Ned Yost's midseason grade

[Bruce Ciskie]

By the way, I never did assign a grade. As much as it pains me, because I still cringe at the thought of this team in a pennant race with Yost pulling the strings, I give him a C+.

 

It goes higher if he can find a way to figure out this bullpen thing. I'd also like to see him use Rivera more, because I have this fear that Kendall will realize his age at some point and start to wear down at a really bad time.

[naivin]

I'd also like to see him use Rivera more, because I have this fear that Kendall will realize his age at some point and start to wear down at a really bad time.

 

Funny because I was just thinking the same thing the AM. However, I am going to assume that between Yost, Simmons, Maddux, Melvin, and Kendall himself, there will be enough eyes on teh situation to manage it effectively.

[mark brouhard is number on]

This is a really good discussion and the feedback is well thought out, I wish more of the discussions could be like this one, too often it gets out of hand. I see your point and agree that sometimes he could be more forthcoming in his answering questions of the media, but as long as he is addressing the obvious concerns internally, then that is all I care about. I would rather have him answer questions poorly to the media and be forthcoming with players internally, than be eloquent with the media and have no idea how to address the players

[sheethead]

I bump Ned up to a C+ for not using Mota yesterday.

[TheCrew07]

Bruce could it be that you think how a manager/coach deals with the media is important because you're a member of the media? Don't you work for a radio station in Duluth? I would think that you'd be more sensitive to the way he handles the media because of your chosen profession, where as I could care less. It's a 162 game season and in my opinion it really is as simple as guys having a bad night. If there was a way to predict when a player would have a horrible night, everyone would bat .300 or have an ERA under 4. I honestly could care less what Yost says in a post game conference, they aren't meaningful, it's fluff in my opinion.

 

I've been on record many times saying Yost's bullpen management is the one thing that drives me nuts. I hate defined roles (with the exception of the closer), but I do think he's very slowly learning how to manage the pen better.

 

B- from me.

[tristarscoop]

I was one of the first to bring up the media thing in this thread (I think) and I will reiterate that I don't think that makes Ned a worse manager, I just think it makes him a (insert not nice word here). And I think it speaks to an overall attitude that I have a problem with. I see his smart-alec answers as a defensive attitude that comes out any time someone questions him. I think he acts like it's ridiculous that someone would question a move he's made and I find that bothersome. Does he think he's infallible? Is he that unsure of his decisions? Does he think his position is that precarious that anyone pointing out mistakes is going to cause problems for him? Or is he just a "not nice" person? What is is that makes him think that he's above being questioned?

[mark brouhard is number on]

I think it comes from being questioned for 162 games that probably waers on any manager. Also having to answer the same questions night in and night out will probably cause anyone to not think about the answers given and just spout off the most basic answer. If he's not a nice person to the media, that doesn't mean he's a bad person. Heck with some of the dumb questions the media asks i"m surprised any manager can tolerate them. I know there are good reporters, but their are also a ton of hacks out there who want to bait and get people angry.

[Bruce Ciskie]

Bruce could it be that you think how a manager/coach deals with the media is important because you're a member of the media? Don't you work for a radio station in Duluth? I would think that you'd be more sensitive to the way he handles the media because of your chosen profession, where as I could care less.

Sure could. After all, there's nothing worse than watching people simply do their jobs, only to get Ned treating them like they're the crap that got on his shoe when he walked on the wrong part of the lawn.

 

I am not going to apologize for seeing something wrong with a reporter asking a reasonable question about the team playing terrible defense over a stretch of games, only to get "Well, the Red Sox made a bunch of errors tonight, too" sniped back at them as if they had done something wrong. Sorry, sir. The question was about YOUR team defense. Not Boston's or Chicago's or anyone else. And there's a money shot that it came from a reporter who covers the Brewers, and therefore doesn't give a rip about the Red Sox making errors.

 

So, yeah, bias is admitted. We all have biases, and mine happens to be - in this case - pro-media. Read my blog, however, and you'll find that I'm not blindly pro-media at all.

[tristarscoop]

I think it comes from being questioned for 162 games that probably waers on any manager. Also having to answer the same questions night in and night out will probably cause anyone to not think about the answers given and just spout off the most basic answer. If he's not a nice person to the media, that doesn't mean he's a bad person. Heck with some of the dumb questions the media asks i"m surprised any manager can tolerate them. I know there are good reporters, but their are also a ton of hacks out there who want to bait and get people angry.

They do a lot of things for 162 games that I'm sure they don't like. But it's his job - he's a in the public eye - and he's getting paid very handsomely to do so.

 

[mark brouhard is number on]

his job is to manage the team, talking to the media is a very minute part of his real job. these post game press conferences are mainly just so people watch and more advertising revenue can be generated anyway, same with the pre game shows.

[Bruce Ciskie]

his job is to manage the team, talking to the media is a very minute part of his real job. these post game press conferences are mainly just so people watch and more advertising revenue can be generated anyway, same with the pre game shows.

No, the postgame press conferences are so the reporters have a single, centralized place to ask the manager specific questions about things that happened in the game.

 

They are televised to get people to watch and so there can be advertising revenue generated, but they were going on long before they were ever televised or put on the radio.

[areacodes]

and many still choose to give him less than even an average grade, pretty much for one reason -- they made up their minds long ago that he was a bad manager due to how the Brewers played with bad players, and are unwilling to look at him objectively.

Thanks for filling us in on how our collective minds work, and the utter simplicity behind our reasoning. I'm glad you have been able to totally shield yourself from the thousands of posts dissecting and analyzing all aspects of Ned's managerial tenure, and very un-objectively (I know, I noticed the irony too) decide you know the "one reason" some people are grading him poorly.

He didn't say everybody who is against Yost is that way, he said many and maybe he should have only said some. I know there are posters (FTJ for instance) who have been against Yost for years, but there are others (as some of the grading in this thread indicates) who seem unwilling to give him the least amount of credit (we have the 2nd best record in the NL and lead the Wildcard and he's still getting F's... If that is failing then boy did I get ripped off in high school).

 

I don't agree with moves Ned makes a lot and it really is frustrating to watch (especially when you think you know the correct move) but I always try to tell myself that I don't know everything that is going on. How am I suppose to know if Riske's shoulder is a little sore or that CV needs the night off because he's jumping center for the Bucks? At the same time, when I watch other baseball games I shake my head just as much at things the other managers do.

I'd grade Yost at about a B (in the 83-85% range right now) since I don't always agree with his moves but at the same time the players appear to like him, he has this team in the hunt for the Wildcard and Division, and I personally love how he handles the media... It makes me laugh

[MillerParkSouth]

I think he's getting better at pulling the plug on certain guys (Turnbow, Gagne, Mota, Hall) although his seeming inability to really try anyone else at lead off besides Rickie is kind of annoying.

 

I think it's a great sign that everyone is happy and that after the whole Boston disaster we didn't completely go into the dumps and actually started playing better. I hate to say it, but I think he's improving as a manager. I think a lot of the failures of this team fall on Melvin for not building a better bullpen, for example, than Yost. That said, i'm still not a huge fan.

[mark brouhard is number on]

that is true. my main point was that they are on TV now to generate revenue, and while they have been around for a long time, now that they are on TV, people can be even more critical of a manager for what is mostly inconsequential material. i'm sure when they weren't on TV mamny, many managers acted even worse than Ned. A fan may think that he is entitled to a better answer than he gets, but in reality he is not.

[datrain711]

People may not like his postgame arrogance, but that has nothing to do with his abilities as a manager.

 

I would give Yost a solid B. With the way this team has played, and the way we are assembled, we couldn't have asked for a much better 1st half to the season. Whoever mentioned before that Yost is getting graded on this board for how he managed the past few years is right on.

 

For all the severe Yost bashers...do you honestly believe we should be performing a lot better the way this team is constructed?

[yount19.u]

As of today we're in the playoffs and that deserves no less than a B grade. That's Yost's job and he's doing it after a slow start this year. Considering the inconsistency of this club all year, I'd say Yost is doing just fine. Did anyone pay attention to how Bob Melvin managed the D-Backs against the Brewers? He's last years manager of the year and I don't think Yost could have mismanaged the lineup that bad if he tried. If the Brewers miss the playoffs this year, I would agree with Yost getting the pink slip as that was the main goal of this season. If they make they playoffs (it certainly looks good so far), he has accomplished that main goal and deserves some credit for it.

[TooLiveBrew]

I just don't think Yost knows the difference between a good result, and good execution.

 

This is one of my biggest concerns with Ned.

 

 

What's funny about that?

 

Nothing. I never said anything was funny about it.

 

 

Seems to me those that have made up their minds that Ned is bad want to have it both ways...He was bad back then - and was the reason they have been bad, but now that the players are better, so we still don't have to give him any credit, or consider him competent.

 

That does nothing to address my question, compounded with making broad-sweeping assumptions about what I think (that also happen to be completely untrue)

 

 

Silly question, but no, many here in the lunatic fringe would give him an F,

 

Keep your insults to yourself. This was a nice discussion until you got ugly. I gave Yost an average grade because -- gasp! -- he's an average manager.

 

 

Is this the point where someone throws out the term strawman?

 

Apparently.

[datrain711]

TooLiveBrew wrote:

 

Seems to me those that have made up their minds that Ned is bad want to have it both ways...He was bad back then - and was the reason they have been bad, but now that the players are better, so we still don't have to give him any credit, or consider him competent.

 

That does nothing to address my question, compounded with making broad-sweeping assumptions about what I think (that also happen to be completely untrue)

 

he says "seems to me" so he is just giving his impression of what HE THINKS the rational is behind people blasting Yost. He is NOT declaring that he knows why you and others have your opinion on Yost, just his impression of why you do.

 

There is nothing wrong with that statement. Just like there is nothing wrong with yours. I happen to agree with him that people will refuse to give Ned any credit even if we do make the playoffs, but hey, that's only my opinion.

 

And I for one think that a huge percentage of what goes on this board is assumption-based. A lot of times we don't have the facts behind why someone has a certain opinion or acts a certain way, so aren't we allowed to make an assumption as long as it is clarified that we aren't stating it as a fact.

[ozzybourne]

Does anyone else think Simmons has helped the Yost stubborness factor? He was extremely stubborn last year, but has been less so this year. I think Sveum has a similar personality to Ned and it compounded the issue. Since Simmons has a more calming personlity and has nothing to gain or lose by being brutally honest with Ned, I'm guessing he's been able to make progress on Ned.

 

----------------------------

 

I agree with you here. This may be the big, unspoken secret this year. Ned may be influenced simply by his presence or by his advice or both. Great point.

[olliegjw]

This media relation point is baffling to me. So, if Ned treated the media better, the Brewers would have how many more wins? My educated guess is zero. Managers get judged for on-field performance, and currently the Brewers are 2nd in the division, and first in the wild card.

 

How would you guys treat someone who spread rumors to co-workers, family, and everyone else that you were being fired? How many media members have apologized to Yost for saying/writing that he was fired after the Boston series? To speculate is one thing, but to report as fact (when wrong) is unethical.

[Bruce Ciskie]

I happen to agree with him that people will refuse to give Ned any credit even if we do make the playoffs, but hey, that's only my opinion.

 

And I for one think that a huge percentage of what goes on this board is assumption-based. A lot of times we don't have the facts behind why someone has a certain opinion or acts a certain way, so aren't we allowed to make an assumption as long as it is clarified that we aren't stating it as a fact.

 

 

1. Bob Brenly won a World Series with Arizona, and I still think he was a terrible manager.

2. You know what happens when you assume? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[datrain711]

This media relation point is baffling to me. So, if Ned treated the media better, the Brewers would have how many more wins? My educated guess is zero. Managers get judged for on-field performance, and currently the Brewers are 2nd in the division, and first in the wild card.

 

How would you guys treat someone who spread rumors to co-workers, family, and everyone else that you were being fired? How many media members have apologized to Yost for saying/writing that he was fired after the Boston series? To speculate is one thing, but to report as fact (when wrong) is unethical.

Hey come on now!!!

 

Yost's media relations have cost us at least 5 wins

His inability to stop us from having 6 of the top 38 in the NL in strikeouts also has cost us 5 games.

He also is the main reason we have a low batting average and struggle manufacturing runs.

 

 

In fact we probably would have 70 wins with a better manager http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/tired.gif

 

 

Hey lets face it Ned isn't perfect and has made his fair share of mistakes. Its always easier to remember the bad losses thent he solid victories. But are people really giving him D- and F grades?? What would he have to do to get even a passing grade then? Do people think this team is underperforming THAT much?

 

 

[Bruce Ciskie]

How would you guys treat someone who spread rumors to co-workers, family, and everyone else that you were being fired? How many media members have apologized to Yost for saying/writing that he was fired after the Boston series? To speculate is one thing, but to report as fact (when wrong) is unethical.

 

1. Ned was treating the media like crap long before that happened. The example I've most often brought up in this particular discussion happened two days before that rumor was spread.

 

2. No one knows how many media members have apologized. How many media members reported he was being fired? Haudricourt simply relayed the rumor that was spreading like wildfire, admitted he didn't know anything, and then did some reporting on that situation. I don't know of a single report, outside of the one from Badger Blogger, that said Ned was being fired. The only media coverage of that story was simply relaying the initial rumor, something we have to allow the media to do.

[datrain711]

2. You know what happens when you assume? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

I'm already a big enough idiot so assuming things isn't going to hurt my cause too muchhttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

I understand both sides of the Yost argument, although I guess I tend to be easier on him than others just because I look at the relationship between the talent on a team and the team's performance. I think the Brewers are talented, but they are not as good of a team as the Cubs. Therefore, I think (assume) we are right where we are supposed to be.

 

oops, i did it againhttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

 

(edit: long nested quote --1992)

[datrain711]

Ok although i've posted too much on this subject, I just want to add that I think Ned acts like a jerk almost all of the time. For me his likeability factor is F-, but I do think he is a good fit for this team.