Ray Durham -- Latest: Trade completed? Ford and Hammond to the Giants for sure, no Taschner

[splitterpfj]

As with all things, not everyone is going to see this deal the same way.

 

For me, I think it's outstanding. We all know this team is heavy with right-handed bats, and light in OBP.

 

Durham, vs right-handers, 2008:

.318 AVE, .396 OBP, .446 SLG

 

I can't imagine how adding a veteran switch-hitter, with leadoff skills and above average speed, could be a bad thing for this team.

[MoneyballMan]

I think you're spot-on, Splitter. I would have liked to have Taschner in the deal as well, but adding Durham won't be a bad move. Just wish they could have announced this morning so we could see him leading off today! Guess he'll start before national TV audience tomorrow (if I saw that ESPN was telecasting correctly).

[Brewer Fever]

I'm not seeing the downside of adding a guy with a .396 OBP versus righties (.385 overall) to go with a guy who's carrying a .322 OBP yet holds a .380 OBP vs. lefties.

 

That's a solid .380 / .396 on base platoon you've got there for a couple of guys you project as 24th, 25th men at best on a major league roster right now.

[MoneyballMan]

So, assuming this happens, does everyone agree that there is 0% chance we could sign him for another year or two?

...or that we'd even care to sign him at the price he'd come in at? The Raykie platoon may just work out, but probably too expensive to reprise next year?

[Samurai Bucky]

I hope Rickie gets the message here. I really want to see him succeed at Milwaukee.

[hauser42]

Taschner is no help to this team Shouse and Stetter are better pitchers than him. Durham brings some leadership, defense at 2B, and a late game pinch runner if needed.

[Crewin06]

So if the Brewers offer him arbitration is he guaranteed his salary this year? I don't think he is.

 

Since he is a type B free agent a team does not have to give anything up to sign him, so is their any chance the Brewers get a draft pick out of him? Do you think someone will sign him before the Brewers need to make a decision on him?

[Fatter than Joey]

Since he is a type B free agent a team does not have to give anything up to sign him, so is their any chance the Brewers get a draft pick out of him?

 

We'd have to offer Durham Arby's, and he would have to decline it -- he would likely accept it -- therefore we aren't going to get picks in all likelihood.

[splitterpfj]

I believe the biggest pay cut a veteran can be given by his old team is 20%, which would put Durham at a minimum of 6 million next year. If they offered him arby, and he declined, to sign elsewhere, the Brewers would get a pick out of it, but if he accepted arby, you've got an expensive 37-year-old on your hands.

 

I would imagine they'll either let him go, or at the very least, get an assurance that he wouldn't accept arby.

 

If there's an AL team that would use the DH spot on a leadoff guy, Durham would be a great one-year pickup for next season.

[endaround]

"defense at 2B"

 

Compared to Dillon maybe, but his defense would be behind Weeks, Counsell, and Hall.

 

The Brewers might get picks if a team signs Durham before the arby deadline if he's a Type B because there is no cost to the signing team. If he's a Type A there is no chance.

[gregmag]

I like this deal fine, because it allows the Brewers to sit Weeks against tough righties and hopefully bring him out of his funk (which may be happening already, but it's way too soon to get happy). The tradeoff for Durham's defense will be fine in those situations -- assuming Ned spots him properly -- and at other times Durham's just the lefty bench bat we need. I still believe Weeks will hit, and this is exactly the level of fix that I think his current problems warrant. Plus, as everyone has noted, OBP is what we need.

 

The team must not have much faith in Hammond. That doesn't exactly stun me, but it's a bit disappointing. Ford has given no indications that he'll hit, and we have better OF guys in the pipeline. It seems like a bit of overpayment if the Giants don't add cash, but I'm not crushed about losing either prospect.

 

This deal also revives a Brewers tradition of being a late (or the last) career stop for formerly good 2bs: Jody Reed, Bill Doran, Scott Fletcher, Dickie Thon (primarily a ss, but played some 2b for Milwaukee), Willie Randolph, Juan Bell if you want to get low-rent. We seemed to have one of those guys every year in the early 90s. Let's hope Durham gives the Brewers what they got from Randolph.

 

Greg.

[mothershipconnection]

If Durham is just red hot for the rest of the year, you could assume he'd decline arbitration and look for a 2 year deal worth more money, but otherwise I would not take the chance just to see if we maybe get a draft pick out of it. $6MM would have to look pretty attractive to him, and I don't see him turning it down, as not many teams would offer more than 1 year for a guy that close to collecting social security.

[RyDogg66]

Taschner is no help to this team Shouse and Stetter are better pitchers than him. Durham brings some leadership, defense at 2B, and a late game pinch runner if needed.

Leadership? Non tangible and likely overrated.

Defense - There may not be many guys worse than Durham in the league at 2b, including Weeks. He has no range to speak of.

 

Pinch Running - The reason his range stinks is partially because his legs are shot. He isnt Dave Roberts circa 2004.

 

He was had for one reason and one reason only, because he can swing it and Weeks has stunk all year long in the leadoff spot.

 

 

[monty57]

One thing that I think gets forgotten when ruminating about a platoon is that most players are better when they get consistent playing time. It's unlikely that Durham will keep up his pace vs. Righties or that Weeks will keep up his pace vs. lefties if they are on a strict platoon. This is particularly true of the RH bat, who sits 70-80% of the time.

 

I'm probably with the small group of posters who feel that the best move may be to send Rickie to AAA for a while (maybe even until Sept call-ups). Durham would be our new leadoff hitter and Counsell can be a defensive replacement if Durham's defense is indeed as bad as some are making it out to be. This raises the OBP in the leadoff spot considerably and gives us another LH bat vs. righties, and it keeps Weeks playing everyday. If he starts tearing it up in AAA, then he could be recalled and Durham could go to the banch.

 

As an off the topic bonus, if Weeks posts a 1.000 OPS in AAA, he may have more trade value in the offseason should Melvin & Co. decide to go with a Hardy / Escobar middle infield next year.

[splitterpfj]

One thing on this trade...

 

The assumption is that Taschner is not in the deal, because he was seen on the field today, while Durham wasn't. That doesn't necessarily mean Taschner is out:

 

Durham has had the flu, and he's also a "10 and 5" guy, so he would have had to be notified of the trade in advance, to get his approval.

 

Durham could be at home, getting over the flu, or he could be sitting somewhere with his agent, working out which team is paying him how much of what is owed him for the rest of this season.

 

Taschner wouldn't have to be notified until the deal is announced, which may not happen until after today's game is completed.

[JJHardy7]

Durham could be at home, getting over the flu, or he could be sitting somewhere with his agent, working out which team is paying him how much of what is owed him for the rest of this season.

 

I don't think they're worrying about who pays him...it's all guaranteed and it's something only the Giants and Brewers would be discussing.

 

I'm also part of the small camp that now wants to send Rickie to AAA to see if he can hit like he did at the end of last year. I'm so sick of Weeks' so called potential and I call it so called because if you don't live up to it you never had it. I hope he turns it on now, but I feel like I've been saying that for awhile now.

[Fredbear]

Could this posibly be an opening to include Weeks in a trade with another team that was holding out for him? Doug may have said that he wanted to make sure that he could get a replacement before sending weeks.

[MoneyballMan]

As an off the topic bonus, if Weeks posts a 1.000 OPS in AAA, he may have more trade value in the offseason should Melvin & Co. decide to go with a Hardy / Escobar middle infield next year.

 

I like the way you think.... Best case, you send him down and he rediscovers his .380-.390 OBP. Alternative case, he at least brings his trade value back up. I like it. And I don't think it's too off-topic as acquiring Durham gives us this flexibility/option.

[rluzinski]

Someone needs to use that Hardballtimes spreadsheet to find Durham's updated Marcel projection, so we can start using some realistic numbers when trying to guss what to expect from him this year. Seeing that he's had nearly a .400 OPS against righties this year his not a way to set realistic expectations.

 

Somehow, Melvin found a 2B who is expected to have even worse defense than Weeks? I'm thinking that we are going to hear a lot of cliches from Melvin when he tries to justify this move..

[MoneyballMan]

I'm thinking that we are going to hear a lot of cliches from Melvin when he tries to justify this move..

 

But we love baseball cliches! I agree that we may hear some to justify this one. But I still think it's an ok move.

[Invader3K]

Yeah, I'm not overly excited about this move. It provides a little extra depth and not much else, it seems.

[molitor fan]

Somehow, Melvin found a 2B who is expected to have even worse defense than Weeks? I'm thinking that we are going to hear a lot of cliches from Melvin when he tries to justify this move

 

Strangely, Utley was not available. Durham is perhaps the best lefty bench bat that could be had, and for a reasonable price. There are some really whacked out expectations flying around this forum.

[brains and braun]

I agree that it's a bit underwhelming, and that Durham is exceeding his norms, but our lead-off man is getting on at a .322 clip. Not good! Braun was 3-5 the other day with no RBI. With the pop we have in the middle of the order, we need to get more guys on base.

[kramnoj]

Somehow, Melvin found a 2B who is expected to have even worse defense than Weeks? I'm thinking that we are going to hear a lot of cliches from Melvin when he tries to justify this move..

 

Why would you only focus on the defense? Durham is insurance in case Weeks doesn't turn it around. If Weeks starts hitting better and Durham becomes a bench player, that's fine too, we gave away things we won't miss. Melvin may indeed spout cliches when talking about this, but he doesn't need to justify this, it was a good move to improve the team, if only marginally.

[endaround]

It depends what you want, as a lefty bat bench he's fine. As a regular 2B to replace Weeks, he'll give up more runs than he'll score over Weeks and with both Ellis and Grudzilanek available he's underwhelming.