If you are Doug Melvin: Sheets or Sabathia this offseason?

[BrewCrewBaseball]

I would like for them to re-sign CC. Most likely it will be Sheets. I'm willing to bet that Mark A wants to keep at least one of them to complement the young duo of Parra and Gallardo next season. He's willing to pay 20-22 million a year for one of these guys over 4 years before they have to trade away Prince. I could see them re-signing one for sure, especially if we trade away Sup somehow this offseason to a club that needs a guy like him

 

If we lose one we get 2 1st round picks, if we lose both we could get 4 or 5 of the top 35 picks in the draft next season so its not that bad. It all depends what Mark wants to do the next couple seasons....

 

I see them putting a 4 year 80-82 million dollar deal on the table for either one of them... Hopefully CC.... You might think I'm nuts, but if Mark A signed off on 22 million this season for Cam(8 mil), Gagne(10 mil), and Cappy(3.75 mil) I'm willing to bet he would make a deal to a player of their caliber. Cause I can guarantee none of those players will be on the roster next season. There's your 22 mil a year to keep one of those guys, which Mark is willing to spend...

[sbrylski]

I see them putting a 4 year 80-82 million dollar deal on the table for either one of them... Hopefully CC.... You might think I'm nuts, but if Mark A signed off on 22 million this season for Cam(8 mil), Gagne(10 mil), and Cappy(3.75 mil) I'm willing to bet he would make a deal to a plyer of their caliber.

 

I think you're nuts for thinking one of them would do anything but laugh at that offer.

[endaround]

Right now my guess at contracts would be 5 years/$90 m for Sheets and 7 years/$160 m for Sabathia

[BrewCrewBaseball]

I see them putting a 4 year 80-82 million dollar deal on the table for either one of them... Hopefully CC.... You might think I'm nuts, but if Mark A signed off on 22 million this season for Cam(8 mil), Gagne(10 mil), and Cappy(3.75 mil) I'm willing to bet he would make a deal to a plyer of their caliber.

 

I think you're nuts for thinking one of them would do anything but laugh at that offer.

So what do you think they will get? Only the Yankee's and Sox could offer them more... maybe the Cubs. Do you think they will be getting over 24 million? Do think it will happen... No one would sign for that amount except those two teams.... What are you thinking baseball mind????

[endaround]

The Dodgers will need a pitcher and have like $30 m coming off in bad contracts (Garciaparra, Kent, Berroa, ) plus Lowe with even more coming off next year with Schmidt and Jones.

[TheCrew07]

Yankess, Bo Sox, Mets, Dodgers, Cubs all come to mind. Maybe the Angels, maybe San Fran looking to make a splash, that would be a nice 1-3 over there.

 

BrewCrewBaseball... Sabathia already turned that deal down from Cleveland, if he wouldn't give them a discount, why would he give us one?

[Brian the Automator]

Neither ... take the plethora of draft picks and keep turning the carousel.

[istanbultaye]

I don't think Sheets would laugh at a 4 year 80 mil offer. I figure that's probably about right on a per year basis for the market. Just some other teams will likely offer that over more years (which is more guaranteed money). Of course, the market may skyrocket again this offseason (and probably will) leaving us thinking that 30 mil per year for sheets would be pretty cheap...

 

*edit* Also, of the two, I'd choose Sheets to resign because he would be cheaper than Sabathia (though still expensive) and because... I <3 Sheets.

[Ennder]

If we make the playoffs I think we sign 1 of em, I bet Sheets is the easier deal to get done.

 

If somehow we get hot and win the World Series I could see signing them both with the extra revenue.

[MickeyDavis]

Mark is only part of an ownership group, not the sole owner. And while they all obviously have money they bought into the team as an investment. And while some owners are willing to take some year to year losses knowing they will recoup it all when they eventually sell the team Mark has made it clear that his group is looking for a return on their investment every year.

 

They have done a great job of increasing payroll as revenue has increased but at some point revenue will reach a plateau. We are selling over 35,000 seats per game. There is room to go up, but not much. Ticket prices can go up but not much. We are locked into our radio and TV deals until after the 2012 season. We will be getting less in revenue sharing as our own revenue increases.

 

So while we may see an increase in a payroll the next year or two we will always have to make very careful financial decisions.

[Ennder]

Yeah but we lose a lot of money off the books next year and then when Suppan goes again in a couple years. Mark already stated they have room in the salary cap to trade for a high price pitcher if it was the right move.

 

Sheets + Gagne this year = Sheets next year.

 

Then you just have to find money for Sabathia for 2 years until Suppan is gone and then Suppan+salary cap to trade for high price guy = Sabathia.

 

I think there is room in there for both if we make a buttload in the playoffs this year. I doubt they will sign both though, my guess is they both walk if we miss the playoffs and 1 re-signs if we make them.

 

Obviously there still needs to be money found for Fielder, Hardy, Weeks, Hart etc getting pay raises as well but we have a lot of bloated contracts out there that will fall of the books. Mota, Counsell, maybe Cameron/Kendall etc.

[Tbadder]

I'd rather have CC, but I also think it's an impossible task. I doubt they sign Sheets, but if anyone is gonna take a 5 year 100 million dollar deal it's him. Too bad the Crew will never offer that kind of money. We just gotta hope good teams sign Bennie and CC so that they'll get 1st round picks and not 2nd round picks. Keep those draft picks coming,and for god sakes lock up Jack Z. somehow. I don't care how--pay him more than Melvin. He is the most essential person in the organization.

[razzzorsharp]

I am really interested in seeing how CC gels with the team. If you remember, he was one of players that talked about the lack of African American players in the league nowadays. He is now with Cameron, Weeks, Hall, and Fielder so it may give him more of a sense of belonging though I doubt that would make any semblance of an impact in terms of the amount of money he would take. It could be a deciding factor is all other things are equal though.

[kiwi brewer]

I'm starting to think Attanasio is wealthier far beyond what we have believed up until now. For that reason, I think anything is possiible.

 

What does Mark A's wealth have to do with anything?

His wealth has everything to do with this business called Major League Baseball. He seems like the kind of businessman who would approach Ben Sheets and sign him to the amount of years Sheets is interested in for possibly less than the "going rate" in the league right now. This obviously hinges on Sheets' desire/show of loyalty to stay with the Brewers. He seems like the kind of guy that would sit down with Mark A. and have a conversation about more than money and contracts.

 

I am feeling Sheets is back with the Crew knowing they want to win NOW (CC deal) with the likes of Gallardo and Parra coming back next year.

[TheCrew07]

You missed the point.

 

He's not paying Sheets out of his own pocket, the Brewers are paying Sheets. The Brewers have to remain fiscally responsible to remain a viable franchise. Therefore the owner's net worth is irrelevent. Big market teams have more money because they have a greater fan base to market too, so they get more money from everything from merchandising, to advertising, to tv contracts. Milwaukee has 1.6 million households... the next closest "small" market in the region is the Twins, and they have 3.2 households and do far worse. Milwaukee supports the team very well, but the revenue will plateau here, the Brewers have done everything they can do, there are only so many revenue streams available. If the revenue plateaus, that means the pool available for player salaries will also plateau.

 

Unless Mark A. starts his own TV network that can exist only to promote the Brewers and provide the team with a fantastic TV contract, I don't how the playoffs would significantly impact player salaries. They might have a nice net windfall from it, maybe double digit Millions, but that's certainly not something the team can plan into their yearly fiscal budget, the playoffs are never garunteed. Unless playoff shares are a thing of the past, all of the players get a bonus, it's not like the ownership just gets all of the money for the team.

 

We should be proud about how well the team is supported relative to the rest of the league, but we should also be realistic in our expectations.

 

edit. Ennder that's just 1 year for Sheets, how do you keep coming up with the money as the younger players hit arby? Prince will get a huge pay increase, as will Hart. If Weeks figures out how to hit for average his Arby number shoots up as well. There has to be a cushion... Where exactly do they come up with 22 million a year for Sabathia? You say it like it's a realistic possibility?

[sbrylski]

I see them putting a 4 year 80-82 million dollar deal on the table for either one of them... Hopefully CC.... You might think I'm nuts, but if Mark A signed off on 22 million this season for Cam(8 mil), Gagne(10 mil), and Cappy(3.75 mil) I'm willing to bet he would make a deal to a plyer of their caliber.

 

I think you're nuts for thinking one of them would do anything but laugh at that offer.

So what do you think they will get? Only the Yankee's and Sox could offer them more... maybe the Cubs. Do you think they will be getting over 24 million? Do think it will happen... No one would sign for that amount except those two teams.... What are you thinking baseball mind????

Sorry to sound a little arrogant there.

I think Sheets will be taking advantage of his free agency, looking for his last big contract. He'll want $20M+, and he's sure to get offers on the open market for longer than 4 years. If we can get him for $100M over 5 years, with the 5th a team option, I'd be thrilled - I think that's the very low end. If Sheets is simply looking to take the best offer, he could get $130M+ over 6 years if he plays the market right. Key for the Brewers will be to try to get him before Sabathia (most big market team's option A) signs somewhere, like they did getting Suppan before Barry Zito signed.

 

Sabathia could break the market: 7-8 years / $150M-$200M. Its been outrageous the last few free agency seasons, its not going to slow down. Every big market club will be in on Sabathia, I would think.

[kiwi brewer]

I didn't miss the point. We are just coming at this from different angles. You seem to be a lot more business savvy than I am, and I respect that and your viewpoint on the topic. Makes sense to me in the business sense - franchise, market size, etc. Totally understand.

 

I wasn't talking about Mark A's net worth. I should have clarified that. I was referring to his group of investors who own the team, Mark being a part of that group.

 

I'm just saying that I think business strategy aside, Mark A seems to be an aggressive, savvy businessman who may take a risk with the ownership's money to make Milwaukee proud by bringing back a player like Sheets who is the face of the organization.

 

Either way, I'm excited to see Milwaukee and Brewer's fans excited!

[phxMILWfan]

I think a lot of people are over looking things when they try to figure out how we could pay Sheets and or Sabathia. Like the fact that Prince can go to salary arbitration other guys will be in line for raises. I don't claim to know much about our payroll or what the team will do but it would be a miracle to keep either Sheets or Sabathia. They won't ever get both.

[phxMILWfan]

Incase anyone still thought the Brewers may resign Sabathia... From TH's article on jsonline.com

 

 

Reason to act quickly

The non-waiver trade deadline is not until July 31, but the Brewers figured the sooner they got Sabathia, the more starts they could get from him. They have no illusions of preventing him from leaving as a free agent after the season, another reason they didn't want to part with an additional high-level prospect.

 

There is also a financial component to adding Sabathia to the roster. The Brewers will have to pay nearly half of his $11 million salary, boosting their payroll near the $90 million level.

 

 

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=769685

[Team Canada]

On an emotional level, I'd love to see Sheets come back. On the other hand, I'm not that sure we'll want him pitching for us in 5 years, and I'd be stunned if he takes fewer years than that.

[rluzinski]

I say Sheets only because the Brewers at least have a reasonable chance of signing him if they want to, especially is Sheets is willing to take a small home town discount. Sabathia will go to the highest biddder and that bid will be insane.

[danzig6767]

I see them putting a 4 year 80-82 million dollar deal on the table for either one of them... Hopefully CC.... You might think I'm nuts, but if Mark A signed off on 22 million this season for Cam(8 mil), Gagne(10 mil), and Cappy(3.75 mil) I'm willing to bet he would make a deal to a plyer of their caliber.

 

I think you're nuts for thinking one of them would do anything but laugh at that offer.

So what do you think they will get? Only the Yankee's and Sox could offer them more... maybe the Cubs. Do you think they will be getting over 24 million? Do think it will happen... No one would sign for that amount except those two teams.... What are you thinking baseball mind????

Sorry to sound a little arrogant there.

I think Sheets will be taking advantage of his free agency, looking for his last big contract. He'll want $20M+, and he's sure to get offers on the open market for longer than 4 years. If we can get him for $100M over 5 years, with the 5th a team option, I'd be thrilled - I think that's the very low end. If Sheets is simply looking to take the best offer, he could get $130M+ over 6 years if he plays the market right. Key for the Brewers will be to try to get him before Sabathia (most big market team's option A) signs somewhere, like they did getting Suppan before Barry Zito signed.

 

Sabathia could break the market: 7-8 years / $150M-$200M. Its been outrageous the last few free agency seasons, its not going to slow down. Every big market club will be in on Sabathia, I would think.

 

 

I think the odds we sign either are very slim, but with that, i think you're going overboard in what these two will get in free agency. Given the terrible track record when teams have handed out 6-7 year massive contracts to pitchers, i think teams won't hand out what you've posted.

Sheets 6yr/130 million? I'd bet a few hundred dollars that Ben won't get six guaranteed years. I could see him at most getting 5 years guaranteed, but maybe with an option that vests into another year based on how many innings he throws. Sabathia i see getting six years, i can't fathom any team giving him 8 guaranteed years. Like Sheets, maybe Sabathia gets a year or two tacked on to the six years, but CC will likely have to meet certain criteria before before they become guaranteed years.

Unlike position players, both pitchers are one tear in their shoulder from being nearly worthless. Santana got six years from the Mets and that's what i see Sabathia getting.

 

[Never Outhustled]

Whichever team signs Sebathia this offseason is going to be disappointed. Its a simple rule in sports, never give a fat guy money.

[Oldcity]

I expect Sabathia to get a gigantic offer. I think the Brewers could get Sheets for 5 years/90 mil or 5 years/100 mil if that fifth year is an option. I'd be inclinded to sign him for that, but not for any more.

 

The Brewers need to ease off Ben's workload quickly, though. They're really playing with fire this season.

[cwolf2012]

If it's going to require more than what ends up being more than 17 mil a year to sign Sheets, I would bid him farewell and good luck. I want him back for 4 years, 70 mil, with a team option of 20 mil for a fifth year. That is pretty much the most I would be willing to pay him or any pitcher. I know we all love him and it seems that a lot of people on this board think 20 mil is not a big deal, but it is. That's an absolutely unreal amount of money to pay a pitcher who has missed about 25% of his starts with a mid-to small market team. Stop pretending this is play money. ARod, the best position player in the entirety of baseball makes 27 mil a year, and he plays every day. You really want to pay one player well over $5,000 a pitch and 1/4 our total payroll?

 

Take the two picks, trade Fielder at the deadline next year for young, cheap pitching. With at least one of those 2 picks, draft a 21 or 22 year old pitcher with good credentials.

 

Sabathia is gone no matter what. I don't care what his numbers are, I would never, ever, ever pay a pitcher 22 million dollars a year, and especially not for 5 or 6 years.