Cubs acquire Rich Harden and Chad Gaudin for Gallagher, Patterson, Murton and Donaldson

[istanbultaye]

I dunno, I just looked up some of these guys, and Gallagher looks to be about one (maybe one and a half) steps below Gallardo in comparison. They are about the same age, with Gallardo having a better year last year (and his 2 starts this year) than Gallegher had the last year and this year. Basically, how would you all have felt if we gave up Manny Parra (again, better than gallagher, but not running away) as the centerpiece for Sabathia?

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I really wonder what the Brewers scouts think of this one. My guess is they were watching Harden.

 

If he's healthy...they have answered the CC trade for less. If not...all of their snide comments about Sheets will come back to haunt them.

 

Part of me thinks they got great value...another part of me thinks they just did the '07 Linebrink trade.

[giffted1]

That is an extreme over-statement. Harden making 6 starts is not worth Sean Gallagher let alone Murton and Patterson. Know I think this is a great deal for the Cubs but if CC only netted us two more wins according to rluz Harden for half his starts would net at most one.

If Harden misses starts, they'll still have Gaudin who has been more than serviceable filling in as a starter. Plus the Cubs will still have Harden next year.

[jjfanec]

If the concerns about him already having a dead arm are true this deal makes a little more sense, but I am not going to criticize the Cubs at all for make a deal I would have loved. Harden is in line for some arm fatigued with how little he has pitched the last three years. In his MLB career he has only pitched over 126 innings once. He is already at 77 so he might be hitting his limit.

[crewcrazy]

Every pitcher is conceivably one pitch from the DL, though. As giffted said, even if Harden only makes half of his starts the rest of the season, this is a pretty good deal for the Cubs -- they didn't really lose anything that was of value to them, and they didn't even really need to make this trade.

 

It'll definitely make things interesting down the stretch...maybe we'll see a CC/Harden match-up somewhere down the road. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[TooLiveBrew]

Harden's last 4 starts:

 

6/20 v. FLA: 5.2 IP, 5 H, 1 R, 2 BB/5 K (98 P)

 

6/26 v. PHI: 8 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 1 BB/11 K (95 P)

 

7/1 @ LAA: 5 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 1 BB/5 K (91 P)

 

7/6 @ CHW: 5 IP, 5 H, 3 R, 4 BB/4 K (93 P)

 

 

This means Rich's next start would (likely) be 7/10 v. CIN, and the only one he'll make before the ASG.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

It's tough for me to see the Cubs not making the playoffs. Maybe they even factored in Harden going on the DL for awhile and getting ready for the playoffs. Maybe it was more about playoff series matchups with the Brewers, Phillies or D-backs that put them over the edge.

[dvoiss]

That was my first reaction. However, Gallagher is young and could improve, but looking at immediate impact to the A's, I pondered if Bush and 3 low prospects could have seriously got Harden from the A's.

 

 

This is what bothers me most about this deal. We probably could have easily bettered this offer even after the CC deal if Melvin had talked to Beane. I just can't believe they made this happen so quickly after the CC deal. Unbelieveable. Well, hopefully Doug has another card up his sleeve.

[crewcrazy]

This is what bothers me most about this deal. We probably could have easily bettered this offer even after the CC deal if Melvin had talked to Beane. I just can't believe they made this happen so quickly after the CC deal. Unbelieveable. Well, hopefully Doug has another card up his sleeve.

Jim Hendry is denying that this move was made as a response to the Sabathia trade. According to him, he's been talking to Billy Beane for weeks, with things intensifying about 10 days ago. It wouldn't surprise me if the Sabathia trade caused a little more urgency in the trade talks, though.

With that said, I wonder what Beane wants for Huston Street. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Big Cat Dad]

But if Harden stays healthy, he's as good as Sabathia - maybe better. The nice thing is that he hasn't thrown over 100 innings since 2005. And he's now thrown more innings this year than he did the last two combined. I wouldn't be surprised if he fades a bit in September.

Harden is better than Sabathia when healthy and it's not even close. I think Harden is the most unhittable pitcher in baseball when healthy...of course that's a big "when". I think it's a great trade for the cubs and wish we would have gotten Harden instead of Sabathia. This just show's how much Melvin overpayed for Sabathia....and to think some of you were calling for Melvin to part with another one of our top prospects?

 

Melvin got fleeced and if Harden stays healthy the Cubs have dramatically increased their playoff chances.

[TooLiveBrew]

With that said, I wonder what Beane wants for Huston Street.

 

Whatever bullpen arm(s) Doug does target, I'd like to see that sooner rather than later... before the bidding escalates & said RP(s) have less time to help the Brewers. I'd bet Melvin is still very much hard at work on the phones.

[giffted1]

With that said, I wonder what Beane wants for Huston Street.

Turnbow and a bag of magic beans?

 

Seriously though, if Harden was available Street probably would be as well, and the Crew can certainly get him if this is the type of deal Beane is looking for.

[Schlitz001]

Are Harden's WOAHs related to quirky mechanics? Or has it just been random pitching injuries?

Harden has a pretty agressive delivery and I think all three of his major injuries have been related to his delivery or follow through. His injury last year was a UCL sprain, which involved the ligament involved in Tommy John surgery. Link to injury history. It's pretty feasible that he'll be out before the season ends. These don't seem like freak vestibular neuritis type injuries.

[BCZF]

Dm isint standing pat on this one..

 

And if Beane jumps at a trade this early in the game, caveat emptor....

 

I'm playin wait and see with this, but as usual there are those who will be poppin an extra Xanax tonight..

[mkm13]

Harden is better than Sabathia when healthy and it's not even close. This just show's how much Melvin overpayed for Sabathia....and to think some of you were calling for Melvin to part with another one of our top prospects?

 

Melvin got fleeced and if Harden stays healthy there is simply no way we can beat the Cubs.

How can you say CC is not close to as good as Harden when healthy? Last year CC was amazing. If you take CC's 1st 4 starts away this year his numbers are just as good as Harden's. You know little about baseball if you say there is "no way" we can beat the cubs.

[derflotr]

So this means we can get Blanton for like, Crabbe and Nix right?

[TooLiveBrew]

Harden has a pretty agressive delivery and I think all three of his major injuries have been related to his delivery or follow through.

 

Thanks, Schlitz. I thought I remembered that Harden's delivery was pretty violent. I will not hope for an injury... I will, however, say that an injury would not surprise me. The Cubs are going to have to be very careful in how they use him.

 

 

So this means we can get Blanton for like, Crabbe and Nix right?

 

I think people are underrating Gallagher (I used to myself) & Donaldson. Beane got what he wanted here imo -- a good quantity of prospects, with two potentially good-quality guys at the top of the deal.

[And That]

The Brewers probably strengthened their chances at the playoffs by trading for Sabathia, the Cubs possibly strengthened theirs by trading for Harden. There may well be two spots in the playoffs to be had between the two teams, so I don't see this as directly affecting the Brewers' playoff chances. If St. Louis had traded for Harden and Gaudin, I might be more worried.

[rotoherb]

The Cubs trading Gallagher would be comparable to the Brewers trading Manny Parra as part of the deal. Gallagher is still just 22 years old and had a 2.84 ERA with a 67/22 K/BB ratio in 69.2 Triple-A innings.

 

I guess the question becomes if everyone here would have been OK with trading Parra along with three other prospects for Rich Harden, say Tony Gwynn, Chris Errecart and Jonathon Lucroy (just for kicks, I'm not trying to match things up evenly). I don't think it seems like quite the steal for the Cubs after you put it into that context.

[SeriesFinale]

NSBB poster: "They [As fans on another board] weren't too concerned because of his injury history. He has been just as hurt as Sheets."

 

Hurt AS Sheets? Big Ben is Cal Ripken compared to Harden

[Big Cat Dad]

mkm13[/b]]

How can you say CC is not close to as good as Harden when healthy? Last year CC was amazing. If you take CC's 1st 4 starts away this year his numbers are just as good as Harden's. You know little about baseball if you say there is "no way" we can beat the cubs.

I was being a little overly dramatic about the "Can't catch the Cubs" statement. Just voicing my displeasure for the Sabathia trade and feeling we gave up WAY to much. I'll stand by my statement that Harden is superior to Sabathia when healthy.

 

Oh......you can't just "Take away" starts from pitchers stats....doesn't quite work that way.

[mkm13]

I'll stand by my statement that Harden is superior to Sabathia when healthy.

 

Oh......you can't just "Take away" starts from pitchers stats....doesn't quite work that way.

I never said Harden wasn't better. I just took his 1st 4 starts away to show you it is much closer than what you were making it out to be. It is close...unlike what you said.

[Hate those Rodents]

Scrubs get Harden next year too by doing the obvious and picking up his nine million dollar option for 2009, correct?

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

What would our equivalents have been to get Harden/Gaudin?

 

I'll take a stab at describing how good the players are in Brewer-centric terminology, though I'm not going to try to say what the offer would have had to have been to one-up the Cubs.

 

Gallagher = Parra, but with significantly less upside (offset some by lower injury risk). Or, Villy, but with 1 year less service time.

 

Murton = Cole Gillespie 4 years in the future with his pre-arb years burned. Or, a RH Gabe Gross with better hitting but worse defense.

 

Patterson = Hernan Iribarren, with better hitting but worse defense (nobody seems sure he's good enough to play 2B in the majors).

 

Donaldson = Lucroy, if instead of tearing up low A and high A this year he had come in and utterly failed to hit.

 

All in all, I think people are underestimating the players the Cubs gave up a little bit, but I'll admit there is nothing dazzling in there. I think Gaudin is pretty marginal (walked 100 last year and has been much better in a pitcher-friendly home park than on the road), so this trade entirely hinges on whether Harden can stay in the rotation.

[DHonks]

Harden to the Cubs makes me feel good. The A's traded Haren and he's done well so far. But long term, the only really good pitcher post-trade has been Harang. After moving on (in trade or signing) Zito, Hudson (good, but injured a few times), and Mulder have all been letdowns.