Does Suppan deserve a spot in the rotation?

[rluzinski]

I kind of fall in end's camp. I don't see a huge difference between McClung and Suppan right now, so I'd rather just keep Suppan in the rotation and hope to unload him in the off season.

 

The irony is, the day after he was signed, I was hoping that he'd perform well enough to be dumped in the 08-09 off season. Not looking good.

[DougJones43]

I don't see a huge difference between McClung and Suppan right now

What about McClung's ability to strike batters out at a much higher rate?

[phxMILWfan]

I don't see a huge difference between McClung and Suppan right now

What about McClung's ability to strike batters out at a much higher rate?

Really? You don't see a huge difference between McClung and Suppan? Have you been watching?

Suppan, 33 year old soft tosser 4 quality starts in his last 10. 4.80 era 1.60 whip

McClung 27 year old hard throwing, 5 quality starts in his last 10. 4.35 era 1.40 whip Despite being Yosted. He started pitching well when his roll changed to starter, He's young and has potential and is being paid 750,000 this year versus Suppans 8,250,000. So tell us again how they are virtually the same player.

[jeffy]

I'm sure this has been touched upon in the vent thread but I applaud Yost for not bailing out Suppan yet again and destroying our bullpen for a week or so.

 

McClung could potentially have pitched most or all of the rest of that game, since he has been starting. CC and Sheets are pitching the next two games, so it is extremely unlikely that a middle/long reliever will be needed prior to Wednesday. There was no need to leave Suppan out there to give up 7 runs.

 

Among Suppan, Bush, Mclung (not to mention Villanueva) it's a toss-up to me as to which two should be starting. Suppan will get his starts the rest of the way based on his past late season and playoff history.

[bklynbrewcrew]

I dont like Suppan or McClung but if I have to choose one I would keep Suppan in the rotation. McClung throws too many pitches and cant be expected to go more than 5 innings per start. Suppan while inconsistent does give us 7 innings every few starts. I would be happy to trade McClung for a better bullpen arm if possible.

[kmcasper23]

I am torn on this one. On one hand Suppan is a veteran and has proven to be a gamer in the post-season so part of me thinks he'll pitch his way out of this funk. On the other hand he is pitching very poorly right now and it is tough to trot him out every five days right now. I actually have a bad feeling in games he is pitching right now.

 

Realistically though they have to lie in the bed they made with him. They won't be able to trade him with that salary so they will just have to ride him out for the next two years. In games that CC, Sheets, and Parra pitch do not require much from the bullpen. When Bush, McClung or Suppan are pitching they should be on a short leash. When Suppan loaded the bases McClung should have been getting ready to come in and when the score got to 4-3 in the 5th, Suppan should have been pulled for McClung. That is the way that Yost should be treating his 4th and 5th starters, when they get in trouble take them out.

[JohnBriggs12]

While I totally understand the feelings many have toward Suppan, like kmcasper23 says, they did make a huge committment to this guy so I don't expect any changes.

 

On a hopeful note, he was bad in June 07 (7.68 ERA) and July 07 (5.29) before he came on down the stretch last August (3.90) and September (3.86). I'm sure that Yost and company are counting on a similar finish for him.

 

But Yost has to realize that some days he doesn't have it and when he doesn't he gets hit hard so it's pointless to sit there at let him fritter away a close game.

[rluzinski]

Crap. McClung has red hair and Suppan has brown hair. I guess I was silly for saying they were roughly the same. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif. I was talking about expected performance. Specifically, runs/start and length of start. What do people honestly think are reasonable ERA projections for both, going forward? This reminds my of that Bush thread from a couple months ago.

[monty57]

Yesterday's game was the first game I've turned off early in years. Not because of how Suppan pitched, but because Yost refused to put McClung in for him. I hate the "5th starter platoon" and if Yost is afraid to pitch McClung for 4-5 innings around when he should normally start the game, then I hate it even more. That said, using Suppan's past month or so isn't really a good way to judge him. He was obviously hurt, and I believe that Melvin / Yost asked Suppan to start games even though he was injured because they knew CC would be on board soon. I think you have to take the 2-3 games prior to the DL stint out of the equation, as it has to be pretty hard to pitch with a sore right elbow. Not that using 1/3 of a season to judge a player is good in any case.

 

Russ, I too remember the many threads at the time of Suppan's signing. Most posters who disliked the signing mentioned that Suppan's contract would be a big reason we wouldn't be able to afford to re-sign Sheets. I'd have to say at this time that it looks like those posters are correct.

[secondsith]

...On one hand Suppan is a veteran and has proven to be a gamer in the post-season so part of me thinks he'll pitch his way out of this funk.

 

But if he can't bring the same kind of "gamer" mentality when the team is in the thick of a pennant race and every game is starting to bring that playoff atmosphere, can you count on him for the playoffs? I hope that the teams decisions are not based on a playoff performances from 3 years ago, but then again it is Ned. If the brewers do end up making the playoffs and Suppan has not made any progression towards being effective, how could they possibly trust him pitching in a playoff game? To me it would be too much of a risk to put him out there after his recent string of sub-par starts.

[T B0NE 10]

I don't want to give up on Suppan be he has been terrible. I mean that last game really got me as thats a game we usually win. A 4-1 game, thats a great spot to be in as a pitcher. The thing is, I think Suppan, Bush, and McClung are all on the same level, so we aren't really gaining much I think. And Villanueva seems like the only guy I trust in the entire bullpen, and I can't imagine what'd it be like if he started again. I don't know that much about the farm system, but is there any decent arms in the minors?

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

My preference is still Suppan...that is if he is truly healthy. His last starts before the DL were terrible because he was hurt. He was pitching slightly better than his career averages before that. With the exception of Blum (granted, he should have been out of there for that second HR), he wasn't getting hit that hard yesterday. If Hart or Weeks make those plays or if they could field that bunt, it may not pile on like that. I'm not saying he's CC or Sheets, but he is an adaquate 4/5 starter. He also pitches much better later in the year, and he's been in the thick of it there before.

[datrain711]

I understand that his contract is going to give him a bigger leash than some other pitchers, but now is the time for the Crew to start exploring other possibilities.

[biedergb]

This is who jeff Suppan is. I lived in St. Louis from '03 - '05 and watched him a bunch in the '04 and '05 years. He would have the 7 inning 5 hit 1 ER masterpiece, then follow up with an ugly game, then a couple of average outings, then be on a roll in a game (usually against the Reds or Astros) and get a big lead, then nearly give it up or give it up. Then in Sept/Oct he transforms himself into Cy Young.

 

That being said, two of his past 10 performances have to be his worst since his early days. So he has obviously regressed. I'd give him a couple of starts with a short leash in August, and if he can't do it then, its time to put him in the 'pen as the long relief guy.

[naivin]

So Dave Bush has had a good month or two at the same time Suppan is having a bad month or two - including having to go on the DL, and suddenly giving him Suppan's spot in the rotation is some sort of no-brainer? How come nobody made this argument two months ago? Oh wait, people did..only at that time it was that Bush didn't belong in the rotation.

 

As for Suppan, I am not a big fan, and I have no idea if he will come around, but when's the last time he pitched well in June or July, or pitched poorly in August and September?

[Fear The Chorizo]

I do like the flexibility that having 2 guys (Villy and McClung/Bush) able to go 3+ innings in relief gives the Brewers. The problem is that it's really going to screw with the continuity of the starting rotation and the bullpen, especially if Yost is stubborn with platooning Bush/McClung while Suppan continues to pitch worse that either of them. I think a decision has to be made after Bush and Suppan's next starts as to what 5 pitchers are going to be the starters, at home and on the road. As it stands right now, two starting spots are being questioned/messed with due to the "platoon" and with Suppan stinking on ice over the past few months.

 

Yost needs to keep Bush in the rotation as the #4, set McClung up in that long relief role, and give Suppan a couple more starts to see if he can right his ship. I think the Brewers are still going to need a few spot starts by McClung to give Parra some rest on his innings workload, so it's not like he's going to get mothballed in the bullpen.

[naivin]

What exactly is it in the histories of Jeff Suppan, Dave Bush and Seth McClung that leads people to believe that Bush (in particular) and/or McClung are better options for the remainder of teh season than Jeff Suppan?

[chinabob99]

What exactly is it in the histories of Jeff Suppan, Dave Bush and Seth McClung that leads people to believe that Bush (in particular) and/or McClung are better options for the remainder of teh season than Jeff Suppan?

 

The fact that both Bush and McClung have a better ERA, WHIP, and k/bb ratio this year than Suppan?

[BrewCrewForever]

What exactly is it in the histories of Jeff Suppan, Dave Bush and Seth McClung that leads people to believe that Bush (in particular) and/or McClung are better options for the remainder of teh season than Jeff Suppan?

The fact that both Bush and McClung have a better ERA, WHIP, and k/bb ratio this year than Suppan?

Thank you Chinabob, couldn't have said it better myself. They have both been much better then Suppan. I know Suppan is a vet and he is paid a lot and all that but he is not performing. If we are "going for it" lets have the best guys out there.

 

[naivin]

So since his proposed removal from the rotation was based on a handful of bad starts (a couple of which he was likely injured), does he deserve a contract extension after the last couple?

[fondybrewfan]

He got lucky in his start against the Braves. He was getting absolutely pounded but everything they hit was right at someone. He easily could have given up 5 or more runs that game, it was an amazing feat that he didn't give up any. I want a couple more good starts like he had against the Reds before I am prepared to say he is better than McClung at this point

[Invader3K]

Looks like Suppan is doing well to me right now. All that matters is results at this point, and he's getting them. If he continues pitching well down the stretch, he'll be (basically) worth his contract.

[dadofandrew]

Suppan, Gagne, and Mota have been as effective as any pitcher not named CC of late.

 

Who would have ever thought that a small sample would not be the best way to judge a pitcher's worth?http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[BrewCrewForever]

So since his proposed removal from the rotation was based on a handful of bad starts (a couple of which he was likely injured), does he deserve a contract extension after the last couple?

Short answer no. He has had a couple of good starts, I'm sure we will get the real Soup next time around.

 

[DougJones43]

Suppan, Gagne, and Mota have been as effective as any pitcher not named CC of late.

 

Who would have ever thought that a small sample would not be the best way to judge a pitcher's worth?http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

Let me make sure I got this. Point out that they've been pitching well "of late" and then make a small sample crack? Oh the irony...

 

Anyway, Suppan is still a fringe pitcher in my opinion (based on a lot more than a small sample) who is a lock to stay in the rotation because of his contract. If contracts weren't an issue, I'd still like to see McClung because his ability to strike batters out is a big deal due to the Brewers bad infield defense.

 

Also, what "large sample" did you use to judge that Mota is an effective pitcher?