McClung to bullpen? -- Yost to platoon McClung and Bush -- Latest: platoon over; Bush back in rotation full-time (reply #165)

[TooLiveBrew]

But reasons like it would screw up the routine or put pressure on them or that it will adversely effect the bullpen all seem to be things that everyone brings up anytime anything new is tried.

P, especially SP, function on a relatively strict schedule of work & recuperation. I think one reason the 'regular rest' gets brought up often is that it's pretty relevant. Getting out of that schedule means either throwing more frequently than one is used to, or throwing less frequently. Managers & pitching coaches routinely reference that pitchers need to 'stay sharp', as in not go for too long without pitching... otherwise risking efficiency/command when they go next time. I'm not saying you don't know this, Buc... just that there's a seemingly decent reason the point gets repeated.


Not saying your doubts are that type of extreme scenario TLB your fears might be warranted.

None of my fears ever seem to be warranted. I fear Guillermo Mota from afar, yet those closest to him continue to let him pitch!


This is one of those times where the risk reward factor is in favor of trying it. This idea may very well may turn out to be a poor one. If it is the risk isn't all that high

I agree on this part... but just don't think the idea's good. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Thurston Fluff]

I fear Guillermo Mota from afar, yet those closest to him continue to let him pitch!

 

I'll admit Mota does put a strain on my Yost love.

[sheethead]

naivin[/b]]

Well, actually we know that that's what their saying the reason is. It may well be as simple as that, but I happen to believe there may be other factors conributing to it that they'd just as soon not talk about.

Sounds like the making of a conspiracy. Maybe the Brewers are trying to get Dave Bush to shave his head again.

[DougJones43]

Can't say it's very surprising to see Bush struggle tonight. What a surprise that the guy was lights out right up until being made to sit for 16 straight days. The home/road schedule is too off-balanced to try and do this idiotic platoon. Just pick one or the other. Starting pitchers seem to need to stay somewhat on schedule to remain effective.

 

Ned really has a knack for taking something good and turning it rotten. He's like the bizarro King Midas.

 

Billy Hall was showing signs of coming around by facing a lot of lefties, then Ned starts playing him everyday against righties and his production has gone right down the toilet. Bush and McClung were both pitching very well, so he puts them in some ill-advised home/road platoon, and it looks like it's going to affect them negatively as well.

 

End this silly experiment!

[DougJones43]

McClung looking very off today as well. Small sample, I know, but neither pitcher has looked very comfortable or sharp since this fiasco started.

 

Both guys were doing so well. Why, oh why, did Ned have to mess with it?...

[mls4]

Small sample, I know, but neither pitcher has looked very comfortable or sharp since this fiasco started.

Exactly my thoughts. I don't mind thinking outside the box, but I'm ready for the experiment to end. We can't afford to waste both pitchers, we need at least one to be effective. It may be too early too tell, but it just doesn't look like it's going to work at this point.

 

Plus, doesn't it leave us a bullpen arm short on certain days? You know that's the game that's going to go 15 innings.

[jeffy]

Plus, doesn't it leave us a bullpen arm short on certain days? You know that's the game that's going to go 15 innings.

I think at some time either Bush or McClung could be the last guy to come in to a game like that. Depending on the timing of it, that could maybe even cause the end of this. If a game like that were to occur, say, two days after Bush's next start, maybe McClung would have to come in and Bush would get the next start, even though it is a road game.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Time to end this experiment. Bush is a far superior pitcher and McClung belongs in the bullpen. McClung rarely pitches more than 5 innings anyway. This platoon situation is bad for both pitchers and must end now unless Yost wants to throw another promising season down the drain.

[valpocrewsader]

He's like the bizarro King Midas.

 

 

[bcf5575]

this is the stupidest thing ever. it pisses me off every time i hear or even think about it.

 

this is the kind of thing that losing teams do because it doesnt matter, but this is not 2002. It is 2008 and the Brewers are in the middle of a pennant race. it is not the time for experiementing - be a leader, make a decision.

 

side rant: If stats are so darn important, then yank suppan before the guy who has always killed him hits a 3 run homer to blow the game open. I just don't get it!!!!!

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Bush and McClung have been terrific and far exceeded expectations more recently. I'd rather see Yost pick one and end this silly platoon. It seems to limit his bullpen options because there are times neither can go. Take Soup as your #4 and maybe Bush as a #5 and go. McClung might be better for the pen since he doesn't seem to go quite as deep into games as Bush. Hope they win 50% of those games and take 2/3 when the top 3 starters are out there.

[jeffy]

Hope they win 50% of those games and take 2/3 when the top 3 starters are out there.

 

That should be the formula for success, over a full season that'd translate to 97 wins. Even 2/3 for #1 and #2 and 50% for 3-5 would mean about 92 wins.

 

Pick one and move on. The manager's job is to make tough decisions like this.

[logan82]

No more platoon in the 5th spot. Glad that is over already. I was expecting it to go on for another month.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Im happy thats over with. Hopefully Bush can settle in and pitch the way he did before the all star break and maybe McClung can be ok in the bullpen.

[jhart05]

I really think this was only used to get McClung one more start after the break.

 

To see if they could use him as trade bait.

[Schlitz001]

I hope that whole experiment was just to use McClung as trade bait (for whatever value he has). Thank God it's over. If it had worked for a start or two who knows how long Yost would have clung (rimshot) on to it for.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I think the whole thing was a ploy to always have an extra long man available once Suppan got off the DL for the past few weeks - it's funny that this is announced just after Suppan finally gave a good start and far enough ahead of time for Bush to keep preparing for his next scheduled start w/out this distraction.

 

If Suppan stunk on ice against that Braves lineup he pitched against, I wouldn't have been surprised to see McClung taking his spot in the rotation as the answer to this "platoon".

[GenoSeligPrieb]

To me, Bush seems like a decent reliever, and a below-average SP. McClung has been much better adapting to being a starter lately. And during this home/road "audition" nonsense, Bush's ERA as a starter has been 7.30. McClung beat the Cardinals in his 1 start during this timeframe, and was bad in his 2 relief appearances.

 

It seems that the move should be McClung starting, for his usual 5-ish innings, with Bush his designated inning 6-7...8? guy. Is that wrong? Again, it's not a slam on Bush, but he didn't pitch well as a starter during this experiment, and McClung pitched much better as a starter than as a reliever.

 

Makes sense?

 

I just can't see why Ned could look at the stats (IF he's being guided by the results), and declare, "Yup, Bush is the horse to bet on here."

 

In today's article, Ned's rationale was...consistent, but as it often is, to quote another Ned...Flanders..."Well, that's a melon-scratcher!":

 

"The reason we did that is two-fold," Yost said. " 'Bushie,' up until the point we started this, was on a pretty good roll. Two, he has been a starter with us for the last two years."

But wait; there was one more fold to be unfolded.

"And three, Seth fits a little better in the 'pen. It's easier to bring Seth in in a situation in the middle of an inning or to shut down an inning. I don't envision him as a long guy. Fifth-, sixth-, seventh-inning type stuff."

 

Soooo...Bushie got the job because he had been doing it before? That's enough of a reason? McClung was pitching well in the rotation before this plan, too. Again, I'm not ripping on "Bushie" but Ned doesn't provide compelling reasons. How about the fact that McClung seemed to finally have found his niche as a starter, while Bush has been bad during this experiment? I know, I know, small sample, but there's no rhyme or reason to the decision....*sigh*

 

[Glennron]

I think the "rhyme or reason" is that Bush has been a better pitcher than McClung for the past four years. It also didn't help Bush that he had 15 days off in between starts.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

"I think the "rhyme or reason" is that Bush has been a better pitcher than McClung for the past four years."

 

If the last 4 years is the yardstick here, then shouldn't Jason Isringhausen still be the Cardinals closer, Ivan Rodriguez the Tigers catcher, Richie Sexson the 1B in Seattle, and Eric Gagne be our closer?

 

I think a much higher degree of weight toward how the player's performing in 2008, should be considered into the decision. If you don't get a chance based on what you've done in 2004 - 2007, then Ryan Ludwick, Josh Hamilton and Milton Bradley would still be reserves.

[TooLiveBrew]

To me, Bush seems like a decent reliever, and a below-average SP. McClung has been much better adapting to being a starter lately. And during this home/road "audition" nonsense, Bush's ERA as a starter has been 7.30. McClung beat the Cardinals in his 1 start during this timeframe, and was bad in his 2 relief appearances.

 

McClung imo is best used by stopping him from trying to blow away batters, which is my opinion of why he had some success as a SP. Batters know he can't locate the gruntball, and his CB is roughly average if not worse. When Seth decides to pitch instead of throw, he should get meaningful innings. Until then, I'm fine with him working in the middle innings.

 

However, his control problems have not been fixed -- thus far in 2008, 4.3 BB/9 IP. Better, but two BBs today with Seth featuring the gruntball/blow-'em-away FB that he doesn't possess the skill to command is extremely concerning to me. Kendall & Maddux both made mound visits to talk to Seth during his inning (I assume it was about not trying to throw it through the backstop... just a guess), but McClung appeared to decide to tune them out.