Is it time we give Bill Hall his apology?

[hauser42]

Now we are suppose to give an apology for a guy that has struggled all season, becaue he hit some late game homeruns?? People only recall Hall's ESPN homeruns so they think he is the man once again. Yes Hall has had his fair share of hits over the last 15 games or so. Other night he still looked lost at the plate when it came to the at bat prior to the HR.

 

While is defense has been fine I will wait a while to see if Hall as really got it together or if this is just a hot streak and he goes back down again.

[bjkrautk]

Hall hits HRs in back-to-back games, and now all of his flaws should be overlooked. Bill Hall fandom in a nutshell.

 

Even one of the two HRs exemplified the problem with Hall....just because you can pull a pitch on the outside of the plate for a HR 1% of the time....doesn't mean you should try to do it every AB.

 

His batting average has gone down in 4 consecutive seasons.

His OBP has declined in each of the past 3 seasons.

He's just now brought his OPS up to where it was last year (when we all thought he underachieved).

 

One hot month does not make up for a full season. If he can bring his BA/OBP up to respectable levels by the end of the year....then we'll start talking about an apology.

[Thurston Fluff]

I had no problem with hall when he asked for a trade. Part of it had to be his not wanting to get jerked around without standing up for himself. He has always done what was best for the team even if it wasn't always the best for himself. After all the switches and work to do as asked he then was the one who lost playing time even though he wasn't the only one who was struggling. I understood why he was the one who lost playing time but that doesn't mean I thought Bill shouldn't have been a bit miffed by it.

How he handled himself after his initial emotional response was as professional and worthy of admiration as any player I've seen. He settled in, encouraged his teammates, started to enjoy when he did play instead of lament the days he didn't, worked hard and improved to where Ned is comfortable playing him more. I'm happy for him and am as big a fan of his as I am of any Brewer at any point in the team's history. I don't feel like I owe him an apology because I never felt anything negative about him. The only thing I do is gain more respect for him as a person, player and his professionalism every day.

[jjfanec]

Hall reminds me a lot of Jenkins the past couple years. People were/are polarized by both. There were people who wanted Jenkins platooned and felt like he was not nearly as good as many thought. They thought his lack of desire to platoon showed that he was blinded to the stats. However, a good group of people still loved Jenkins because he was at one time a really good player. They felt like he deserved respect because he was the face of the team when they were bad for so many years.

These two groups are the same with Hall. I am in the group that thinks he isn't that good and his complaining about the platooning and asking to be traded was wrong no matter how long he had been here. I get the people in the other camps point but to say he got jerked around by the team only the looking at half the equation. He got jerked around because he was not producing as much, he was not a great CF, he was/is not as good as JJ (I know some will disagree with this), and he has done nothing to show people should switch positions so he can stay where he is at.

I am really glad to see Hall perform right now but I feel as though i did with Jenkins that he can help carry a team for a month but in a month he will be back hitting the way that helped him have an OBP under .300. I am not going to apologize for getting down on a guy who does not get OBP over .300 and was batting around .100 vs RHP yet still did not seem to understand why he was getting platooned and help out of games.

[Thurston Fluff]

still did not seem to understand why he was getting platooned and help out of games.

 

I think he did understand but felt he should have been given the same leeway Hardy and Weeks got. Neither of them were really any better at the time. When JJ got the shortstop job back Hall was coming off a 35 hr, team MVP season and played decent defense as well. His reward was losing his job at short to a guy who had done nothing as of yet in the majors. He took all that in stride. I think the platooning this season was more or less the straw the broke the camel's back. He felt he had to say something just so they know he wasn't going to just be used and abused without saying a word ever. He said his peace then went about playing hard like always. I don't begrudge him for saying something when he did. Sometimes a man has to stand up for himself. He did so only after a rather long line of less than perfect treatment by the Brewers. I have no doubt both Doug and Ned agree that circumstances made Bill the sacrificial lamb for the betterment of the team more often than was reasonable to ask without some sort of speaking up on his part.

[jjfanec]

I think he did understand but felt he should have been given the same leeway Hardy and Weeks got. Neither of them were really any better at the time.

He was hitting RHP pitching at a near .100 clip. Neither Hardy nor Weeks was that bad. Hall was striking out over 1/4 of the time as well and he did not hit well all of last year. He was not walking at all, so all he was providing was the occasional home run and that is something Branyan could give too at the time. Hardy did not have a good enough back up to get benched. I will give you Weeks but again there was not anyone to consistently bench him for. Hall's numbers were terrible, not just bad, against RHP so benching him before anyone else made sense. At least Weeks was getting on base almost a third of the time.

 

"less than perfect treatment by the Brewers"

What were they supposed to do? They felt like Hardy was the better shortstop and that Hall could play CF. It didn't work so they put him back in the IF but for the past two years he has not hit will with exception of a couple home run binges he went on. I don't know how the team is supposed to treat a guy like that but I don't think they should have treated him differently. If you are not better than other guys (ie Braun, Hardy) you will get moved around. He should be thankful he still had a starting job the way he was hitting.

 

[joepepsi]

Since the All Star break Billy is 4 for 19, with 7 strikeouts. Branyan is 3 for 12, 2k's. Hall has a great flair for the dramatic, but I'd still like to see Branyan playing against most righties.

[CheezWizHed]

Actually wasn't this the plan from the start when they called Branyon up?

1) Have each push the other. Competition is good.

2) Ride the hot bat. Branyon was hot at first, Billy is heating up now (Although he is still pulling outside pitches, sometimes successfully).

 

The sum of the parts give a better third baseman than either alone.

 

Winning teams don't baby egos.

[Bucky Rules]

No... we don't owe Bill Hall an apology. He vented his frustration thru the press via his agent by demanding a trade - which is his right. But, he's got to be completely naive if he thinks there's going to be absolutely no consequences from Brewer fans when you request a trade. Some fans got upset about it and booed him. They're cheering him now. There's no need for an apology. He's a big boy.

[Thurston Fluff]

What were they supposed to do? They felt like Hardy was the better shortstop and that Hall could play CF.

 

I'm not disagreeing with what they did. It just turns out the same guy is the one whose career is bearing the brunt of it. He is a pro who wants to establish himself and has his own best interest to look out for as well as the teams. I don't have to blame the Brewers for how they handled them but I won't blame Hall for finally pointing they are messing with his career as well. You may not care about that as much as he does but there does come a time when someone who sees the path he's put on is going to supply him with millions less dollars. I will not criticize a guy for pointing out he has done everything asked of him and wants to make sure his interests are not totally lost in the exchange. That would only be fair for the team oriented attitude he has always had here.

 

He was hitting RHP pitching at a near .100 clip. Neither Hardy nor Weeks was that bad.

 

I didn't see month by month breakdowns for each side of the plate but here are the totals form the first two months.

 

Hardy

April 628 OPS, 317 OBP

May 701 OPS, 350 OBP

 

Weeks

April 690 OPS, 333 OBP

May 696 OPS, 320 OBP

 

Hall

April 690 OPS, 333 OBP

May 696 OPS, 320 OBP

 

Since all of them played against both handed hitters either Weeks and Hardy played very poorly against LH relative to Hall or they all struggled against RH to some degree.

[silversurferr]

No fan owes Bill an apology for Bill and his agent's behavior. However, many on this board should apologize for their assertion that Hall was washed up and sucky. Heck, he can still improve in the field and at the plate (unlike Branyan). I am happy with a good fielding third baseman that will hit .250-25-80, who also has a reasonably affordable contract. I think that's what Bill will be in the next two years, if left alone. (He recently played just his 162nd game at third base!)

[GamelToe]

He has greatly underachieved. He doesn't deserve to start everyday no matter how many game winning home runs he hits.

[TooLiveBrew]

I have posted on this board that Bill Hall would be back and he is at least for now. Long season to go.

You knew he wouldn't post a .650-ish OPS all season long? What lotto numbers should I play tonight?!

The way he requested a trade was professional

Gimme a break. That was the definition of unprofessional.

[sheethead]

He has greatly underachieved. He doesn't deserve to start everyday no matter how many game winning home runs he hits.

Even if he hits say, 40 game winning home runs? If there is one thing we know about Bill Hall, its that he is streaky (like most players). When he is in the zone he is a monster. When he's not in the zone, he still tries to hit home runs. This doesn't help him hide his streaks, because you won't see him slapping a bloop over the 1st baseman's head very often. He is what he is. I just hope he can find the zone in late September/October.

[jjfanec]

Hardy

April 628 OPS, 317 OBP

May 701 OPS, 350 OBP

 

Weeks

April 690 OPS, 333 OBP

May 696 OPS, 320 OBP

 

Hall

April 690 OPS, 333 OBP

May 696 OPS, 320 OBP

 

Since all of them played against both handed hitters either Weeks and Hardy played very poorly against LH relative to Hall or they all struggled against RH to some degree.

Your numbers for Hall seem incorrect. Baseball-reference has his March/April numbers as .275 OBP and .761 OPS. His May numbers .322 OBP and .656 OPS. He is currently hitting .175 BA with a .231 OBP and a .571 OPS vs RHP and since he hasnt faced much RHP in the past two months those numbers are pretty accurate for the start of the year with a recent increase. Weeks has held a higher OBP vs RHP all year.

 

Hall hit some early home runs and he brings good power to the table. But he striking more than both other players so his being sat down with a lefty power hitter there to spell him cant be argued. Hardy broke out of his slump when given the chance even with his dramatic home runs of late Hall's numbers since the break are not good. We can agree to disagree though.

 

[sheethead]

I have no doubt both Doug and Ned agree that circumstances made Bill the sacrificial lamb for the betterment of the team more often than was reasonable to ask without some sort of speaking up on his part.

 

For $5 million, I will be a sacrifical lamb in worse ways than Bill has been, and I promise I won't say a word! Any player making $5 million to suck should keep their mouth shut. See Gagne. Now there is a $10 million player sucking, and you don't hear him whining about not closing anymore.

 

No apology. I just convinced myself he deserved the booing.

[homer]

I don't see why lots of money automatically makes these guys immune to feeling bad when they get booed.

[sheethead]

Getting booed was his own fault. He wasn't getting booed until he opened him mouth and threw up all over his agent and the media. This is to what I was referring when I discussed the money. That I would shut up.

 

As to not be taken out of context, I was assuming the booing is what we would owe Bill Hall an apology for. He was booed mainly because of his mouth, not his suckitude.

[homer]

He was booed plenty before his agent spoke up. He was booed more afterwards.

[logan82]

Hardy and Weeks didn't have a lefty with big league experience playing their position in AAA. Like Hall or not, Branyan should be expected to put up better numbers against RHP.

 

What a player does in any one game or over several games shouldn't be used to determine what he is going to do in future games.

[datrain711]

when is the "Is it time we give Ned Yost an apology" thread going to start?

(I just ducked) http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Fatter than Joey]

When he tenders his resignation.

[datrain711]

When he tenders his resignation.

 

I knew that you'd somehow be the first to post after me, even if you weren't near a computer http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Bernman23]

Branyan had been strug-gul-ling before Yost demolished the platoon. He was 0-7 with one walk his last 3 games in June and is hitting a putrid .167/.485 in July. Understandably I think Yost is just figuring the same ol' Russell is back that has gotten him jettisoned from 7 different teams during his 10-year career. You might as well sell that stock before it plummets even more. I hardly think he's being treated less unfairly by us than he has by anyone else. We're one of the few teams actually still willing to give him a big league roster spot.

 

Hall is owed somewhat of an apology. He controlled his own destiny at the plate so he brought on some of the criticism, but he has made a lot of sacrifices and has been a phenomenal representative for the Brewers throughout his career. I think all the guy wanted was to be shown is a little leniency in exchange. Hall's monetary compensation is really a secondary issue. I think he should be applauded if anything for not being satisfied with a paycheck like Adrian Beltre probably would. The guy is trying and wants to be regarded as a valuable member of the team and community.

[TooLiveBrew]

Branyan had been strug-gul-ling before Yost demolished the platoon. He was 0-7

 

0-7... that's an acceptable reason to "demolish the platoon"? Branyan's D is better, and he's a far better option against RHP.

 

 

Hall is owed somewhat of an apology.

 

Again, Hall didn't even have the guts to come out and say he should be traded. He did so through his agent. He is owed no apology. Something tells me the millions of dollars he's owed will do just fine.

 

 

I think he should be applauded if anything for not being satisfied with a paycheck like Adrian Beltre probably would.

 

You mean the Adrian Beltre that's posting a line of .330/.432/.762 in one of the most extreme pitchers' parks in MLB, and playing arguably the best defense at 3B of anyone in MLB?