What to do with J.J. Hardy - he's putting together a great year

[ELCABALLO45]

I think Hardy playing 2nd is out of the question honestly.

 

Why would he agree to play 2nd for us, when some team will pay him ALOT of money to play short?

[Sheets4theHOF]

Like others have said these are good problems to have. There's no hurry though. Let the big bats in huntsville prove it in nashville and then we'll see what's what.

 

I think JJ may end up sticking around though. With a lot the money off the books next year i think Melvin might be more inclined to keep the current core (Braun-done already, Hart, Hardy, Weeks--assuming the current turnaround is for real) together as much as possible and continue to use the farm system as trade ammo.

 

I really love the flexiblity Melvin is going to have this next offseason.

[craigharmann]

Remember about 7-10 years ago, when we had to struggle to put crappy players on the field? This is much better. Having too many potentially good players is an excellent problem and will continue to build this team up, as you will have to produce to crack the starting lineup, not just because there's no one better.

[PrimeTime955]

Like others have said these are good problems to have. There's no hurry though. Let the big bats in huntsville prove it in nashville and then we'll see what's what.

 

I think JJ may end up sticking around though. With a lot the money off the books next year i think Melvin might be more inclined to keep the current core (Braun-done already, Hart, Hardy, Weeks--assuming the current turnaround is for real) together as much as possible and continue to use the farm system as trade ammo.

 

I really love the flexiblity Melvin is going to have this next offseason.

I'm not calling you out specifically, but I've heard a lot of people say that lately and it kind of irks me. I don't have the the time to look up the contracts exacty but looking brief, you have to realize the raises that some of our players are due to receive.

If we keep Cameron, he goes up like 4 mil

Prince is judging my Ryan howard due for like a 7-9 million increase

Billy is due like 2 million more

Corey Hart will get a huge increase probably like 4 million

Suppan is due like 4 million more

Hardy will get another mil or 2

 

Along with the money it's going to cost to reconstruct the bullpen again.

[JohnBriggs12]

I think initially, like Braun, Gamel will get a shot at 3B. I also expect Hall to move back to CF when that happens. After a year or two, Fielder is the most likely to depart, allowing Gamel to move to first. When that happens, probably in 2010 or 2011, Hardy moves to 3B, Escobar settles in at SS.

 

There's quite of bit of possibilities. Trades anywhere could change things.

[pogokat]

Obviously Hardy showed more patience, which projects better, but other than that, their offensive stats are quite similar. Couple that with the fact that Escobar by all accounts is the superior defender (right now!), I'm not sure it's reasonable to say that Escobar will never be as good as J.J. Hardy.

Having watched both guys move up the chain, I am more impressed with the way JJ progressed than Alcides has...

 

however, the main reason i think JJ is better than Alcides will be with the stick is that JJ has vastly exceeded expectations in the majors...no one ever thought he'd hit 20+ homers a year and no one ever thought he was going to be a .290 hitter...so, he's actually advanced a good deal from that season in AA

 

Now I'm not saying that Alcides can't continue to improve, it just seems unlikely that he will advance in the same way as hardy

 

and for the recrd, Hardy's d was considered top notch all the way to the majors as well...that was part of the rationale for only giving him 335 ab's in A ball

[eanelson4]

Escobar is 21. There is no sense in rushing him up to the Majors. We should NOT trade Rickie in the offseason on the hopes that Escobar's AA performance translates to the Majors. He would need to show me solid performance at AAA, or at least something decent in cup of coffee in the Majors before I would be willing to trade away a nice chip like Rickie Weeks.

[joepepsi]

I think it's all too much unecessary tampering. It's sort of old school Brewers thinking: let's get rid of this guy while he's good and rush a prospect to the majors before he's ready.

 

Competitive major league teams deep in talent keep guys in the minors until they are ready to contribute. Weeks, Hardy, Braun, and Fielder were all rushed to the majors to various extents. I wouldn't care if Escobar or Gamel spent two seasons in AAA. Personally I think Escobar is being bragged up by the organization as a future trading chip.

 

Admittedly it's early in his career, but Hardy is putting up seasons that resemble Tejada's early years in the majors. I don't think you de-value that kind of production by moving it to a less important defensive position. You wouldn't move Tejada to 3rd in his prime to make room for Julio Lugo.

[Oldcity]

I'd like to see Escobar spend all of next season in AAA. He's still young. He's hit for a nice average, but isn't walking and isn't showing power.

[Legacy25GT]

If I had to predict next season's opening day roster, I'd say:

Gwynn CF

Hardy SS

Braun LF

Fielder 1B

Hart RF

Hall 3B

Weeks 2B

Kendall C

Pitcher

 

Maybe they bring up Escobar and/or Gamel mid-season. But the 2010 lineup is the harder one to predict, but I'd guess:

Escobar SS

Hardy 2B

Gamel RF

Braun LF

Fielder 1B

Hart CF

Hall 3B

Salome C maybe

Pitcher

 

Problem is I don't know where that leaves Rickie Weeks... maybe he's traded.... maybe he's on the bench.... maybe Fielder is traded (he's destined to be a DH anyway) and Gamel is at 1st with Gwynn in the OF..... maybe Hall is traded or on the bench and JJ moves to 3rd.

 

I think it comes down to what you want to value more... If you want to build a strong defensive team, Fielder and Weeks are the odd men out, and you have an infield (left to right) of Hall, Escobar, Hardy, and Gamel, with Braun, Gwynn & Hart in the OF. If you value offense more, then Gwynn is out, but then its a much tougher decision because you now have to decide if Weeks has the potential that everyone has been saying he has, but hasn't shown.

[hauser42]

Hardy has another year at SS, Escobar is going to get next year at AAA to make sure he is ready to make that jump. Hardy would be great at 2B if he agrees to move over there, his arm wold help in turning many double plays.

[jjfanec]

Is the hesitation to put Hardy at 3B because of Gamel coming up? Or is it because he wont hit for a 3B? I understand giving Gamel every chance to stick on 3B, but Hardy's arm would definitely play at 3B. There has been some stuff said that he wont hit like a 3B should. Right now Hardy would be 5th for NL 3B for OPS (behind Chipper, Wright, Glaus, and Encarncion). He is ahead of Aramis Ramirez. His projected line for the rest of this year gives him 24 home runs. His walk to K rate is good. I think he could definitely stick at 3B.

[Legacy25GT]

Is the hesitation to put Hardy at 3B because of Gamel coming up? Or is it because he wont hit for a 3B? I understand giving Gamel every chance to stick on 3B, but Hardy's arm would definitely play at 3B. There has been some stuff said that he wont hit like a 3B should. Right now Hardy would be 5th for NL 3B for OPS (behind Chipper, Wright, Glaus, and Encarncion). He is ahead of Aramis Ramirez. His projected line for the rest of this year gives him 24 home runs. His walk to K rate is good. I think he could definitely stick at 3B.

You're right... Hardy has the best arm of any non-pitcher on the team, so that long throw from 3B should be cake for JJ. And who says that a specific position on the field has to hit for power more than another position. Is there some strategic defensive advantage to having your third baseman hitting 30 HR's? The answer is no, especially since the brewers have other sources for power. JJ has been able to knock the ball out, but I still don't expect it from him... he doesn't really have the raw power that Braun, Fielder & Gamel have... JJ pretty much needs a fastball to get the ball out of the park (though I think his dinger yesterday was on a breaking ball).

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I think Hardy playing 2nd is out of the question honestly.

 

Why would he agree to play 2nd for us, when some team will pay him ALOT of money to play short?

Because he would want to be on a winning team. Plus, if we gave him a good paying contract, I don't think he will care where he plays. There's a chance you are correct, but it's not out of the question.

 

You're right... Hardy has the best arm of any non-pitcher on the team

So when our bullpen is thin in the 17th inning, should we bring Hardy in as the pitcher? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/tongue.gif

 

 

[TooLiveBrew]

The issue with Hardy is that he is a fan favorite and it's going to be hard to let him go. He continues to improve as a hitter and has played great defense this year despite his limited range.

 

I think the Brewers are in a great position with Hardy. I love it when my team has a problem of 'too many good players'. The return should we deal J.J. would be very, very good. I agree that it's a slight to Hardy to ask him to move off SS when he's not only not a liability there, but a plus (imo). If the decision comes down to having to put J.J. at 2B & he doesn't want to lower his value like that, I think we should be fair to the guy & trade him somewhere he can play SS. If he'd move to 3B or 2B, gravy.

 

The best-case scenario imo would be Hall continuing to mash enough to raise his value in the offseason, flip Hall (even if it means eating some of the contract), slide J.J. to 3B, if Alcides is ready let him man SS (only if he's ready -- I agree I'd like to see him play a bit more in the minors), and keep Weeks at 2B.

[RickieDROPSbombs]

Believe me Weeks and Fielder are more likely to be in the Opening Day lineup of 2010 than Hall and Gwynn.

[1992casey]

The previous two posts that have strayed from the Hardy situation are fine, but from here on out, let's try to make sure that posts in this thread have at least something to do with J.J or players somehow related to his situation. (In other words, Gwynn isn't very relevant. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif)

 

If you'd like to talk about the roster in general a couple years from now, this old thread can be resurrected:

 

Your 2010 Brewers?

[homer]

Is Hardy's value really going to drop that much going to 2B? We're talking defensive value right? Because as of today he's 2nd in MLB among SS in OPS and would be 4th among all 2B - not that big a difference.

[TooLiveBrew]

Iirc since SS is valued as the most important defensive position, he'd stand to make a significant amount more there. He wouldn't exactly be going hungry by moving to 2B, though. There's a bit to be worried about in pairing Hardy's avg. to below-avg. range with Prince on the right side of the diamond, though (I'd imagine)

[RickieDROPSbombs]

Yeah JJ would still be a good second baseman, but I still believe Rickie Weeks has a big part of the Brewers future.

[cwolf2012]

Hardy would be better suited as a 3B in my opinion, but his offensive production would cease to be top tier for his position, and be about league average. That is, if he doesn't continue to hit at his 2008 pace. At .296/.361/.490, he'd still be in the top 10 or so. I personally don't expect him to hit like that for his career, though.

[jjfanec]

Hardy would be better suited as a 3B in my opinion, but his offensive production would cease to be top tier for his position, and be about league average. That is, if he doesn't continue to hit at his 2008 pace. At .296/.361/.490, he'd still be in the top 10 or so. I personally don't expect him to hit like that for his career, though.

Hardy's current OPS would be good for 7 in MLB amongst 3b. His BA would be 3rd. Maybe he won't keep up at this current pace but he could easily be top 10 in all of baseball at his position which would be pretty darn good.

 

[And That]

If you think J.J. is going to be about an 800 OPS guy, that's almost the definition of an average 3B the past few years. If you think it's going to be 850, that's a little above average, but still not top tier. IMO, he would be a competent third baseman from an offensive perspective, but third base would never be a position of offensive strength with him there.

 

Theoretically the impact of his lack of range at shortstop would be lessened at third though haven't a number of shortstop said that they feel much less comfortable at third base because the ball gets at them more quickly?

[Darnell Junior]

I think the issue of money for JJ moving over is irrelevant. JJ would be signed to a long term contract before the move, assuming Alcides isn't up by opening day next year. So he'd be signed for SS money anyways. As far as production goes it's already been said that he'd be an above average third baseman offensively (and definately defensively).

 

That being said, I'd much rather move JJ to third for a couple reasons. One, the knock on JJ defensively is that he lacks range. He has a plus arm and a plus glove. Second base is a position that values range probably more than any other position. Arm strength is also not a necessity at that spot. Third base suits JJ's strengths much more than 2nd base. The other reason is I'd rather keep Weeks long-term than Hall, and I don't think Gamel will stick at 3B. I'd love to see a Gamel, Weeks, Escobar, Hardy infield for the next half dozen years or so starting in 2010.

[Oldcity]

If the Brewers prefer Escobar to Hardy at shortstop long-term, they'd just as soon trade Hardy rather than move him to another position. His greatest value is at short, and someone would pay a lot for him.