Golfing in Wisconsin (A Smorgasboard Discussion)

[lcbj68c]

Alright, this may be quite lengthy with a ton of questions, but I'm looking to generate some good discussion with regards to golfing in Wisconsin and Milwaukee Metro to be more specific.

 

I have not picked up clubs since leaving Florida last fall. A 7 month winter and a busy start to the baseball season probably had something to do with that. Here are my questions, feel free to answer them all or a few.

 

9 holes? In speaking to people about golf here in Wisconsin, I always hear them say, "On Average, I shoot a 40, 45, 48, 37". In that, they always give me their 9-hole score, rather than 18. I've never went golfing and just played 9 holes, except in the case of rain where a round was cut short. I always go to the course to play a full round. Is that something that happens often here? I like to play with other people, but want to get with the "times" if most just play a leisure 9 holes. You'd think people would want to play more golf considering they only get to play 6 mos a year. Are more people only playing half a round these days? And it's not like it's a time issue, because the same thing happens on the weekends.

 

Cart it or Hike it? In Florida, due to a lot of older people on the course, it's almost mandatory that you take a cart. However, In driving around the area, I see a majority of people walking the course. I dont have a problem walking a course, in fact, if it's not a blistering hot day, I would prefer to walk. Is it generally unacceptable to ask for a cart here in the area? Are most of the courses charging substantially higher rates to use a cart, that nobody is using them? Again, I'd like to go with the majority here, once I arrive at a course. I dont want to get a cart and be up some group's hind end the whole round, nor holding up a group behind me by walking.

 

How do the courses play? I've played golf for about 9 years, about 2 days a week on average, but have never played outside of Florida. Are there any significant differences in the physical nature of the courses with regard to terrain? It's obvious that elevation plays a part on most holes, as Florida is generally flat all 18 holes. How do you compensate for the elevation? Do the greens play faster or slower? What is the composition of most greens? Florida is mostly Bermuda greens.

 

Do you recommend any courses? I'd like to play Whistling Straits, just one time, as I'm sure it's $200 plus. But given today's economy, what are some nice courses at a decent price? And what are some nice courses to splurge on once a month?

 

And lastly, the biggie. My wife-to-be, suddenly has this itch to take up golfing. While I think it is great that she wants to indulge in a new hobby, a sport at that, I can already see the road this may travel. Here's the deal. I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to sports. While, I wouldn't belittle her, I could see myself becoming too instructional and then the both of us just getting frustrated. Any tips on dealing with that? Also, any tips on a beginner set of clubs or courses for the beginner lady?

 

Thanks in advance.

[BillScottCanRake]

I'm from the otherside of the state from you (La Crosse), so I can't recommend any course, but I can comment on a few things.

 

When I played golf somewhat regularly (five-plus years ago), I played 9 holes a couple of times a week after work, and then 18 holes on the weekend. It was simply a matter of time- I didn't have time for 18 on weeknights, but I did on the weekends. A lot of less serious golfers I knew loved playing 9 holes, however. I think 18 is just too many if you are going to shoot 120+, and there are a lot of people out there like that.

 

With regard to Whistling Straits, last time I checked it was 350.00 plus tip for your caddy. Considering I haven't played regularly in a while, that's too much for me to spend. But I was there on Friday when the PGA Championship was there a few years back, and the course is A+ spectacular. If I ever start golfing weekly again, I'll play there someday.

[berniebrewer4life]

Geneva National Has a beautiful course(designed by Palmer, and Trivino(sp?) If i remember correctly.) if you can get in. As does Grand Geneva(a scottish style highlands course that i LOVE to play. Lots of fun and not something you see alot of), both down in Lake Geneva. Not real cheap(both probably run over $100 for 18 last time i checked), but decent courses all the same. I usually take a cart, because my fiance doesn't like to walk, and she has fun driving the cart around. It is not unacceptable to ask for a cart, but there is a charge to use it. I probably see just as many people walking as using a cart when i'm on public courses. If you want to walk it, that's fine too. I have to agree with Chris on the 9 hole thing. I am horrible, so a round of over 90 is not unusual for me to play 18. That's a bit too long for me on weekends because i am so busy(i'm more busy on the weekends than during the week). However, playing 9 holes i can fit in no problem without worry.

[bjkrautk]

I had a nice, long response worked up to this question, but Yuku ate it. The much shorter version...just courses in WI that I like:

 

University Ridge, Madison (student discount actually allowed me to golf it more than once)

Big Fish, Hayward (probably the nicest course I've played....but expensive)

Brown County GC, outside Green Bay (although I was a much worse player back when I used to golf there)

Highland Ridge, Green Bay (inconsistently maintained, but I still like the course layout; my family makes a trip there at least once a year to play the back 9)

 

 

....Still need to play the Sentry World course in Stevens Point; I've heard good things about it. I'd also like to play the course they use for the U.S. Bank Championship (Brown Deer) at some point.

 

lcbj68c, have you tried Brighton Dale Golf Links in Kenosha County? Depending on how far out you consider Milwaukee Metro, the prices are reasonable, and the course has normally been well maintained when I've played there.

[pitchleague]

I don't know much on Milwaukee courses, but the one in Black River Falls, if you ever get up there, is spectacular.

 

I always liked to walk the course because I always golf better when I walk and can "talk to myself" about the upcoming shot while walking; generally, I can think about the game a lot better when i walk the course.

 

Time is the essence of golf. Back in my hey-day of playing golf at least twice a week, 9 holes was just so much easier and I never had time to do the full 18. I do enjoy courses, though, that let you choose if you want to play the front or the back nine.

 

As for the wife, mine tried to get started on it a few years ago, but she stunk at it and quickly gave up. It probably didn't help that I tried to give her advice but it never took.

[Patrick425]

I'm not sure why people tend to give a 9 hole score. I prefer to golf 18 myself. I have not golfed nearly as much in the last 2 or 3 years as I have in the past. My son's involvement in sports and my coaching of his baseball team has taken up alot of my "free time". However, now he is getting more into golf, so we tend to go 9 holes on a late Sunday afternoon. I would also make that suggestion if you are going with your wife who is just taking up the game. The courses tend to be much less crowded on Sunday afternoons after 3:30 or so(assuming that you can not go on a weekday), especially during the football season. Good beginner courses are Grant, Hanson, Brookfield Hills, Moor Downs (Waukesha).

As far as courses you would enjoy as an experienced golfer, I guess it depends on how much you want to spend. If you live in Milwaukee County you can get a county golf card (even if you don't live in the county you can get a card, but it cost more). I forget the cost of the card ($15 a year?). If you use it more than twice it will pay for itself. Many of the County courses are not kept in the greatest of shape because of budget cuts, but some of them (Dretzka, Oakwood) are moderatly challenging. Greenfield, Whitnall, and Currie are enjoyable too, but not anything special and can really get backed up at times during the weekend (mostly by golfers who have no idea of proper golf ettiquette or fast play protocol). I would suggest golfing early (8am or earlier) if golfing a county course during the weekend. The biggest benefit of owning a County Card is the ability to golf Brown Deer for fairly cheap (I think it's about $40 now on weekends). $40 is a very good value for Brown Deer, but I would not suggest paying the non-resident fee ($80+?). You're better off using your money towards other area courses.

Outside of Milwaukee County, Broadview in North Prarie is a very nice course at a very reasonable price. It's not overly challanging, but it's always in good shape (bent grass fairways and greens). Washington County golf course north of Holy Hill is also nice. I have not golfed there in a while, so I'm not sure what they are charging now ($50 maybe?).
Naga Waukee in Waukesha is also a nice course for the money. I think they charge about $35 for a non-resident. Kettle Hills and Edgewood are other options for cheaper accessable courses in the area. Other nice courses in the area are Fire Ridge, Morning Star, and Bristle Cone Pines. However, you are going to start getting up to the $100 range with some of those.

The elite courses in SE WI are obviously the Kohler Courses (Black Wolf Run, Meadows, Irish, and Whistling Straits). I have been fortunate to be able to golf these courses through work connections and have not had to pay. From what I understand, Whistling Straits has started to make getting a room at their resort a prerequisite to getting a tee time. Whistling Straits also requires a caddy that will cost you an extra $40 or so in tips. Erin Hills near Hartford is the newest Elite course in SE WI. The course was built almost entirely using the natural landscape of the area (earth was moved on only 4 holes to build it and if you get a chance to play it, you will not believe it). It has already hosted the Women's public links championships and it has been discussed as a possible future US Open site.

Other courses around SE WI that are a small notch below the Kohler and Erin Hills courses are Geneva National, Grand Geneva, The Bog, and The Bull.

Not sure what courses you are driving by where you are seeing a lot of waking. Most of the county courses are very walkable. Also, be aware that Wisconsinites tend to be very "frugal" with there spending. I don't get a ton of exercise otherwise and so I like to walk and carry my bag when I golf. Some of the "upper end" courses require a cart.

I believe all the greens in Wisconsin are bent grass. I'm not sure, but I believe they tend to play faster than Bermuda grass.

Hope some of this helps.

[RU Rah Rah]

OK, I'm sorry if I have bored everyone with this Whistling Straits story before, but . . .

 

I was teaching in Madison a couple of years ago, and one of my students mentioned that he was from Sheboygan. I had just gone to the PGA at Whistling, and when I mentioned that, the student said he, in fact, worked there, and that if was "ever in the area" he could get me on -- for free. Totally coincidentally, about two weeks later my wife lined up a weeklong house rental on Lake Michigan -- in Cedar Grove, maybe 15-20 min. from Whistling.

 

Long story short -- I played for free. Between greens fees, caddy, and caddy tip, I think it would have set me back maybe $450, easy.

 

The past couple of summers, the student has been in Iraq with the Marines (sort of puts golf in perspective!), and when I have been in the area I have played the Jack Nicklaus course in Sheboygan Falls, The Bull. It's an excellent course -- #3 in the state (behind Whistling and Black Wolf Run, I believe). They have a twilight rate where you can get on at 4 p.m. midweek and play 18 for $50, including cart. It's a really good deal.

 

Anyone in Madison looking for a game, by the way? I am usually up for it.....

[chrisisoutrunning]

I don't know much on Milwaukee courses, but the one in Black River Falls, if you ever get up there, is spectacular.

Skyline! I actually grew up playing that course and eventually, working there for four summers.

 

As for the whole 9 vs 18 thing, I'm going to have to agree that a lot of people don't have time to play 18 except for on the weekends. I play in a small league one night a week, and I'm lucky if I can get in another round each month... but that's what happens when you're a year out of college, working too much, and training for a marathon...

 

I always walk, unless for some reason the course requires a cart, then basically my philosophy is if I've paid for it I'm going to get my money's worth.

 

I've played in both Florida and here of course, and there are differences. The bent grass vs. bermuda basically is the main thing. I remember playing in Florida and having my divots completely explode on me, where as here you'll actually have to replace your divot.

 

I've really only played some of the public courses out in the west suburbs, Western Lakes, Nagawaukee, Wanaki, Silver Spring... all are fine, nothing overly special.

[lcbj68c]

I've played in both Florida and here of course, and there are differences. The bent grass vs. bermuda basically is the main thing. I remember playing in Florida and having my divots completely explode on me, where as here you'll actually have to replace your divot.

Ahh, thanks for the reminder. I can "replace" here rather than fill with the sand mixture. Some "North of Atlanta" rule of thumb I believe.

[dadofandrew]

18 holes takes about 4 hours, doesn't it? That's a big part of your waking hours.

 

I found it so dull I quit after one summer. Just hit the ball to hit it again, as George Carlin said. I just didn't get it.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

18 holes takes about 4 hours, doesn't it? That's a big part of your waking hours.

I found it so dull I quit after one summer. Just hit the ball to hit it again, as George Carlin said. I just didn't get it.I

I'm sorry to hear that. I don't know what I'd do without golf.

[Menotti80]

I hate only getting to play 9 holes. However, if I can only squeeze in 9 after work, I would rather golf 9 holes than 0 holes.

 

As far as using carts, I think more people take carts than you think. I dont mind walking, and I used to walk 95% of the time, but I usually take a cart now-a-days because we are usually pressed for time. I guess don't feel bad taking a cart, as long as you dont mind waiting a bit on every hole and as long as you aren't hitting intot he group in front of you. If there is a group out ther ein the fairway, and if you every think to yourself "should i hit? are they far enough away?" - just wait. even if it would take a 1-in-a-million shot to get it there, it makes more sense to wait and let them get out there. That only means less waiting on the next shot.

 

Its hard to really answer how the courses play because there is such a wide range of courses in southeastern wisconsin. but if you are talking about good, challenging courses, they should play a bit faster in the middle of the summer. and most greens around here are bent-grass. as far as elevation changes, you will find that it is best to play for 5-15 yards more or less for uphill/downhill shots, depending on the severity of the slope. for a moderate elevation change, it's usually 1 more or 1 less club. if i'm in between clubs, play the longer club on an uphill shot.

 

whitsling straits will cost you over $400 with a caddie ($330 + a minimum of $60 for a caddy). the only way to play that course is to play it during twilight. you may barely get your round in, but the cost is significantly less and you may not have to take a caddy. either way, it will still cost more than $200.

 

Before I start listing/recommending courses, I will address the wife thing. If you are worried AT ALL about possible frustrations and squabbles, do not teach her. i have literally seen couples fight and lead to break ups because of a husband/boyfriend teaching wife/girlfriend situations (even though the swore they wouldn't fight about it). personally, i bought my girlfriend a set of clubs last year and have been slowly teaching her how to golf. i was warned by dozens of people, but i am patient when it comes to teaching people things, so i wasn't worried. i purchased a full set (bag included) of pink golf clubs (Adams brand, very nice clubs) for around $300. sets like that will run you from $150 to $800. In my opinion, a $200 complete set is just fine for her if she is serious about taking up golf. As far as the teaching thing, get her a few lessons at a golf store, driving range, or local course. Let a pro teach her a few times. If it should a relatively natural transition, then you can finish the teaching while most of the early struggles were handled by someone else. If she isn't getting it at all, i would get her a few more lessons and be glad you avoided the likely frustrations. Luckily, my g/f is a really good athlete and was somewhat of a natural. she has sort of a softball swing, but within 3 driving range sessions and a few rounds of 9 holes at a par 3 course, she was ready to go to a real course.

 

i will get some course recommendations out in another post. my fingers hurt

[cubfan1126]

This Illinois guy has ventured into Wisconsin on several occasions to play a round or 4.

 

44 of us head up to Fox Hills Resort in Mishicot every year for a weekend of golf. Mishicot is pretty small - about 10 miles north of Manitowoc. 18 hole links style course in excellent condition (used to host a Hooters Tour event) and 3 9 hole parkland courses. We pay about $330 for 3 nights, unlimited golf and cart, and we get 40 "Fox Hills bucks" to spend while there.

 

If you're in the southwestern part of the state, dip down to Eagle Ridge Resort in Galena, IL. The General is the featured course (not cheap but significantly less than Kohler) along with 3 other 18's.

 

I've never played at SentryWorld, but I get a "365 Golf Holes" calendar every year and 1 hole from there, where they plant something like 10000 annuals is featured every time.

[Invader3K]

I used to golf, but basically stopped after I finished college. I think it was partly not being able to find people my own age to golf with, and partly just not having the time or disposable income to do it with the retail job I was working (lots of weekends, etc). I'd also rather sleep in than get up early to golf, assuming I'd have the time (which I usually wouldn't anyway). When I did golf, I usually did 9 holes because it was cheaper, and the course I usually went to (Spring Creek in Cold Spring, outside Whitewater) is only a 9-er anyway.

 

I don't really miss it. It can be a frustrating game, and I tend to get angry if I'm not doing well. Ah well.

[Menotti80]

OK, this list could get long:

 

Personal Favorites, highly recommended (that wont bust your budget):

Lawsonia (Links and Woodlands, Green Lake)

Fire Ridge

Washington Country

Old Hickory (Beaver Dam)

Broadlands

Rainbow Springs

 

Other courses worth playing that aren't too expensive:

Ironwood

Morningstar

Dretzka (Mil Cnty Course)

Oakwood (Mil Cnty Course)

Muskego Lakes

Kettle Hills

 

Other Great Courses Ive Played:

Tuckaway CC

The Bog

Bristlecone Pines

Brown Deer (Mil Cnty Course)

Sentry World

Blackwolf Run (Both)

Irish Course

Grand Geneva and Geneva National (Palmer or Players, cant remember)

 

Great Courses I still want to play:

Straits Course

The Bull

Erin Hills

Wild Rock

University Ridge

The Orchards at Egg Harbor

[homer]

I love Morningstar. It's a beautiful course cut in an old quarry (near Muskego). Not too busy, very well manicured.

 

Fire Ridge is another neat course up in Grafton. Tougher than Morningstar but a lot of fun.

[Menotti80]

Yeah Homer, Fire Ridge has to be one of the most underrated courses in the state (formerly the CC of Wisconsin) simply because of how challenging it is.

 

After playing a round there, you feel like you went a few rounds with a heavyweight fighter, especially from the Tips. It can repeatedly kick your butt if you aren't on your game, and thats what I love about it. That, and their amazing early bird/twilight rates...

[tristarscoop]

Extremely casual golfer here - but I am a big proponent of twilight golfing. Love the cheaper rates and the kind of zen-like relaxation of doing it at the end of the day.

[Menotti80]

another great thing about twilight is that the tempterature gets cooler and usually more confortable towards the end of the round. when you tee off at 8am, the end of the round (when you would be the most tired) can be brutally hot. one downside of twlight... the mosquitos

[Patrick425]

Before I start listing/recommending courses, I will address the wife thing. If you are worried AT ALL about possible frustrations and squabbles, do not teach her. i have literally seen couples fight and lead to break ups because of a husband/boyfriend teaching wife/girlfriend situations (even though the swore they wouldn't fight about it).

To me it's not so much the teaching thing as much as the golf ettiquette, fast play. To me, even if you are a below average or "bad" golfer, you should still be able to keep pace. I'm kind of a stickler for that and nothing drives me more nuts than when my foursome starts falling off pace with the group in front of us and we have a group right on our heels. Like I said, my 10 year old has been learning to golf "bigger" courses this year (i.e Greenfield Park as opposed to Hanson). My biggest frustration with him is trying to get him to keep pace and be ready to hit when it's his turn. It's frustrating because I want him to take his time and focus on hitting a good shot, but then I want him to get to his next shot quickly and be ready. I know my kid gets a little ornery when I am pushing him to pick up the pace, I can only imagine how that goes with a husband and wife.

 

About 10 years ago or so when "Tiger Mania" was in full force the courses were littered with people who had just decided to take up golf on a whim. It seemed that without any practice or thought to it, people went out, purchased top of the line clubs and headed straight for courses that were way above their playing level. Couple that with the complete lack of any type of golf ettiquette or fast play protocol and it was completely maddening. Just have some sense of awareness of your position on the course, where the group in front of you is and where the group behind you is. If you are continuously have trouble keeping pace, then maybe you need to think about moving down a notch or two regarding where you choose to play golf.

 

Maybe I should have posted this in the "What's bugging you" thread.

[Menotti80]

patrick, i totally agree. i made sure not to even bring my g/f to hansen (where 95% of the people are old or hacks - no offense to anyone) until she had 3 range sessions in and she could hit the ball pretty well on a contistant basis.

[FVBrewerFan]

And lastly, the biggie. My wife-to-be, suddenly has this itch to take up golfing. While I think it is great that she wants to indulge in a new hobby, a sport at that, I can already see the road this may travel. Here's the deal. I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to sports. While, I wouldn't belittle her, I could see myself becoming too instructional and then the both of us just getting frustrated. Any tips on dealing with that? Also, any tips on a beginner set of clubs or courses for the beginner lady?

 

Thanks in advance.

Been there, done that. I don't suggest, I demand you have her go take lessons from anyone other than yourself. Ideally, as she's taking lessons she would golf with other friends, or people she meets while taking lessons. If possible, don't play with her until she can shoot around 110 or better, otherwise it's pure agony. But regardless, when you do golf with her, explain to her you will not offer any tips. And you HAVE to stick to that. Just explain you would love to help, but you don't want to give her advice that differs from what her instuctor is telling her. Just relax and do the best you can. (That worked for me.)

 

The only time I had anything critical to say was regarding course etiquette, because you can't (or at least I can't) jsut let that slide. Talking while I'm swinging, walking in my line, etc. It is a mixed blessing having your wife take an interest in golf, believe me.

[Patrick425]

Talking while I'm swinging, walking in my line, etc.

Yeah, my dad has never been a very big golfer and goes with my and my son maybe once or twice a year (He's in his upper 70's now). Every time we go, I get into a discussion with him about waking in another persons line. His argument is that people have been stepping on that line all day, so what does it matter if I do it? I try to explain that A. It's a bit of a distraction and B. It's a freshly "depressed" foot print (He does not wear golf shoes). He just laughs at the thought that some one stepping in your line could be distracting or that a slight foot print depression could make that much of a difference. He's probably right (especially if you are not wearing golf shoes), but it's still something that's just not done. Not sure how to explain that to him.

[lodiness]

The Oaks up by the Madison area is pretty nice, along with University Ridge, and Hawk's Landing (Private Course, but they do have some Public times during the week.) Haven't golfed to much in Milwaukee, but I did go to Fire Ridge. I guess they play a GMO Qualifier there, and it was like $70 with a cart. It was tough, but fun.

[FVBrewerFan]

Right, it's hard to explain to some people. I try to explain the REASON doesn't matter, it's just proper golf etiquette. I will also line-up for a put, then notice my wife already putting (out of turn) out of the corner of my eye. She know when I'm away, I put first. She jsut doesn't think any of it is a big deal. That stuff drives me nuts.