Ned Yost's midseason grade

[TooLiveBrew]

Yeah, I think you're right on Hart -- I'd prefer Ned telling him to stop. Just my preference, as is the case when it comes to bunting a guy that's been seeing the ball as well as Hardy.

[ozzybourne]

Part of the manager's job today does include off the field work, including game preparation, reviewing scouting reports for opponents, talking to the media, and more. talking to the media is a p.r. thing that is part of the job. This p.r. thing may have an effect on the entire organization.

 

Yost has had some issues, and has had some good moments.

 

This topic is for a mid-season grade, and since talking to the media is part of the job, it may indeed be part of the grade. Grade on a curve if you like. Or give talking to the media 10% of the overall grade...whatever. A winning manager can get away with a 'lukewarm' approach to the media. Losing he may not. Lets watch this unfold more as this season goes on. I am not a Yost supporter and I think his media response have kept his grades lower, for me a B- to C+ as stated earlier.

[Thurston Fluff]

However, he will revert back to it in situations where you have to 'bunt the runner over' (think '8th Inning Guy').

 

This is just me thinking out loud so take it for what it's worth. I think this type of rigid thinking is a way of taking emotion and gut feeling out of certain situations. If a person has a set way of handling certain situations, things he thought about and principals he believes in then he should stick to it vs just going with his instinct at the moment. I could see a lot more problems if he managed by the seat of his pants vs just going with his favored strategy in certain situations regardless of who is doing what at the moment. Maybe that rigidness does limit him or hurt on occasion. If he isn't very good at spontaneous decision making it may be better than the alternative. If he actually does realize his weakness in that area that would double the reasons for being so rigid. Just speculative thinking on my part.

[logan82]

TooLiveBrew wrote:

as is the case when it comes to bunting a guy that's been seeing the ball as well as Hardy.

If you are refering to the game we won with a Fielder walkoff, Ned said he was bunting to stay out of the double play with JJ. I don't agree with his choice, but it is one of the few times playing for one run may be a good idea.

[Brew Guzzler]

I'd give Yost a F for chewing sunflower seeds. Can he please put more than one in his mouth at a time?

 

Seriously though Yost isn't a great manager. He does; however, control egos extremely well and get a lot out of most of the young players that enter his clubhouse ie Brady Clark. I completely agree with TooLiveBrew about his greatest strength and weakness is his confidence in his players. However, when it gets to be crunch time I can't imagine Yost blowing a game with a bad decision or winning a game with a good decision.

 

I'm giving Yost a C because he seems to have great relationships with his players, but not so good with the media. I don't think you can give him a worse grade because after a poor start we are now in the playoff hunt and you can't ask for a whole lot more than that.

[TooLiveBrew]

If you are refering to the game we won with a Fielder walkoff, Ned said he was bunting to stay out of the double play with JJ. I don't agree with his choice, but it is one of the few times playing for one run may be a good idea.

 

That was one instance, yes... but not the only one. Clearly it worked there (& your 'play for one run' point has definite merit), but I try not to use outcomes to say 'See? It was the right move' (not saying you do, logan).

[logan82]

TooLiveBrew wrote:

That was one instance, yes... but not the only one. Clearly it worked there (& your 'play for one run' point has definite merit), but I try not to use outcomes to say 'See? It was the right move' (not saying you do, logan).

I didn't agree with his move, as I stated. I was just trying to point out that he did explain himself in this one instance. I probably should have been more clear about that. I also thought the other manager made an equally dumb move by IBBing Braun to set up the double play. Sorry, off topic.

[ozzybourne]

I think the rapport on this team does speak to something (at least a little something) that Ned contributes. The players genuinely enjoy being together (check out the Mets' drama this season, ugh), and that can't be ignored when evaluating the job a manager does....

 

I think Yost is above average in terms of clubhouse/player management, average to above-avg. in terms of gameplanning (the 'Sunday' lineups suck, & sometimes -- as mentioned -- he rests guys on the 'wrong' days), and well below-average in terms of in-game adjustments/creating matchups.

 

Ironically, what I find his biggest strength (confidence in players) can also be his biggest weakness.

Great summary.

 

There does seem to be a little something different this year with ned, and as someone pointed out earlier, it may be the 'simmons effect'.

 

 

(fixed code --1992)

[logan82]

There does seem to be a little something different this year with ned, and as someone pointed out earlier, it may be the 'simmons effect'.

 

I said before the season that if Yost made improvements this year it would be attributed to Simmons by some people. I wish I had been wrong.

[ozzybourne]

There does seem to be a little something different this year with ned, and as someone pointed out earlier, it may be the 'simmons effect'.

 

I said before the season that if Yost made improvements this year it would be attributed to Simmons by some people. I wish I had been wrong.

---------------------

 

As I said, it MAY be. Maybe there has been no improvement. Maybe the something different I point out is less coffee.

 

What are you saying?

[Bucky Rules]

I said before the season that if Yost made improvements this year it would be attributed to Simmons by some people. I wish I had been wrong.

As I said, it MAY be. Maybe there has been no improvement. Maybe the something different I point out is less coffee.

 

What are you saying?

It doesn't matter. If Simmons gets credit for helping Ned make better decisions than when Sveum was the bench coach, I'm good with that. If that's the case, Ned deserves credit for bringing Simba in. If you want to credit Melvin with bringing Simba in, then Ned deserves credit for being one of the few guys in the league that Simmons would've worked for in this capacity. Any way you look at it, Ned should come out of it OK.

 

 

(cleaned up quote and shortened it slightly --1992)

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

While I do think the Simmons effect is having a positive influence and can be attributed to some of his better managerial performance this year, don't get me wrong here...I do give Ned full credit for bringing him in. I think Ned and especially Melvin felt there were shortcomings in his performance last year. I believe there were even some public statements about bullpen usage. He also frankly lost his cool a few times...the umps in the Braves series and the LaRussa incident. Both times he was bated into it...yet his baseball machismo got the best of him. Sveum was right there with him egging him on. In that respect I do give Simmons a great deal of credit...and to Ned for realizing he needed the help.

 

The coffee is a huge untold story too...how many people do you know drink 14 cups of coffee per day and are normal. Ned - get some decaf in the clubhouse, you'll feel better, trust me.

[Bucky Rules]

how many people do you know drink 14 cups of coffee per day and are normal. Ned - get some decaf in the clubhouse, you'll feel better, trust me.

If he goes decaf now, he'll crash for 20 years. Ned Van Winkle.

 

EDIT: ... allow me to beat some to the punchline...

 

 

"we can only hope"

 

or...

 

"so, exactly how would that be different from now?"

[TooLiveBrew]

I must say I'm pleasantly surprised by all the constructive discussion in this thread. I admit when I first saw the thread I thought it wouldn't last long, and also thought it'd turn into NedVent2.0. This is the sound, objective discussion of Yost many have been hoping to get for some time now. Glad to see its legs have stood up. Kudos ozzybourne, and the many who've contributed their takes without venom or extreme bias!

 

 

If that's the case, Ned deserves credit for bringing Simba in. If you want to credit Melvin with bringing Simba in, then Ned deserves credit for being one of the few guys in the league that Simmons would've worked for in this capacity. Any way you look at it, Ned should come out of it OK.

 

Iirc, Yost was the one that went after Simba. If anyone remembers or can show that wasn't the case, please do correct me. I agree with logan that it seems the 'credit' in some cases is going to Ted, so it's fair to give Ned a thumbs-up for having the foresight to get Simmons on board.

 

In any event, the managing this season certainly appears to be better than last season's. That's really all that matters, even though we micro-scrutinize (nearly) every decision that's made.

[logan82]

In any event, the managing this season certainly appears to be better than last season's.

I agree that the managing appears better, but I am still trying to decide whether it is because of having a better pen or better use of the players at Yost's disposal. I am leaning towards better relief pitchers and our starters covering more innings which limits the number of middle innings that have to be covered by lesser pitchers. More pitchers in the pen that can cover multiple innings vs one and done relievers. Good relievers covering more innings vs a good reliever covering one inning then having to be pulled for a lesser reliever because they can't go more than an inning.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I thought in tonight's game bringing in Torres when he did was a clear example of Ned changing. He didn't just bring him in for the save, he brought him in for the highest leverage situation. It almost worked...but I think credit is due to Yost for making that move. Correct me if I am wrong, but this has been one of TLB's big arguments that I wholeheartedly agree with...bring the best pitcher in at the most critical point in the game regardless of inning or save situation.

[logan82]

True, he hasn't typically brought in his closer for more than 4 outs very often, but we are talking about a different type of reliever in this case. CoCo was a one inning reliever. Torres is a multi inning reliever. Yost is managing to his player's strengths this year. I am not sure he didn't last year though.

[cwolf2012]

Cordero had several 1.1 inning saves for sure. I'm not sure if he had any 1.2 inning games, but he wasn't just a single inning pitcher. That was Turnbow.

[logan82]

Cordero had several 1.1 inning saves for sure. I'm not sure if he had any 1.2 inning games, but he wasn't just a single inning pitcher. That was Turnbow.

4 saves of more than one inning. 5 appearances of more than one inning. None longer than 4 outs. This in 66 appearances. He looks like a one inning pitcher to me.

[Gormans sideburns]

I gave him a D earlier, and after reading everyone's very good posts, nothing has changed my mind. Yes he's a jerk to the media and his answers in post-game press conferences sound like a 9th grader talking about his friends, but that part of his personality doesn't carry fully to the field. What I've never liked about Yost is that he shows absolutely NO FIRE when he's in the dugout. Just once I'd like to see him slam a clipboard down or at least look angry when someone makes a boneheaded baserunning error. Instead he just stands there chewing on seeds like nothing bothers him. I'm not saying he has to scream and yell every game, or get in anyone's face, but let the players know what they did isn't acceptable. Last year at the end of the season when he was arguing at calls every day is what I want to see from a manager. Piniella is a jerk to media plus he gets fired up during a game and isn't afraid to show is emotions in the dugout and on the field. THAT is what I want to see from a manager. If someone makes an error, call him out on it. Don't blame the game on him, but don't make excuses about what the player did. Just my two cents.

[naivin]

What I've never liked about Yost is that he shows absolutely NO FIRE when he's in the dugout. Just once I'd like to see him slam a clipboard down or at least look angry when someone makes a boneheaded baserunning error.

Why? What exactly do you think would be gained were he to do that? What do you believe that will translate to in terms of wins and losses?

[jazzytrav]

That sounds more like Yost Thread material.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Gorman...I respectfully disagree with that comment. Here's why...this is a young, aggressive, fired up team already. If anything, they need to stay calm. Guys like Ski, Simba, Sedar, Billy C are all mellow guys. Ned is more firery, but I think keeps himself in control to send that signal of confidence to his team. I think that's a smart move on his part. When he does need to get fired up, it will carry more weight.

[ozzybourne]

the force is with you skywalker

[phxMILWfan]

I give him a half empty cup of coffee on the Ned Yost rating scale.