Let's show Cameron some respect

[monty57]

Mike Cameron has received a lot of flak this year from fans and the media. I think most of it comes from him being miscast as a #2 hitter earlier in the season, and people believing that just because he's a CF and doesn't look like a slugger, he should be a high-OBP guy. When you look at the stats, he's put up very similar numbers to Corey Hart. Both play good defense, Cameron has shown more power (both have 15 HR, Cameron has less AB) and has walked more, while Corey has more hits. Corey was selected as an All Star and Cameron has been ripped on.

 

Hart: 362 AB / .287 avg / .326 OBP / .503 SLG / .829 OPS

Cameron: 219 AB / .237 avg / .329 OBP / .502 SLG / .831 OPS

In fact, here's the list of all MLB CFs (based on OPS)

1. Grady Sizemore (CLE) .911
2. Josh Hamilton (TEX) .910
3. Rick Ankiel (StL) .905
4. Nate McClouth (PIT) .886
5. Curtis Granderson (DET) ..846
6. Carlos Beltran (NYM) .846
7. Mike Cameron (MIL) .832
8. Jayson Werth (PHI) .830
9. David DeJesus (KC) .829
10. Cody Ross (FLA) .819
11. Aaron Rowand (SFG) .812
12. Torii Hunter (LAA) .786
13. B.J. Upton (TAM) .778
14. Vernon Wells (TOR) .777
15. Jody Gerut (SD) .767
16. Jim Edmonds (CHC) .764
17. Ryan Sweeney (OAK) .757
18. Nick Swisher (CHW) .755
19. Shane Victorino (PHI) .749
20. Ichiro Suzuki (SEA) .737

I'd guess that if you asked most fans (and probably most of the media), they'd say Cameron is hitting worse than most of the names under him on the list. I just wanted to shed a little light on probably the most under-appreciated Brewer so far this year... Mike Hammerin' Cameron

[molitor fan]

Bravo monty, excellent stuff from you as usual. Just shows what simply looking at batting average does to player analysis.

[mskuts]

That's quite an eye-opener. Thanks for sharing. IMO, the best thing Cameron brings to the table is his flawless defence. When a ball's hit to him you know he'll make the play. We haven't had a shutdown CF defensively in quite a while.

[silversurferr]

Hitting is as advertised. But his fielding has been mediocre. Good range; but three awful game-killing errors.

[jhart05]

I think this is the case of the average fan only looking a BA and K's, then saying the guy stinks.

 

I also think he's been very good in CF. Sure he's had a few mistakes, but no outfielder is going to be perfect.

 

He's gotten to, and caught, more fly balls than we've seen Brewer CF's get to in recent years. His range is huge.

 

I know someone out there will post some cool defensive stats. I know he was leading all CF's in some kind of OF stat recently.

[kramnoj]

I spend most of my listening time to 540 during the day and don't read the JS except for TH blog. Who locally is ripping Cameron? I kind of recall some people saying that he didn't belong at the top of the order, but that is more of a reflection on Yost more than Cameron.

 

Cameron has been an excellent signing so far, no doubt. It is interesting, he was expected to be a low average guy with decent OBP and some pop. So far his BA and OBP has been worse than expected, but has more power than previously displayed. I guess that happens when 15 of the 52 hits are HR!

 

Edit:

 

I know someone out there will post some cool defensive stats. I know he was leading all CF's in some kind of OF stat recently.

 

On June 9th, there was a link to UZR that had Cameron as the best CF defensively, rated at +40 for a season, IIRC. Recently there was a link to a stat that is based on ZR that had Cameron as basically average defensively.

[JJHardy7]

At the same time, Hart is receiving a lot of love, but Braun has been ripped on for his lack of OBP here. Hart and Braun both could increase their OBP, but that's a skill that can be developed over time.

[TooLiveBrew]

Hart has been crappy of late. I worry about his lack of OBP skills long-term.

 

 

But his fielding has been mediocre. Good range; but three awful game-killing errors

 

No, your memory is of three awful plays. As you point out, his range is tremendous, and has easily helped far more that it's hurt us.

[Oldcity]

At the same time, Hart is receiving a lot of love, but Braun has been ripped on for his lack of OBP here. Hart and Braun both could increase their OBP, but that's a skill that can be developed over time.

I haven't seen where Hart is receiving any love that Braun isn't. I've been moderately disappointed with both this season, considering what I was expecting/hoping for.

 

[Diskono]

His defense has been fine. Sure, he's made a few mistakes, but even in those cases, you have to give him some credit for being in a position to make a play. Most guys wouldn't have even been near the ball.

[logan82]

Why doesn't Cameron belong in the 2 hole?

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Why doesn't Cameron belong in the 2 hole?

Because you want a contact hitter in the 2 hole with a good OBP. You want to get as many people on base and in scoring position for your 3, 4, and 5 hitters, and and all or nothing player like Cameron who strikes out a lot fits better in the 6 or 7 hole.

[twobrewers]

I haven't seen where Hart is receiving any love that Braun isn't.

Braun definitely gets some love.

 

But Milwaukee has been having a bit of a love-fest with Hart recently. (See All-Star voting)

[JJHardy7]

I haven't seen where Hart is receiving any love that Braun isn't. I've been moderately disappointed with both this season, considering what I was expecting/hoping for.

 

There's a big thread that debates if Braun is good or great/all-star deserving or not and the big debate is OBP. It's barely been mentioned that Hart's OBP isn't where most would like. Who projects to have more plate discipline/OBP in the future? I don't really know either way, but I would imagine Braun does just because Corey's strike zone is huge due to his height.

 

I wasn't for signing Cameron, but he's about where I thought he would be. If the glass is half full, missing the first 25 games may not be the worst thing and might help him stay healthy/not wear down as the season goes on. I just hope we don't see any more of the game changing defensive lapses. I still wonder how Kenny Lofton may have fit in better than Cameron, but there must be a reason he wasn't signed.

[endaround]

Why doesn't Cameron belong in the 2 hole?

Because you want a contact hitter in the 2 hole with a good OBP. You want to get as many people on base and in scoring position for your 3, 4, and 5 hitters, and and all or nothing player like Cameron who strikes out a lot fits better in the 6 or 7 hole.

Why do you want a good contact hitter? And who's OBP projects to be better than Cameron's that's a viable option?

 

[istanbultaye]

I don't know about projection, but with how hot JJ has been, he has about the 3rd best OBP on the team when I checked a week ago. I think it was Prince and Gabe Kapler (in less PT) ahead of him.

[RU Rah Rah]

No problems here with Cameron or Kendall. They've both been as advertised at the plate, and solid defensively. (Cameron has had the misfortune of making two egregious and game-changing misplays in CF; otherwise, he's been brilliant.)

[Fatter than Joey]

Mike Cameron has received a lot of flak this year from fans and the media. I think most of it comes from him being miscast as a #2 hitter earlier in the season, and people believing that just because he's a CF and doesn't look like a slugger, he should be a high-OBP guy.

 

Cameron rightfully deserved some of the flak because he had a wretched May (.212 .262 .451 .713), and his June was nothing terribly special either (.203 .324 .475 .799), so up until July, Cameron really didn't give anyone a lot to talk about -- of course his July has been torrid, (.306 .432 .583 1.015) which makes his overall season look a lot better than it was at the end of June.

 

I think looking at Cameron's OBP and being critical is pretty fair -- and that is a concern that follows a number of Brewers throughout the year.

 

I think he can do better than his current .237 BA/.329 OBP -- I think he is much better player than those numbers. If he continues to suppress his K-rate from May-June he should have a fine season.

 

I don't think there is a person on this board that thinks Cameron is anything but a substantial upgrade over some our recent past CFers. I know I am constantly amazed at his ability to go back on the ball. He has made some costly mistakes -- however that should probably not happen in the future as well.

[TooLiveBrew]

Great points, guys. Cameron is one of the Brewers that, if I were a betting man, I'd bet on to have strong (or at least stronger) second halves after underperforming to an extent in the first half.

 

(Fielder, Cam, Bush, Weeks, Parra)

[BrewCrewForever]

At the same time, Hart is receiving a lot of love, but Braun has been ripped on for his lack of OBP here. Hart and Braun both could increase their OBP, but that's a skill that can be developed over time.

Exactly! I fully expect both of them to have higher OBP at some point. That with both having awesome SLG% will only make their OPS's look even sweeter.

[logan82]

At the same time, Hart is receiving a lot of love, but Braun has been ripped on for his lack of OBP here.

 

 

I don't agree with that at all. Braun has been talked up all year with a few people pointing out his terrible OBP while Hart has flown under the radar. When Hart was brought up as an all star, the same faults were pointed out. There are also much higher expectations for Bruan that Hart.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Why do you want a good contact hitter? And who's OBP projects to be better than Cameron's that's a viable option?

I want a good contact hitter because then if the leadoff hitter gets on you can use the Hit and Run more.

 

JJ Hardy has a .350 OBP and Cameron has a .320 OBP. Somehow I think you knew the answer to that question, but I answered it anyways.

[endaround]

So you want to make a hitter swing at bad pitches and GIDP more often? And just because Hardy is currently at .350 doesn't mean its in anyway expected to stay there.

[RickieDROPSbombs]

I am completley surprised, Monty way to dig that out. I for one had been giving Cam a little flak but nothing major. The more i see from him though, the more i like. The guy is dynamite when anything is hit to either side of him, but he does have a little trouble with the ball hit directly towards him. He is starting to heat up as well as Rickie Weeks, and Prince. Watch out if the Crew get 3 or 4 people hot at the same time, since we have yet to see this team with more than one hot player at a time. During May it was Braun who carried us, then JJ at the end of June and start of July, and Prince a few homestands ago. Once Rickie starts to click the whole offense will start producing because it starts from the top and the more he gets on, the more we score.

[1992casey]

Somehow I think you knew the answer to that question, but I answered it anyways.

 

^^ This crosses the condescension line.

 

 

Whether a defender is good or bad, errors are always ugly, and game-changing errors are always memorable. To be objective, we have to keep those facts in mind. Overall, Cameron's defense has been very pretty to watch.

 

Offensively, we've been in the small sample stage all season, especially considering that Mike missed the first 25 games. However, his current .335 OBP / .505 SLG would be completely in line with his three-year numbers (.342 OBP / .461 SLG) and his career numbers (.340 OBP / .447 SLG).

 

I think we're getting what was "advertised" when he was acquired.