The "What to do about Rickie Weeks?" Trade Thread

[PilprinBuddha]

As I look at the brewers lineup, the obvious need is anothe lefthanded bat. The only position I see that makes sense to make a change is 2nd. I know many love the potential of Rickie Weeks, but a left handed batter who can hit for an average would be real nice.

 

What LH 2nd basemen are available? It sounds like Roberts is not...at least for a reasonable price.

[splitterpfj]

This is why Ray Durham's name keeps coming up, he's a switch-hitter, in the last year of a free agent contract - the kind of guy a team like the Giants is likely to deal.

 

Ray is in his sixth season in SF, he's been solid the whole time out there, except for last year, when he had a bad hamstring. He's not much with the glove anymore, but he would have to be considered an upgrade as a leadoff hitter right now, even if it's just as a platoon.

 

Orlando Hudson is also a switch-hitter, who's much better defensively, but AZ is in the middle of the playoff race. If they decided to deal him, he'd likely be much more expensive in a trade than Durham would be, because he's headed for free agency as a Type A, which would bring two draft picks.

[splitterpfj]

MLBTradeRumors.com covered the second base market just today.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

[endaround]

Grudz is the best bet-he'd be cheap and can actually play 2B unlike Durham

[wibadgers23]

I just don't know how a trade for a guy like Durham or Grudz with Weeks involved would work. Obviously we would have to get more in the trade. But is KC or SF going to give us anybody else that would make the trade worthwhile? Now if Weeks isn't involved in one of these trades, I still don't know if the trade makes sense. Is it going to be a platoon? Is it going to be whosever hot, gets to play? It seems like a complicated situation.

[splitterpfj]

If it's for Durham or Grudzielanek, I can't imagine Weeks going in that trade, unless there's another player also coming to the Brewers.

 

If they dealt a prospect for one of these players, I would imagine Rickie would go to the bench, and start occasionally, with Dillon to AAA.

[RockCoCougars]

How are Durham or Grudzielanek an upgrade over Weeks at this point? 10 years ago, sure. Not so much today. Durham is a switch hitting Eric Young type, and Grudzielanek hits a very soft .300.

[splitterpfj]

Over the last two seasons, Rickie managed to keep his OBP up, even during the times when he wasn't getting many base hits. This season, Rickie's OBP is at .320 - Durham is at .385, and has been lower than .356 just twice in the last ten seasons.

 

When you're looking at two months worth of games, Durham might be able to give the team a boost.

 

edit: A platoon might be interesting. This season vs right-handers, Durham is hitting .318, with a .396 OBP, and .446 Slugging. Weeks vs lefties, is .265, .380, .446

 

That's absolutely an upgrade over Rickie's production, I wonder if Mark A. would take on Durham's remaining salary?

[Oldcity]

This is really a tough situation. I hate the idea of trading Weeks right now because his trade value is at an all-time low. People were discussing a Weeks-Roberts trade at the beginning of the season, and most felt Weeks had more value. Now you'd have to give up more than Weeks for Roberts. I'd hate to give up on a talent like Weeks because a half-season of a low batting average made us panic in a pennant race.

[apirk]

I wouldn't mind them getting Grudzielanek and maybe sharing ABs between the two. I liked watching him when he was with the Cards, he'll put up solid numbers, cheap and I think the fans would love him(not that that should be important)

[RU Rah Rah]

This is really a tough situation. I hate the idea of trading Weeks right now because his trade value is at an all-time low. People were discussing a Weeks-Roberts trade at the beginning of the season, and most felt Weeks had more value. Now you'd have to give up more than Weeks for Roberts. I'd hate to give up on a talent like Weeks because a half-season of a low batting average made us panic in a pennant race.

I agree about the low trade value. It would be hard to get much for him now, straight-up; you'd have to dip into the minors again and package him with some prospects.

I guess I disagree that we're really just talking about a half-season of substandard BA here. Rickie's OBP is .320, and, over the past month, it has been .302. I guess the counter-argument is that we should be encouraged that his OBP is 100 points greater than his BA, but I think that there are limits to the usefulness of that point.

 

The fact is, Rickie has only had an above-average OPS+ once in his career -- 108 last year, with a torrid second half. On the whole, he's just been consistently mediocre.

 

But . . . maybe the real question is: What do we really know about Rickie after 393 games and 1440 AB's? That really just adds up to 2+ seasons. I guess it's possible that he could still turn it around. His stats at age 24 are comparable to some guys who turned out to be nice players: Bobby Grich, Rico Petrocelli.

[fondybrewfan]

I don't think Rickie's value is as low as it could be if he continues to struggle. He is still at that point where many teams believe he has potential. But if we wait until the offseason or the trade deadline next year abd he still struggles the "potential" tag might not be applicable anymore.

 

I wouldn't be opposed to trading him right now, although the lack of a suitable replacement (unless we get a 2nd basemen back) is a little concerning. No one at AAA or AA that could step in and play reasonably well. I suppose we could stck Counsell out there, he has been pretty good in spot start duty but I can't imagine that he would be to effective playing everyday or only against righties with Dillon against lefties.

 

Would Jose Lopez from Seattle or Freddy Sanchez be options? Jose doesn't walk at all so I would be hesitant on that and Sanchez is having a terrible year but has proven in the last couple years that he is a solid player.

 

Heck maybe we could pry Kelly Johnson away from the Braves if they have a bad week coming out of the all star break, I can't imagine that be would be cheap though

[Crewin06]

What would it take to get a Ray Durham?

 

I would guess that a deal of the Hurricane and Brad Nelson would get it done but I often overvalue the prospects and undervalue players.

 

Would Ray Durham qualify as a type B free agent?

 

What type of 2B and 1B prospects do the Giants have coming up through the system?

 

Are the Giants even buried being only 7 games out? That division is so bad that a good second half could actually see them taking the division as sad as that sounds.

[nate82]

I wonder if we could get Eric Eybar or Howie Kendrick from the Angels for some low level prospects. Eybar is a good to a great second baseman he hits about the same as Rickie does but he is not a leadoff hitter though. Kendrick would be a better fit though. Even though Eybar is a switch hitter I would take Kendrick over Eybar. Rickie has more potental than what Kendrick has but right now Kendrick is probably the better player and could become a great leadoff hitter.

 

I'm not sure the Angels would even deal either of them this year though. Would be nice to trade Rickie straight up for Kendrick though. I believe Kendrick is more of a leadoff guy than Rickie is.

[splitterpfj]

Would Ray Durham qualify as a type B free agent?

 

Yes, Durham will be a Type B, with an outside chance of being a Type A. This probably wouldn't come into play though, because you only get draft picks for losing a player to whom you had offered arbitration. I wouldn't expect the Brewers to offer, because if Durham accepts, you may be paying 8 million to a 37-year-old 2B with multiple hamstring issues in his past.

 

As far as prospects to get him, it shouldn't take more than one solid (not elite) prospect to get him here. The Giants do have to decide which way they're going this season, I wouldn't be surprised to see them wait until the final few days before the deadline to do anything.

 

• Will the Giants trade him?
• Would Mark A add another 3-3.5 million to the payroll to get him?
• Could the two sides agree on a deal?
  

[RU Rah Rah]

I was high on Ray Durham as a possibility, I really was. But . . . I dunno. I guess he might be alright as a stop-gap? (If healthy -- and, in his case, that's a pretty big if.)

 

Kendrick has 22 BB (!) in 792 career AB's. That seems almost impossible to me. (Rickie averages that many HBP over 162 games.)

[Fatter than Joey]

I hate the idea of trading Weeks right now because his trade value is at an all-time low.

 

Agreed -- however, (as fondy points out), Weeks value could get lower,and that is the big gamble I guess.

 

It seems every team has a disappointing/enigmatic player that perhaps we could trade Weeks for.

[joepepsi]

Doug has often said he doesn't like to trade position players as part of a deadline deal. Trading Weeks now would represent a major shift in team focus and is best left to something to consider in the offseason.

[rousieboy]

If you want to acquire a 2B and not trade Weeks because his value is at an all time low...the answer is simple...send Nashville so he can get it together whether it is this year or next year at spring training.

[ILuvDaBush]

Kendrick has 22 BB (!) in 792 career AB's. That seems almost impossible to me. (Rickie averages that many HBP over 162 games.)

That HAS to be the stat of the Weeks! "I take more trots to first the hard way in a year than this kid takes the EASY way....IN HIS CAREER!

[LouisEly]

I guess the counter-argument is that we should be encouraged that his OBP is 100 points greater than his BA, but I think that there are limits to the usefulness of that point.

 

You bring up the argument that I hate the most and think is the biggest fallacy in all of baseball - "his OBP is 100 points greater than his BA..."

 

Well, here's the reality:

 

 

Batting average is the biggest component of OBP!!!

 

 

No one gets more walks than hits. This is the majors - pitchers will throw strikes. The top power hitters of the decade will draw a lot of intentional walks, but beyond that these are major league pitchers - they throw strikes! This is not little league. With the exception of the top power hitters in the game, it is very difficult to walk enough to make your OBP more than 100 points higher than your batting average, thus any good OBP is going to be reliant on having a good batting average. A batting average of less than .250 just isn't going to cut it, because it will be almost impossible to get the OBP over .350.

 

Yes, OBP is important, but since the biggest component of OBP is batting average you need to take both into consideration.

[logan82]

We know that BA is the biggest component of OBP. Most people are encouraged by Weeks BA/OBP split because it is highly unlikley that he will have a BA under.240 by the end of the year. Your oversized letters are not going to change my mind.

[brettac1]

No one gets more walks than hits.

 

Jack Cust

 

2007: 105 BB, 101 H

2008: 69 BB, 68 H

[Samurai Bucky]

Jack Cust

 

I don't think he is a leadoff hitter for the A's... is he?

[brettac1]

No, but I was just pointing out that someone does get more walks than hits.