08/05/2006 Brewers (Sheets) vs. Cardinals (Reyes) 6:15 p.m.

[Oldcity]

Bucksman, some of your statements are idiotic. Sheets gave up one run. He deserved a loss? How do you know what he would have done if healthy? I can't help but feel you're just trying to stir the pot.

 

And pitchers don't automatically deserve credit if they win 20 games. Russ Ortiz won 20 games once, and he wasn't even that good that year. Capuano won 18 last year, and he was slightly better than average. Win/Loss numbers mean squat.

[PeaveyFury]

So why does a pitcher get credit when he racks up 20 wins

 

He shouldn't. It's a nice accomplishment/milestone, but it's completely inter-dependent on how his team performs around him. Sheets has compiled that record on some horrific Brewer teams.

 

Gotta love the Brewers kool-aid drinkers on his board.

 

Also have to love the people who come here solely to stir up trouble and post nothing but controversial, negative posts only when the team is losing.

[PeaveyFury]

Bucksman, some of your statements are idiotic.

 

Easy with the personal insults.

[Oldcity]

I'm sorry, but he's been accused of trolling before. Stuff like that just bugs me.

[bucksman4]

I'm sorry, but he's been accused of trolling before. Stuff like that just bugs me.

 

 

Do you always bash people when they disagree with you? Someone may have a different viewpoint than you regarding perceptions of different players on the team or the organization in general. Some guys like myself aren't obsessed with stats or OBP or SLG or pitching geek stats, but rather are focused on who wins us ballgames. Some people love calculating that stuff, and to them I say HAVE FUN! But for me, I love looking at box scores and standings and seeing W's in the win column for the Brewers. I tend to like the players who contribute the most to that "W" column, and if I need to be condemned for that, then go right ahead. Thus, Ben Sheets does not make my favorite players list, nor does Geoff Jenkins. I love players who get the most of their ability and contribute in the clutch and earn their money. There's nothing wrong with that.

[Marc Newfield of Dreams]

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But for me, I love looking at box scores and standings and seeing W's in the win column for the Brewers.

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And when you do see W's, you're nowhere to be found on these boards...

[PeaveyFury]

Thus, Ben Sheets does not make my favorite players list, nor does Geoff Jenkins. I love players who get the most of their ability and contribute in the clutch and earn their money. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

Except that Jenkins has, in actuality, performed very well in the clutch this year overall.

[bucksman4]

Marc Newfield of Dreams

 

 

I don't think I need to defend myself to a guy who chooses the "great" Marc Newfield to be his handle name. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[naivin]

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Nope. bullox said it best, Ben is out of shape. Period. I am starting to question his heart.

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I wonder about this myself. Did anyone see the Brewers Str8up series when they tracked Capuano for 5 days? Does anyone, and I mean anyone, see Sheets working out that way? For the record I had those thoughts at the time, not just now. I just don't see him keeping up the same kind of regimine that Capuano was/is on. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I just don't see it.

[naivin]

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How do you know what he would have done if healthy?

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Unfortunately with Sheets, its starting to look as if we'll never know.

[bucksman4]

Thanks, naivin. It seems I am not as "idiotic" as some people think. See, others DO agree with my points on here. Step outside the Brewers bubble, people. You'll start thinking more coherently, like myself and naivin already are!

[PeaveyFury]

You'll start thinking more coherently, like myself and naivin already are!

 

Your backhanded insults toward everyone are also unappreciated. People aren't 'incoherent' simply because they don't agree with you.

[naivin]

Don't get me wrong, I hope the guy comes back and pitches 6-7 injury free seasons, but there appears to be nothing to indicate that is going to happen. At this point I think the Brewers have to do what the Cubs should have done wth Wood and Prior two years ago - proceed as if the guy is not going to be around, and treat whatever you get from Sheets as a bonus. Given his abilities, that could be a huge bonus, but if you try to pencil him in at the top of your rotation, you are doing your team and your fans a huge disservice.

[pitchleague]

personally, a pitchers W-L record is just pretty numbers. A meaningless statistic because they decided to give "credit" for win or loss to a pitcher.

 

W-L record is over-rated. Same with ERA.

Give me WHIP, BA vs LH/RH, K/9, BB/9, Runners/9 and I'm set. Maybe SLG allowed, too.

 

So what if Sheets has a losing record. He had to pitch on crappy teams that did little for him. Put Sheets on a Braves team or Astros team or Cardinals team in the same era (2000-2005) and Sheets is likely a perenial all-star, possible Cy Young candidate.

[crewcrazy]

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At this point I think the Brewers have to do what the Cubs should have done wth Wood and Prior two years ago - proceed as if the guy is not going to be around, and treat whatever you get from Sheets as a bonus.

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The point could be made for the Brewers using that mindset even if Ben never had an injury in his career. There's a reason why they say you can never have enough pitching -- you just never know with injuries.

[bucksman4]

Your backhanded insults toward everyone are also unappreciated. People aren't 'incoherent' simply because they don't agree with you.

 

 

Excuse me, but I don't remember calling people on the board "incoherent." Don't try to misconstrue my words. I merely said they would be thinking "more coherently." I think if people read my posts accurately and didn't try to add or subtract words as they saw fit, I wouldn't receive all the hostility (P.S. People do agree with what I have to say, they merely are, at times, silent because they don't want to ruffle feathers or disrupt the Brewers aura of the room).

[thablingster]

Double Play David strikes again. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif

 

I have no malicious feelings towards David Bell, but from here on forward he will be known as Double Play David, just as Matt Wise is known as Salad Tongs.

 

It is too bad we couldn't pull out a W. When I heard at work Sheets was out again I was like http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/frown.gif , but as others said at least it isn't his shoulder, although pecs are fairly important for a pitcher (just thinking physiologically)

 

We need to figure out a way to get some reverse mojo going on Jeff Suppan tomorrow. Someone find a really old pic of him and one of Cappy in college or something.

[PeaveyFury]

Excuse me, but I don't remember calling people on the board "incoherent." Don't try to misconstrue my words. I merely said they would be thinking "more coherently."

 

And like I said, that's a back-handed insult. No, you didn't use the word incoherent, but that is certainly what was implied.

 

Last warning for everyone: Play nice, or this makes history as the first IGT to be locked.

[thablingster]

After being able to watch back the game, I have come up with a non-offensive nickname for David Bell: Barrel Roll Bell. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif

 

I will still call him Double Play David, but the barrel roll was funny.

[Team Canada]

Do you always bash people when they disagree with you?

 

Congratulations, you just won the Unintentional Irony award, come on down!

 

Someone may have a different viewpoint than you regarding perceptions of different players on the team or the organization in general. Some guys like myself aren't obsessed with stats or OBP or SLG or pitching geek stats, but rather are focused on who wins us ballgames. Some people love calculating that stuff, and to them I say HAVE FUN! But for me, I love looking at box scores and standings and seeing W's in the win column for the Brewers. I tend to like the players who contribute the most to that "W" column, and if I need to be condemned for that, then go right ahead. Thus, Ben Sheets does not make my favorite players list, nor does Geoff Jenkins. I love players who get the most of their ability and contribute in the clutch and earn their money. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

Speaking of incoherence, I'm not sure how you determine who contributes to wins without stats. Is it the glint in their eye? Posture? How fast they run down the line?

[RWeeksUp2Bat23]

LOL....ha ha ha.

 

Get in shape....Ha. Priceless.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[endaround]

Come on its fairly simle. Players bucksman likes contribute, players he doesn't like steal money from the team.

[1992casey]

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Ben is out of shape. Period. I am starting to question his heart.

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Ben told us a couple weeks ago that he felt he needed to be carrying a few more pounds. But I'm not sure how a player can "bulk up" in the right places while trying to be easy on his lat/shoulder/pec area.

 

As far as his heart, I'm sure his EKG is fine. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

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EDIT: Anyway, the reason I came to this thread was to see opinions on the Bell barrel-roll. Was that play dirty or not?