When Suppan comes back who goes?

[Patrick425]

Your logic leads to the Priors & Woods of the MLB world.

I'm not saying he need to pitch 120-130 pitches a game every time out like Baker did with those guys back in 04(? - or was it 03?).

 

I'm just not getting the whole 170 innings carved in stone thing. Can't they monitor him every other week and see how he feels? Give him a check up? Maybe take an occasional precautionary MRI or something? Rather than set this arbitrary inning limit number.

 

I think all pitchers are different. I'm sure some players rebound from injuries at different rates than other. Do we need to take a worse case approach with Parra? I could understand if we were 12 games back and on pace to lose 90 to 100 games, but I think they need to push the envelope a little bit this year with this situation.

[dadofandrew]

Dusty?

[bcf5575]

the only way that Parra goes to the pen is if the Brewers pass the cubs and have a comfortable lead in the division.

you dont bench your 3rd best pitcher during a pennant race. limit pitch count sure - to the bullpen, no. no chance.

[TooLiveBrew]

I'm not saying he need to pitch 120-130 pitches a game every time out like Baker did with those guys back in 04(? - or was it 03?).

 

I know that's not what you're saying...

 

 

I think all pitchers are different. I'm sure some players rebound from injuries at different rates than other.

 

Exactly. Manny is not Kerry Wood, nor is he Mark Prior... nor is he being overworked in that way. You just have to be willing to truly concede the point quoted here. Manny Parra is Manny Parra -- the Brewers are very aware of his specific injury, & how his body has responded to it to this point. That's why they set the target of 170 IP for this season... iirc they go by the '30% increase' rule of thumb. To go much more over that would be very risky, I think.

 

 

I'm just not getting the whole 170 innings carved in stone thing.

 

I think you aren't if you think it's set in stone. It isn't, but it's set as a guideline and reminder that too much work on this particular individual's shoulder is dangerous to his & the Brewers' short-term & long-term plans. I don't disagree with you, Patrick, that the Brewers are definitely 'going for it', & Manny is part of that. But an injured Parra is a huge loss, and he can continue to contribute by working from the 'pen for a while, and if you keep him working every once in a while to stay fresh, stretching him back out for September (& hopefully beyond) shouldn't be too hard.

[joepepsi]

I think you can keep Parra within limits by using off days and limiting him to 5 innings a start every once in a while.

 

McClung should go to the pen. Actually, Suppan should, but that's not going to happen. McClung has done a nice job filling in as a starter, but I don't think he's really pitched as well as his numbers might indicate. He ran off a string of 6 inning quality starts in early-mid June, but since then he's walking more batters and seems to be pitching in and out of trouble a lot, in a Vargas sort of way, only better.

 

He's a nice guy to have on the team and has certainly earned the opportunity to compete for a rotation spot next year. But for now, I think he's the 6th man in the rotation.

[datrain711]

although performance wise lately it should be suppan in the pen, I doubt the Brewers want a pitch to contact type guy in any meaningful relief role. Therefore, its probably got to be McClung, although I'm really turning the corner on the guy. I love his approach and he's really been having some solid outings for us.

[endaround]

I think people need to realize how many injuries Parra has had. Sheets in his most injured filled year pitched more innings than Parra has ever done in a season. Now at age 25 you can hope the worst is behind him, but keeping Parra healthy is almost as important as keeping Sheets healthy and the one way we know how to do that is to keep him from having a huge jump in his workload.

[logan82]

How much better is Parra than Bush, Suppan or McClung? I think the difference is pretty small. Especially when we are talking about 5 starts at most.

[kramnoj]

I think people need to realize how many injuries Parra has had. Sheets in his most injured filled year pitched more innings than Parra has ever done in a season. Now at age 25 you can hope the worst is behind him, but keeping Parra healthy is almost as important as keeping Sheets healthy and the one way we know how to do that is to keep him from having a huge jump in his workload.

Are you counting minor league innings? Parra had 139 IP in 2003 as a 20 year old. Parra also had over 132 IP last year between the minors and majors. In 2006, Sheets had 128 IP between the majors and minors.

 

Now it certainly is possible that those innings as a 20 year old were too much for him and may have contributed to his injuries over the ensuing seasons. So monitoring his pitching and health is obviously of high importance.

 

I've made the comparison before: testing a pitcher's arm is like driving on ice: You can handle the situation just fine until you go to far, and then the chance of disaster is high. Finding the border between safety and danger zone, without ever getting into the danger zone is dicey. So it's best to dial back to where you know that you can control it, but then you have wasted resources (time, or IP, in this comparison).

[jazzytrav]

I do realize he's had a past history of injuries, but so has Sheets. Should we rest Sheets as well?

There's at least a good chance that Sheets won't be pitching for us next year, and Parra is still cheap for awhile. So no, we don't rest Sheets as well.

 

I'm all for sending McClung back to the bullpen and Mota to the DL with a "tender elbow" or some junk. That dude needs to rest, and McClung has really scared me his last two outings.

 

I'm fine with Bush at the back end of the rotation. He throws a gem every once in awhile, but even if he doesn't, he at least eats up more innings than McClung could.

[Schlitz001]

I heard on the radio after Bush's last start that Yost hinted at platooning McClung and Bush with McClung starting on the road and Bush at home. If this ended up being the case, how do you handle each of them in between starts where their counterpart is starting? Do you use them as a sort of long relief in between starts? It seems to me to be a good way to get two decently performing starting pitchers out of their routine.

 

I would be all for pushing McClung back to the pen and sending Mota to the DL or giving him the ol' DFA.

[Fatter than Joey]

I heard on the radio after Bush's last start that Yost hinted at platooning McClung and Bush with McClung starting on the road and Bush at home. If this ended up being the case, how do you handle each of them in between starts where their counterpart is starting?

 

I'd tell them their manager is a dipwad -- this is creative, yet Yostingly moronic.

 

I would be all for pushing McClung back to the pen and sending Mota to the DL or giving him the ol' DFA.

 

I think it is pretty clear our BP needs a lot of help.

[RU Rah Rah]

Re: the Bush/McClung home/road platoon, this is from the State Journal late on Sunday:

 

While Milwaukee Brewers manager Ned Yost said his decision is not final, he strongly suggested Sunday he will use the unusual starting rotation that will see Dave Bush pitch at Miller Park with Seth McClung get the nod on the road.

"I've never seen anything like this," Yost said of the interesting arrangement. "I'm just trying to give us our best chance to win. I'm not trying to re-invent the wheel."

 

I just don't see how this is going to work, in terms of their bullpen availability. It seems like the bullpen would be half an arm short because they periodically would be getting ready for, or resting after, their starts.

I guess I also have a problem with Bush getting semi-demoted out of the rotation after his last few outings (which have been superb) because of his year-long home/road stats. His road ERA is rotten, but it includes bad starts at Wrigley in April and Florida and Pittsburgh in May. I really don't think he's the same guy now.

Any thoughts?

 

[logan82]

I can't deny that Bush has weird home road splits, but I don't agree that a starting pitching platoon makes sense.

[rluzinski]

How much better is Parra than Bush, Suppan or McClung? I think the difference is pretty small. Especially when we are talking about 5 starts at most.

 

My guesses:

 

Parra: 4.0 ERA

Bush: 4.5 ERA

Suppan: 4.75 ERA

McClung: 4.75 ERA

 

I think it's a pretty big difference. Now, how much is that in terms of wins over 5 starts? Less than a win, certainly.

[logan82]

rluzinski wrote:

Now, how much is that in terms of wins over 5 starts? Less than a win, certainly.

That's sort of what I was thinking. I think if the difference is that small, we might be better off moving him to the pen for a month and having him for the playoffs.

[kramnoj]

I have no idea how reliable the probable pitchers are at brewers.com, but they already have some of the rotation set. They list CC, Sheets, Parra, Blank, Suppan. If this is the case, I think one of two moves happens: Mota DFA or Dillon sent down. I think it will be Dillon down, he just doesn't have much of a role right now. That would mean McClung starts 7/21.

 

7/23 CC

7/24 Sheets

7/25 Parra

7/26 Bush (could be used as a reliever in the first few games after the ASB)

7/27 Suppan

7/28 CC

7/29 Sheets

7/30 Parra

7/31 Bush

8/1 Suppan

8/2 CC

8/3 Sheets

8/4 Parra

8/5 McClung (he goes two weeks without a start, probably gets a few short relief stints)

8/6 Suppan

8/7 offday

8/8 CC

8/9 Sheets

8/10 Parra

8/11 Bush

8/12 Suppan

8/13 CC

8/14 Sheets

8/15 Parra

8/16 McClung

8/17 Suppan

8/18 CC

8/19 Sheets

8/20 Parra (or put Bush here and Parra goes to BP for a short period to rest his arm and limit innings as some are suggesting)

8/21 offday

8/22 McClung

8/23 Suppan

8/24 CC

8/25 offday

8/26 Sheets

8/27 McClung/Parra

8/28 offday

8/29 Suppan

8/30 CC

8/31 Sheets

9/1 Bush

9/2 McClung/Parra

9/3 Suppan

9/4 CC

9/5 Sheets

9/6 Bush

9/7 McClung/Parra

9/8 Suppan

9/9...

 

I think Yost only goes out a month in advance, so I've done too much anyway, and this is obviously just guesswork. I think they could do it, if they wanted to. Will be interesting to see what develops.

[Fatter than Joey]

I just don't see how this is going to work, in terms of their bullpen availability. It seems like the bullpen would be half an arm short because they periodically would be getting ready for, or resting after, their starts.

 

Here are a few problems...

 

1.) Didn't we have the most road games in the NL in the first 80 games? -- If so McClung would get a lot less starts.

 

2.) What do you do when you have a 10 game road or home stand -- and then go the on the road or come home.

 

3.) "The road" is a composite of 15 parks. I could see maybe singling out one or 2 parks that Bush may really struggle in, but I don't see the logic in saying "Bush sucks on the road", which means the same for a park in SD, and the park in Cincy.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

While I like that you guys are thinking outside of the box by doing a Bush/McClung platoon, but it's just not the best solution right now. Pitchers, like most baseball players are creatures of habit, and throwing them back and forth between the bullpen and being a starter just because you are at home when you are the park you pitch in has nothing in its dimensions that favors a pitcher just doesn't make sense. It's nice to look at the splits and say it's as simple as that, but you have to justify the splits with a logical reason. If someone can give me that logical reason, now we're talking. This isn't one of those "It is what it is" scenarios.

 

I'd part ways with Mota and give Stetter a bigger role in the bullpen if I were managing the roster.

[RU Rah Rah]

It's encouraging to think about maybe putting McClung in the pen and having some able-bodied Nashville lad join him. This would require DFA-ing both Mota and Gagne -- which I have no problem with.