseline to the other side of the rim and monster reverse dunked on him. He looked up and the ball came down in his face. I bike pedalled back on defense smiling the whole way. He called for the ball down low and the block, faked one way and swang his elbow around the other way, caught me right in the mouth. Well, blood was everywhere and three teeth were missing, and it wasn't worth it for a moment of needless stupidity.

[FVBrewerFan]

I learned the hard way myself. When I was a sophomore in high school I was playing basketball against John Andersen (Michigan, Green Bay, TV celeb). He was really slow and he couldn't jump at all. I took advantage of him all game, embarrassed him in front of a huge crowd. I never reacted. I put my head down and did my job. Near the end I thought I'd sow my wild oats. I deked him right, went baseline to the other side of the rim and monster reverse dunked on him. He looked up and the ball came down in his face. I bike pedalled back on defense smiling the whole way. He called for the ball down low and the block, faked one way and swang his elbow around the other way, caught me right in the mouth. Well, blood was everywhere and three teeth were missing, and it wasn't worth it for a moment of needless stupidity.

I was at that game and Anderson owned you.

[sgtcluels]

I personally would rather have the player put his head down and act like he's done it 1,000 times before.

 

But if you are going to come down on show boating, come down on it everywhere. A recent discussion with Cards fan said it was ok for Poooooholes to do it because he's a future hall of famer. That's a double standard.

[pretendastronaut]

Since it was talked about, I checked out a handful of Cardinal forums and based off how quickly this thread has grown to 10 pages, I thought I'd see some heat. Nope, I found all of one actual thread dedicated to it, and most people didn't even get mad;

 

http://www.birdsonthebat.org/showthread.php?t=51230

 

There are a handful of comments on the various boards in game threads, but the attitude is basically the same as that thread. We're the ones making a big deal of it.

[crewcrazy]

If we had a member who actually was at the game, it might help us out a bit. It seemed like everyone in the park knew it was gone -- Braun, the announcers, the fans (you could hear all the air let out of the stadium when he made contact). It definitely seems like one of those shots that was hit a mile high as well as 400+ feet.

 

Here's roughly where the ball landed -- it's almost impossible to view the video frame-by-frame, so I had to hit PrtSc as fast as I could:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/jami34/braunhr.jpg

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/jami34/braunhrzoom.jpg

[lcbj68c]

Too bad that Anderson didn't see you run back down court with your head down the other 99% of the game, he should have had more respect for you, as I do for Braun. 1% does not a man make. That's too bad Anderson had to resort to physical violence to atone for a non-verbal response. It's like these gang-bangers who openly fire and commit murder because somebody "looked at me wrong", or "looked at my girl stupid". You want the last laugh, I encourage the Cards to try and win a big ballgame for a change rather than try and put a bruise in the middle of Braun's back for what was a non-verbal response.

[Glennron]

Thanks for posting that crewcrazy. I don't know why but when I saw it live and even the first replay I thought it was about two rows up, at least I know it was much further now. I still wish he hadn't taken 6 steps before he started to jog, but oh well. I'm sure he didn't have any intentions of showing up Ryan Franklin or the Cardinals, but when players do that it's probably not exactly "respecting" the other team.

[cwolf2012]

"He called for the ball down low and the block, faked one way and swang his elbow around the other way, caught me right in the mouth. Well, blood was everywhere and three teeth were missing, and it wasn't worth it for a moment of needless stupidity."

 

That makes you the bad guy in any way? He's a jerk for not taking it like a man. If all you did was dunk and then backpedal smiling, then he grossly overreacted by elbowing you in the face.

[Patrick425]

Just curious, in 10 pages of "discussion" over this topic. Has anyone changed their opinion about how they feel about it?

 

From my point of view. Seeing something like Kirk Gibson pumping his fist as he's rounding second (long after the ball has hit the stands) or even seeing Braun and Hall do their high five fist pump celebration as Braun got to the dugout steps makes me smile as a fan. I can feel the pride and excitment for the team. Standing and staring (please don't point out that he was walking towards first..whatever) at your "not yet" HR seems like an act of individuality and elicits absolutly no sense of pride for the team in me. Obviously there are others who enjoy watching a player do this.

[Patrick425]

crewcrazy...not that it matters to me (I could care less if it was a 330 foot HR or 500 fto HR, still shouldn't stand and watch it), however, it sure does not appear to me that the ball has landed in those pictures. If it has, it hit that guy in the red shirt and tan pants and he has the worst reflexes of anyone I have ever seen. See that woman in the black shirt in the first row who's leaning to get out of the way and the guy behind her that's stretching out his arms to catch the ball? I believe that is where the ball settled.

[lcbj68c]

I haven't changed my opinion, but I think it runs deeper for some, in how they feel in drawing the line between confidence and arrogance. That is why I haven't changed my opinion, because I feel it was confident more than arrogant. I've seen far greater actions that constitute arrogance, IMO that have been already posted. I realize this is not basketball, but is it any different than when Michael Jordan had a blank stare after hitting a 3-ball? The game is not over, you still have to play defense, therefore, is the objective finished? Back-peddling on defense with your fist in the air and a blank stare on the face, is that so bad?

[lcbj68c]

If it has, it hit that guy in the red shirt and tan pants and he has the worst reflexes of anyone I have ever seen. I dispatch EMS all the time at Miller Park for drunk fans who had no clue a ball was coming their way.

See that woman in the black shirt in the first row who's leaning to get out of the way and the guy behind her that's stretching out his arms to catch the ball? I believe that is where the ball settled. If it is hitting in the first row, why is Ankiel not attempting to make jumping catch to save the game? It's because he knew it was out, so does the left-fielder who gives up 6 steps from the wall. This belief of a potential double is really unfounded.

[SeriesFinale]

From my point of view. Seeing something like Kirk Gibson pumping his fist as he's rounding second (long after the ball has hit the stands) or even seeing Braun and Hall do their high five fist pump celebration as Braun got to the dugout steps makes me smile as a fan. I can feel the pride and excitment for the team. Standing and staring (please don't point out that he was walking towards first..whatever) at your "not yet" HR seems like an act of individuality and elicits absolutly no sense of pride for the team in me.

I agree--I think the difference is that there is inherent joy in those other celebrations; the posing and walking just strikes me as pridefulness.

 

That said, I've gotta repeat that I don't think it's the worst thing ever, nor does it make Braunie or Hall a terrible guy, and that any self-righteous outrage about it is over-the-top.

[MUCrisco]

I learned the hard way myself. When I was a sophomore in high school I was playing basketball against John Andersen (Michigan, Green Bay, TV celeb). He was really slow and he couldn't jump at all. I took advantage of him all game, embarrassed him in front of a huge crowd. I never reacted. I put my head down and did my job. Near the end I thought I'd sow my wild oats. I deked him right, went baseline to the other side of the rim and monster reverse dunked on him. He looked up and the ball came down in his face. I bike pedalled back on defense smiling the whole way. He called for the ball down low and the block, faked one way and swang his elbow around the other way, caught me right in the mouth. Well, blood was everywhere and three teeth were missing, and it wasn't worth it for a moment of needless stupidity.

I am friends with John Anderson. I'll make sure I ask him about this incident and get his feelings on it.

 

 

(pared back long quote --1992)

[Patrick425]

See that woman in the black shirt in the first row who's leaning to get out of the way and the guy behind her that's stretching out his arms to catch the ball? I believe that is where the ball settled. If it is hitting in the first row, why is Ankiel not attempting to make jumping catch to save the game? It's because he knew it was out, so does the left-fielder who gives up 6 steps from the wall. This belief of a potential double is really unfounded.

Watch the video again. No person in their right mind would state that the ball landed where it looks like it landed in that still picture. There is no depth to that picture, the ball is still in the air and is going straight down. That ball had a high trajectory to it, the picture was taken as it was still plumiting towards the bleachers. Ankiel didn't jump because he's not even near the fence (it almost appears as if he's backing away in hopes that it might bounce of the wall). Yes, the entire section as no depth perception and horrible reflexes. The lady in the front row is ducking a ball that is 4 rows behind her. The people behind her are looking forward at a ball that is past them and the guy on the steps has his hands in his pocket as a HR ball is about to hit his "boys". Make sense.

[Postseason2006]

Again, Roberto Alomar stood and watched him game winner hit off Eckersley, while throwing his hands straight in the air while tossing his bat. He also spit in the face of an umpire. Yet, we criticize Braun for watching a homer land 8 - 10 rows up.

 

People then compare it to Joe Carter's homer...If anyone remembers, Carter hit a ball of the shoe top and it barely cleared the fence a few feet off the line against Mitch Willliams.

 

People quit comparing grapefruit with rutabagas.

[Postseason2006]

There is no depth to that picture, the ball is still in the air and is going straight down.

Ever taken Physics? There is no way the ball can go straight down when hit that far unless the wind is blowing. Try again

[lcbj68c]

I guess we'll just have to disagree. Elias and MLB have it at 407 feet, which is not the first row, but apparently their un-biased work and experience of the ballpark are not enough of a convincing factor that this was nothing near a double off the wall, then no amount of chat about the subject is going to convince otherwise. I personally think the reaction of the front row is the ball bounding back off the 8th/10th row of the seats, but again, the feed was quite grainy and really tough to make out what anybody in that section was doing. I'm relying on the give-up actions of the outfielders, the reaction of Braun, the umpires, Franklin, LaRue, and the MLB/Elias sports Bureau estimations that the home run was closer to 410 feet than 385.

[crewcrazy]

crewcrazy...not that it matters to me (I could care less if it was a 330 foot HR or 500 fto HR, still shouldn't stand and watch it), however, it sure does not appear to me that the ball has landed in those pictures. If it has, it hit that guy in the red shirt and tan pants and he has the worst reflexes of anyone I have ever seen. See that woman in the black shirt in the first row who's leaning to get out of the way and the guy behind her that's stretching out his arms to catch the ball? I believe that is where the ball settled.

I believe the ball was already on it's ricochet back into the field when I took the screen capture. Like I said, it's by no means perfect, but at least we can see the ball with a freeze-frame.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

I think the fact that a Cardinals fan forum has little to no discussion on this should tell us how 'horrible' what Braun did actually was. Remember Aramis Ramirez's infamous game-winner off CoCo last season? There was no enraged thread here.

[Patrick425]

Ok, by "staight down" I'm not literally talking straight down, but it came in at a pretty steep angle. Here is the link to the video. I wish I knew how to take a still frame from the video like crewcrazy, but I don't. If you continue to click play/pause rapidly as it goes through the frames (don't use the slider because it only gives you limited still shots), you will clearly see that the ball not only landed in the first row but landed in front of of the people in the first row (it did not come near that guy on the steps, in fact he turns around and gives up on it). The ball in the picture is clearly still in the air.

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?c_id=mil

[brains and braun]

The ball CLEARLY changes direction/trajectory near the guy where crewcrazy has it circled. Watch it on milwaukeebrewers.com. Nice size for the feed. No one can say that ball hit in the first row. It changes direction right by the guy, hence his reaction.

[Patrick425]

You know what. As I watch that video several more times, I stand corrected. It does look to change directions near his feet then ricochet back on to the field. It appears that the only guy in the stands that has a clue where the ball is, is the big dude in the front row with his back to the field. Crazy.

[homer]

"Remember Aramis Ramirez's infamous game-winner off CoCo last season? There was no enraged thread here. "

 

That begs the question: is a HR to win the game in the bottom of the ninth different from a home run to take the lead in the top of the ninth?

[brains and braun]

Just wanna clear up that I wasn't trying to be condescending to Pat or anyone else with my post. I have bad sight, but I was like "It's there, isn't anyone else seeing this."