Left handed bat off the bench

[mothershipconnection]

but I'd be surprised if he has more than 162 games at third.

 

156, second in games played to SS. He never played 3B in the minors.

 

And Mr. Thecrew07, it ain't flawed logic.

 

IF, you were doing what he said Taking one AB from a game from a player on a hot streak (aided greatly by facing many LHP in the last 10 days) and claiming it to definitive proof of as why any player is better than another is flawed logic at best. then it is. 1 AB is always meaningless, no matter how great or awful, as even Randy Johnson has produced an amazing AB in the last 36 hours.

 

If people seem to have a short fuse in these discussions, a historical perspective will explain it. Branyan debates tend to turn into painful lobbing of anecdotal evidence, small samples, and appeals to intangibles and front office decisions.

I struggle with the concept of "complete hitter" as it seems to be used as a magic label by people who promulgate the superiority of one player over another when there's an absence of real proof. It's like saying a guy's grit and hustle make him better than the numbers suggest. These data (stats) come from actual in-game performances, so it's hard to say the intangibles make a difference in areas that can be quantified and display contrary data. Studies have been done with look at the relative run production of different AB outcomes, but still it will be argued that this is hooey.

[silversurferr]

Cheez, How many ways can I say it: Branyan is not the answer at third. If you want a .220 average with a strikeout every other at bat, limited speed on the base paths, infrequent bursts of power, and mediocre range in the field, then he is your man. What is overlooked is that Hall can hit righthanders as well as lefthanders with power, run the basepaths well, and field the position well. Branyan is a bench player who can spot start at third. It pains me to see him start regularly. It will cost us games. I am not arguing numbers, I am arguing what I see when I watch the games.

[logan82]

Career splits vs RHP

 

Branyan .243/.334/.490

Hall .252/.301/.446

 

If you chose Hall over Branyan while looking at these stats or believe that K's are worse than any other out, we really don't have any common ground to discuss anything on this topic. Doug Melvin himself has stated that he had his stat guys look at changing every K to an out in play and it made little difference over the course of the whole year.

 

I am not arguing numbers, I am arguing what I see when I watch the games.

 

Considering that the difference between a .300 hitter and a .250 hitter is one hit a a week, the only way to objectively look at hitters is with stats.

[silversurferr]

So their numbers are the same against righthanders. (I assume that Hall is better against lefties.) What about their fielding and baserunning? If Hall is already just as good in the field, doesn't it make sense that he will be better in the field after 60 more games?

[jason21nl]

What about their fielding and baserunning?

 

I don't think Hall is a very good fielder at all at 3rd. Hall might be faster than Branyan, but I think that Hall is one of the worst if not the worst base runner on the team

[mothershipconnection]

What is overlooked is that Hall can hit righthanders as well as lefthanders with power, run the basepaths well, and field the position well. Branyan is a bench player who can spot start at third. It pains me to see him start regularly. It will cost us games.

 

Branyan holds a career .078 edge in OPS against RHP. That's not a tiny difference. This year especially, Hall has been killed by RHP's to the tune of a .535 OPS in 190 PA while Branyan has killed righties.

 

I am not arguing numbers, I am arguing what I see when I watch the games.

 

Those numbers actually come from real games, not Narnia.

[jjfanec]

I don't think Hall is a very good fielder at all at 3rd. Hall might be faster than Branyan, but I think that Hall is one of the worst if not the worst base runner on the team

I completely agree with this statement. Whoever, is saying Hall is a good baserunner is simply wrong. He is faster than Branyan but in no way a better base runner. It isn't like we are going to steal bases with either of them out there. Look at Bill Hall stealing bases the last three years, he actually has been caught more than he has stolen 15 to 19.

 

Also just to counteract the "all Branyan does is strikeout group" Bill Hall has K'ed 74 times in 290 plate appearances. Branyan has K'ed 37 in 121 PA's. 26% to 31%. That is a difference but lets not act like Bill Hall is a good contact guy. I think the platoon is working and there is no need to switch. I say let Hall get some at-bats vs RHP but there is no reason to stop hitting Branyan. The fielding is also not as big of issue as people make it. Hall has better range but Branyan seems to make the routine plays more often. Hall has somewhere near 17 errors this year and I know you can't just look at errors but they do tell you something.

[kramnoj]

What is overlooked is that Hall can hit righthanders as well as lefthanders with power, run the basepaths well, and field the position well. Branyan is a bench player who can spot start at third. It pains me to see him start regularly. It will cost us games.

 

Branyan holds a career .078 edge in OPS against RHP. That's not a tiny difference. This year especially, Hall has been killed by RHP's to the tune of a .535 OPS in 190 PA while Branyan has killed righties.

 

I am not arguing numbers, I am arguing what I see when I watch the games.

 

Those numbers actually come from real games, not Narnia.

 

In all subforums, our goal is to maintain a civil and mature posting environment, where the discussion is thoughtful, substantive, and respectful.

 

Was that respectful?

 

silversurferr obviously has his biases. We can choose to engage his points. He can choose to respond or ignore them. Some people are just conditioned to think that a hitter can't be valuable if they are hitting under .250. We can do our part to inform or educate, but if a person chooses not to expand their knowledge, we should let it go. I thought that remarks like that were not encouraged here.