Brewers' HR's and HR Etiquette: Is the Crew getting too cocky?

[Patrick425]

Frankly, if Braun did not show that exact type of satisfaction and pride at that precise moment - I would think something was wrong with him. No amount of Ned & Ted meetings is ever going to affect the emotion that is perfectly unbridled at the perfect moment.

I don't consider a batter posing (walking slowly or just standing there..it's bascially still posing) to be a show of emotion. Emotion is something that comes naturally. Posing like that is not a natural thing to do and has to be somewhat thought about. Emotion to me is pumping your fist and showing excitement. A blank stare is not emotion.

[homer]

I can't believe some really feel he was "showing up" the Cards.

That's because you're a Brewer fan.

[djoctagone]

And who cares if it barley got over

i'm waiting for the hordes to claim the brewers play better in their retro ball & glove/mb caps (or vice versa).

 

evidently, the barley on the current cap gives the brewers home run power, so i'm all for the current uniform.

[ESPNOwen]

Those who say this never happpened in past eras have selective memories. Players from the beginning of baseball have done what Braun has done from time to time. There just wasn't Sportscenter and Baseball Tonight and the Internet for everyone to see it over and over.

Hank Aaron Homers:

Mickey Mantle # 500: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1Y0hKB2dqo

 

Ted Williams: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwogLVGtDa8&feature=related

Ken Boyer WS grand slam: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj2z5L04hqI&feature=related

Kirby Puckett: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y3m_mY02mo&feature=related

 

Babe Ruth (go to the end of the video) watches his go...but he was freakin' Babe Ruth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB1Z-7yDSAY

 

What do these have in common? They all run instead of admire. Act like you've been there.

[lcbj68c]

First of all, again, K-Rod has completed his objective when he "celebrates" and he's showing excitement, not posing. Secondly, why do we keep bringing up what others do and comparing it to what Braun did? It sounds like my son. So and so is allowed to say swear words, and so and so doesn't have to make his bed. Do you want to be like so and so, or do you want to be better than so and so?

How is his objective not over, because he still has to formally run the bases? Ball meets bat, ball is traveling 400+ feet, objective over! And yes, in regards to being a professional athlete, I would love to have the same freedoms as other players and not be restricted, because "he's a rookie, or young player." I don't understand comparing the responsiblities of children to the conduct of grown men.

[lcbj68c]

ESPNOwen wrote:

Babe Ruth (go to the end of the video) watches his go...but he was freakin' Babe Ruth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB1Z-7yDSAY

What do these have in common? They all run instead of admire. Act like you've been there.

So, Babe Ruth gets a pass?

[fondybrewfan]

This was by no means a wall-scraper. It was estimated at 407 feet.

 

Well I for one don't believe it went nearly that far because it looked like it hit in the first row to me.

 

 

(pared back long quote --1992)

[MickeyDavis]

I can't believe some really feel he was "showing up" the Cards.

That's because you're a Brewer fan.

And Cards fans should be upset about their bullpen or an offense that scored exactly one run after the 4th inning in 4 games, not about what Braun did for a couple of seconds.

[Fatter than Joey]

They all run instead of admire. Act like you've been there.

 

I think that everyone would agree if this would have been a 8-0 game and Braun hit it in the 3rd inning, we'd not want to see too much showboating. It was an exciting end to a crazy series. I really don't see a big deal. I do understand the concern about getting around the bases in case that ball doesn't clear the fence, but I would like to think this is an isolated incident. I think Bill Hall earlier this year got caught jogging on a ball that ended up staying in the park.

 

I think the underlying fear/concern people have here is the "bad blood" that may be boiling between the Brewers and Cards -- especially given last year's fiasco. No one wants to see a plunking exchange.

 

The Cardinals can go pound sand. Thank you Ryan Braun.

[ESPNOwen]

ESPNOwen wrote:

Babe Ruth (go to the end of the video) watches his go...but he was freakin' Babe Ruth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB1Z-7yDSAY

What do these have in common? They all run instead of admire. Act like you've been there.

So, Babe Ruth gets a pass?

 

I don't think he does. But he's very dead, so it's difficult to take him to task. Someone get Dionne Warwick in here so that we can contact him.

[Fatter than Joey]

How is his objective not over, because he still has to formally run the bases? Ball meets bat, ball is traveling 400+ feet, objective over!

 

Braun could have ran after he hit the ball and the ball hits the wall -- I think that's what people are concerned about.

[MickeyDavis]

One day Ted Williams will be thawed out so we can ask him what he thinks. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Patrick425]

How is his objective not over, because he still has to formally run the bases? Ball meets bat, ball is traveling 400+ feet, objective over!

He's standing (or walking slowly - same thing), while the ball is in the air. Objective not over. Put your head down and run. Afther the ball has cleared the fence, then get excited.

 

 

So, Babe Ruth gets a pass?

In all fairness. Looking at that video, he did not really come close to "posing" and it appeared he was unsure if it was going to be fair or foul.

 

 

I think that everyone would agree if this would have been a 8-0 game and Braun hit it in the 3rd inning, we'd not want to see too much showboating. It was an exciting end to a crazy series. I really don't see a big deal.

 

Ok, here's another video. Bobby Thompson's shot heard around the world. No posing. He runs and shows excitement. This was to win a championship! Not a series in the middle of the season:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lcbj68c]

Well I for one don't believe it went nearly that far because it looked like it hit in the first row to me.

Now we know it didnt.

[JJHardy7]

I don't consider a batter posing (walking slowly or just standing there..it's bascially still posing) to be a show of emotion. Emotion is something that comes naturally. Posing like that is not a natural thing to do and has to be somewhat thought about. Emotion to me is pumping your fist and showing excitement. A blank stare is not emotion.

 

So now we are defining a persons emotions? Braun's "stare" very well could be his way of showing emotion. I'm not going to start saying what's emotion and what's not. We'll have to get Braun in front of a mic and ask him, "Ryan what is your natural emotion?"

 

The entire discussion over what other teams do is a moot point. It's all about the team you cheer for here. If you're a Cards fan, you might be upset, but who cares? If the Cards make the pitches, the HR never happens. People may want to see no emotion or whatever and that's fine. It just isn't a common thing to hit a GW HR in the 9th inning against a big rival in the middle of a playoff hunt and simply show zero emotion in today's game.

 

The Cardinals can go pound sand. Thank you Ryan Braun.

 

Agreed.

[homer]

Have the Cards even mentioned anything?

[Pioneers3]

I read most of every post...I would like to point out people comparing it to the past...well I have a saying that may be compared to this "Kids today are different than the past because today's parents are different" You can not compare Hank Aaron's era to now. Not saying Hank would showboated, but if there was a 24 hour sports show there would have been more. Players act different today because society allows it.

[MickeyDavis]

Have the Cards even mentioned anything?

Apparently not after the game last night. In reading the game story and notes from the St. Louis paper they talked a lot about the umpiring in the 4th inning and Franklin talked about how he threw the ball well "except for one bad pitch".

[pretendastronaut]

They all run instead of admire. Act like you've been there.

 

I think that everyone would agree if this would have been a 8-0 game and Braun hit it in the 3rd inning, we'd not want to see too much showboating. It was an exciting end to a crazy series. I really don't see a big deal. I do understand the concern about getting around the bases in case that ball doesn't clear the fence, but I would like to think this is an isolated incident. I think Bill Hall earlier this year got caught jogging on a ball that ended up staying in the park.

 

This is pretty well where I stand. It was the moment. I hate how our culture labels someone as a whole, based off one moment only. We already know that other teams, other players, and fans on both sides think Braun is cocky. Personally I don't see it. Braun hustles out of the box on nearly every homer he hits. Last night's homer was a huge homer. Does "baseball etiquette" say he shouldn't have walked out of the box gawking at it, sure, but I don't think he was showing up the other team and I don't think its indicative of him as a player. I think Braun's pimp walk out of the box last season against the Astros was showboating and I think he got talked to and he's not had any real bad examples since then, in my opinion of course.

All and all, I think Braun is labeled as cocky for a couple of instances, including this one, and I don't think that's justified. They guy has been a class act in almost every other aspect I've seen him. He treats the fans and his team with respect, he never brags in interviews and always mentions his teammates success in interviews. I think its horribly unfair to label him as cocky because of something like this.

On the other hand, I think Bill Hall does have more of a problem with standing around gawking at his homers, despite the situation, and yes, there have been times when he's glaring at it and it doesn't actually go out. It makes him look like a fool, but I don't know if it means he's showing up the other team. Had Braun not cleared the wall last night, he would have looked a fool too, but while everyone is debating how far it went out, I don't recall seeing anyone in this thread saying they didn't think it was gone when he hit it. I knew that ball was gone when it came off the bat, and I think most everyone else did too.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

The piety of the Cardinals' makes me sick. This from an organization that protects alcoholics and steroid abuse and they want to lecture us? Please.

 

Here Here!!! LaRussa's schtick last year was disgusting...they are hardly the ones to lecture us. At least some in the local St. Louis press had the balls to call him on it.

 

In general I'm not a huge fan of the watch and stare that Braun & Hall did, but they are young guys that care and delivered HUGE homeruns. We've done it, the Cubs have done it and so have the Cards. We're no better or worse than any of them. As a fan...it's pretty awesome when your own guy does it...not so much when it's done against you.

 

What I get tired of is this holier than thou baseball royalty schtick that the Cards fans tend to portray. My prior memory was Joaquin Andujar...now there's a class act. What about Pujols? You think he's never admired a blast? And then there is LaRussa and his evil twin "Don Tony"...I can't believe he didn't put one in someones ear last night like he has so many times before. How about Ozzie Smith showing off when he did flips at shortstop...hardly anyone would accuse Oz of not being a great baseball ambassador.

[Patrick425]

So now we are defining a persons emotions? Braun's "stare" very well could be his way of showing emotion.

Oh come on. I think there is a reasonable thought that comes to everyone's mind when we talk about someone showing their emotions or getting excited. Standing and admiring your ball flying through the air is not an act of emotion, it's an act of?narcissism.??Is this what you picture when someone tells you about an emotional speech that they heard:

 

 

[lcbj68c]

So now we are defining a persons emotions? Braun's "stare" very well could be his way of showing emotion. I'm not going to start saying what's emotion and what's not. We'll have to get Braun in front of a mic and ask him, "Ryan what is your natural emotion?"

I have to agree. This is really splitting hairs. Walking is the same as standing still in the box? If I didn't watch the game, I'd have thought perhaps he flexed his muscles, laid down his bat, took off his ankle guard, pointed at the pitcher, patted his belly, jumped on each base with both feet, all while the ball bounced off the top of the wall, in the 15th game of the season, in a 12-1 loss in the 3rd inning. Put your head down and run? Are you serious? Celebration comes in many forms and given the many other examples of players today, this was not close to being so negative to the game of baseball. The game of baseball has changed since 1920. Society in general has changed much since 1920. There is very much a "one-up" attitude amongst a lot of people and events. This does nothing to bring down the game of baseball. It wasn't poor sportsmanship. Our children's brains aren't damned forever for watching it. We don't have to play this what if game, as if the entire foundation and tradition of baseball is crumbling to the wayside because he walked the first 5-7 steps while thinking to himself something along the lines of, "Wow, I just did that". Standing in the box, and the pure definition of "pose" and "walking" are two completely different items. Yes, both are showboating, one typically crosses the line, the other doesnt. Taking the situation into context, rather than the face value of the youtube examples posted above is why I dont have a problem with Braun from last night.

[TooLiveBrew]

I loved it, and I'm not normally all about that stuff.

 

Same here.

 

 

i can go forever with this list becouse every soccer player in the world has now a personal way to celebrate a scoring. I know there's a ocean (well, actually there is..) between soccer and baseball, but i have no problem at all with (baseball) players posing a bit and/or showing excitement

 

That really made me chuckle. I think the celebrations you've described & the passion are part of what makes football 'the beautiful game'. The players do so much hard work, and a goal is something that is so relatively rare... it's just human nature to feel elated when you break through. No matter how many HR a guy hits in a season, it really is a similarly rare & special occurance. When you add in that it was a come-from behind, late-inning blast to jump ahead of one of your rivals & biggest competitors (to complete a 4-game sweep at their house!!!), I'd definitely feel pretty dang good about it too.

 

 

I know for a fact that if the Brewers were swept by the Cubs and Ramirez did the same thing this board would be up in arms.

 

Well, he did that. Last year. I don't recall the board being up in arms. In any event, I would most certainly not be up in arms. My feelings on this don't have anything to do with what team Braun is on. Sure, it makes it that much sweeter to do it against StL, but I just feel differently about it than you do homer.

 

 

Have the Cards even mentioned anything?

 

That's the funny thing... no. It's the fans (some of StL & Mil.) that are up in arms. Unless the Cards' players have strangely done a complete 180 from what they told their color commentator after game 2, they didn't feel any slight. He asked a bunch of the players, and the color commentator said they had no problem with Hall's gazing. The players agree with each other; fans seem to be the ones that think it's despicable. That makes sense -- the guys that go out there & have to compete against one another understand how good doing what Ryan did feels.

 

 

-- And can we please stop talking about how it barely got out? The home park noted it at 407 or 410 feet. Visiting teams typically see their HRs fly 'shorter' rather than 'farther' when it comes to the measurements. This was a bomb. The TV broadcast didn't do it justice -- it looked like it was hit almost as high as it was far.

 

Can anyone that was at the game give us a description of what it looked like? Jhart?

[lcbj68c]

Oh come on. I think there is a reasonable thought that comes to everyone's mind when we talk about someone showing their emotions or getting excited. Standing and admiring your ball flying through the air is not an act of emotion, it's an act of?narcissism.??Is this what you picture when someone tells you about an emotional speech that they heard:

The fact that you are talking about this and engaging in a discussion over a lengthy time shows that his silence and slow walk had some type of profound emotional change in you. So the answer, is that speech emotional, that it draws out emotion, has to be yes. The question is, does the speech bring out a negative or positive emotion in you. Obviously for the students, it was likely negative, but it could still be described as emotional. It's the same with the Braun homerun. He certainly had emotion. The emotions displayed were self-ability, narcisstic, and egotistical. But to me, that's an okay emotion of an adult to have once in a while given the context of the game.

[Postseason2006]

Have the Cards even mentioned anything?

 

Nope, I think we have people looking to complain about anything. People there are worse problems in the world than a guy admiring a homerun that went out by 15-20 feet. Sheesh.